SilverScoober02

I think we can all respect that. I know I can.

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

So you equate resonable, logical reasoning to menstruation? You seem to take any chance you can to joke about how someone is being too serious. That, my friend, is pretty f'ing lame. What do you got for me? Do I have some uncomfortable object in my rectum? Do I have a catchy, titled, moniker cleverly made out of adjectives?

You're good at the jokes, but how about saying someting intelligent for your side of the argument?

Do you realize how much sh*t would be on the roads if everyone threw their trash out the window? I guess you don't care about that, right? Landfills have too much trash as it is. We need to spread it around everywhere.

Sorry, but just joking about it, even if you don't really do it, shows your lack of respect for an issue that we should all support. It still seems like you're refusing to agree with anything liberal, and continue to joke about littering as to keep up your 'cool,' 'tough,' 'I deal with more important things' soldier attitude.

and STi, Sure the soldiers should follow orders and such, but that doesn't mean the gov't has bought their minds. Pretending like everything is just fine is only hindering our own efforts. And not telling the full truth to new enlistees [by waiving your right to think for yourself, as you said] would sound even more involuntary than I explained before. So, as for the topic of this thread, I see exactly what these people are upset about.

If you still think it's just a bunch of skirt and beanie wearing dirties complainig, you have a lot to learn.

1reguL8NSTi

[QUOTE=scoobsport98]

and STi, Sure the soldiers should follow orders and such, but that doesn't mean the gov't has bought their minds. Pretending like everything is just fine is only hindering our own efforts. And not telling the full truth to new enlistees [by waiving your right to think for yourself, as you said] would sound even more involuntary than I explained before. So, as for the topic of this thread, I see exactly what these people are upset about. QUOTE]

We're at war, of course things aren't "fine". This country was founded on taking the hard right over the easy wrong. It may be rough now just as all worthwhile endeavors are in their infancy but it will pay off in the end. During the Revolutionary War many people didn't want us to fight. Had that happened we would be part of parliamentary rule with a figurehead King eating scrumpets. I'm not really sure if you disagree with the war entirely or what aspects you dislike (I would appreciate a little clarification) but I feel it's a rough time that we'll have to endure to get the results we want. Trust me, if I disagreed with the war I'd be voicing my opinion as I am one of the people who is directly affected by its existance. I can promise you there are few soldiers who disagree with the war and as long as that is the case I think it's a pretty legit cause. I know a lot of people say "What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?" and that is understandable. Did Iraq aid Bin Laden in orchestrating the attacks? Maybe, maybe not. That's not the concern. The fact of the matter is that Saddam was a snake in the grass with lethal potential. As soon as he had a means to strike American's I feel he would have done it. Even if he was happy sleeping in his palace's every night and had no intention of attacking America we still could have justified the war as having liberated the Iraqi people from a tyrant. Germany in WWII is a prime example. Would Hitler have attacked America given the oppurtunity? Yes, most definetly. Would he have searched for this oppurtunity? Possibly. We're there people suffering under his rule? Absolutely. That is justification enough for me to go to war.

Unregistered

What are you talking about? It was proven afterwards that Iraq had no way to reach us with any type of weapons. On top of this Saddam knew that the second he attacked us he would be destroyed uterly and rightfully, with the full support of the American people. On top of this NO WMD WHERE FOUND. You can't compare Sadam to Germany, I'd go into it but no time. But if you are in it to liberate people from tyrants their are a lot worse people than Saddam.

scoobsport98

iTrader: (5)

I agree with lots of what you say here. But you aren't addressing my point whatsoever. Of course we should do what we can to finish the job now that we're there, but the premise we went on (imminent threat of WMD's) was never substantiated. I'm not blaming congress or the president alone, because it was the intelligence that was wrong. But the buck's gotta stop somewhere, and it's not a pile of papers. You say, "what does iraq have to do with 9/11?" isn't the concern. Why not? I see it as quite the concern. We can't count on the ends to justify the means- even though it may- we have to realize when we defiantly go after someone, leaving other countries behind, that we are alienating ourselves from thge rest of the world who doesn't understand our ways.

So, you think it's fine that the president continues to lie to us about the war on terror? We should just trust that the military will be able to complete their job and extenguish terror? Sorry, but it looks to me that we've stirred up quite the sh*tstorm. At some point, we have to be more realistic than optimistic, and asses the situation objectively, assessing the worldwide impact our actions are having.

Personally, I don't think ignorance is bliss. It can get your *** killed, if you're not careful.





...and remember- I'm not personally advocating we pull out- I'm simply trying to explain a point you can't seem to grasp-So please be careful about assumnptions implied about me in any response you may have.

dub2w

werd. but hey, lemmings need a leader!

1reguL8NSTi

I'm not making any assumptions of you at all. So far you've held your own very well and you've been entirely professional about it the whole time we've been discussing it. I don't think I am addressing your point because this thread has gone so far off topic so I'm not really sure what to respond to. As far as Bush lying to us about the war on terror I'm not really sure when he lied to us? I'm sure having said that I will be stereotyped as a mindless follower of the Bush regime but I have stress again that just because I support the Administration (which is more than just the President) doesn't mean I can't think for myself as so many presume. I agree that the intel we had prior to going in did not substantiate the reason (if your going to pick a reason to attack at least make it legit) to invade Iraq at all. I think if they would have said "We believe that if Saddam is giving the potential to attack us with a WMD he will and this is a preemptive effort to thwart such attacks" we could have avoided this entire, finger pointing mess. You say we have to be more realistic than optimistic and I think assuming that leaving Iraq alone would not result in a strike on America is a little to optimistic. The war is a reality now and the only way to finish it successfully is to grit and bear it until we're through. Like I said before all worthwhile endeavors have their hardship.

gpatmac

iTrader: (3)

How long do y'all think certain Muslim factions' resentment towards to west has been brewing?

Let's just say that 9/11 wasn't wholly successful. What would the total picture of terrorist activity look like right now? What will it look like if the military, in 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, continues to accomplish their goals?

I think we're on track. We're experiencing mainly victory and but with some setbacks. We're doing things largely effectively and efficiently but are making mistakes too.

Who here thinks we should have asked the Al Queda and the fundamental Suni's to the diplomatic table? Who thinks that would have solved anything.

Who here is ready to run for president because they think that they have the right outlook and many of the answers?

Maybe I need to post another thread asking how YOU would solve this problem.