And I'm waiting for you to carjack me while on a bleach bender while swearing at the top of your lungs...


I'm not trying to dictate to you your 'final destination.' But I will reiterate that protecting the environment in your personal life is as easy and potentially far more beneficial as wearing your seat belt. But if your the type who really is that near sighted...that's called being evangelical isn't it?

 

I'm waiting for Hillary Duff to show up in my bed naked. I guess we're all waiting for different things.

 

I think he's getting the point- it would just be too hard for him to admit it now, as regul8STi has said before.

If someone makes a good point in an argument with me, I acknoledge it, I don't dodge it or try to pick it apart. I don't know where you (STi) say that nobody is able to admit they were wrong. That seems to be a problem with the current admin, and right wingers in general. It also seems that your disrespect for the environment is directly tied to your disrespect for liberals. Just because they support it and claim it as 'their' issue, you seem to want to have nothing to do with it. This is one of the lamest reasons to not support something- and once you do it, you are no more than a puppet of the 'side' you represent.

Perpetuating a partisan attitude is one of the most corrosive things you could do to this country. When one side claims issues as their own, and the opposite side promptly disregards and sh*ts on them, just for the sake of opposing the opposing side, we will always be divided. We need to realize that everyone wants the same thing for the most part- but we have different priorities. There are many fragile, universal things (like the environment) that shouldn't be tossed around and played with as a political issue- but I guess everything is a political issue nowdays... so is there no hope for environmentalists, should they give up their efforts?

You'll be thanking them someday... if not you, your children or grandchildren.

But I'm a uber-liberal with no sense of humor- so don't listen to me.

 

I totally agree with you said about America being divided just for the sake of opposition. I too, will be the first to admit when I am at fault or wrong. I agree that this administration has made it's mistakes just as any administration has. I'm not pro-Bush nor am I pro- liberal, etc. I support Bush simply because he's the man in charge and ultimately in charge of me. If Kerry were in charge I would support him too. Regardless of who is in office they will do things I approve of and things I don't. It's inevitable. I think all Americans need to put their labels down and quit believing what their fathers and friends believe and start deciding for themselves. Ignorance is the biggest problem facing America today because so many people draw conclusions without considering the task at hand and the facts. Usually the most opinionated people in politics are also the least informed. If they took the time to see an issue from both sides they could probably make a rational conclusion on what needs to be done but instead they side with their "label" and let their peers decided for them. Regardless of what party you are in 99.9% of politicans are doing what they feel is right for America, they just have different approaches in doing it.

 

This is the only point I disagree on... We are supposed to be in charge of him. A hard-line facist government (or communist for that matter) would love to have every one of their citizens as submissive as yourself. If you say people should start thinking for themselves, saddle up, partner.

Many of us seem to forget our country was founded on rebellion from the British crown, and they created a government where the power was supposed to be with the people (hence, a democracy).

Bush may be the most prominent figure representing our government, but in reality, just like any other president, he's not, or shouldn't be, 'in charge' as much as you may think.

I'm not advocating protests against the government or blantant disrespect, you can still support in general and disagree on certain things, IMHO.


But everything else you said agrees with my view completely- you surprised me with your logical reasoning! Lets have more of that!

...but then you'll be a liberal- shucks...

 

The only thing the president is completely and solely in charge of is the military in times of war.

 

I'm not rebelling against Bush for a very simple reason. We're kind of stuck with him for the next few years and even if I were to start such a rebellion as to get him impeached........name me a better alternative. I didn't vote for Kerry for one soldier reason: he tried to appeal himself to everyone and in doing so lost my vote. If he would have stuck to his guns on the issues he built his campaign on in the beginning he'd have had my vote. I take someone's word very seriously and when they go back on it they lose a lot of credibility in my eyes. As elementary as Bush's word may be (quite literally) you can pretty much trust that he'll stick to it. Now don't mistake me here, I'm not saying that word will be the right one, but you can pretty much rest assured that it will be pursued until doom's day. I think the war in Iraq now is evidence of that.
It's hard for me to really draw a solid line on political stance because I am downright conservative on some issues and liberal on others so in these political forums you'll have to bear with me as it takes a lot of explaining for me to get my point of view across. I respect your opinion and I know you are obviously not satisfied with Bush but you have to think about what else could be getting done. You may say Bush is a terrible President but you have to admit, he's got on of the best cabinets behind him a president has ever had and thank God for that or we'd be in a hell of a predicament.

 

You still don't get it. You can disagree, protest and all that- and that may just get the president to change his ways. It's not his way or the highway, he really has little personal input on what should be done and how things should be handled. The president is supposed to carry out the will of the people. If the people disagree with how he is handling things, it would be doing him a dis-service to be quiet and let him assume everyone supports him. To use an extreme analagy, if Bush were driving a van, with all of us inside, and heading directly toward a cliff, would you speak up and get his attention? Would you wait for one of us liberals to yell at him? Or would you just shut up and ride it out, hoping for the best and assuming you have no control over the situation?

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

So, I'm thinking more and more that if we had another election today, Bush would have no chance. I'm sure a decent number of people who voted for Bush have thought twice about thier choice. But I can't say the same about those who voted against Bush. I don't see him doing anything to gain their support, as Kerry would have been forced to do with the conservative regions of the country. Even Salty has mentioned how Bush's campaign made good use of some lies and manipulated facts.

WARNING to those allergic to the left: Don't think. You may have adverse reactions...

 

Man I've got to give it you. You are comical. The main issue I have with Bush is the whole philosophy on terrorism. I believe in the war, I really do. I honestly feel that if we were not in Iraq and Afganistan we would have been attacked again as the enemy would be able to consolidate again and formulate a new plan of attack. It's basic martial theory. I've seen in on smaller scale a million times. As soon as you displace someone and you get them on the move it's hard for them to regroup. As soon as you let up expect complications in one form or another. Sure the war is an awful way of protecting ourselves but its the only alternative. I don't agree with how the war is being fought but it is necessary. Give me 20 years when I'm a General with a little more pull and I'll do my best to change the way we fight. Let's face it, the "WAR ON TERROR" is pretty much the main thing on the politcal agenda these days (even though we should be paying a lot more attention to the economy then we are as no broke nation can fight a war) and it is something I believe we are doing pretty close to correctly. Criticize me on that if you want but I think this war, however terrible and costly it may be, will pay off in the long run. I don't want my children to grow up in a place where they'll see their father crying over a friend who died fighting insurgents.

 

Okay, then why refuse to question his leadership?

"only alternative"? Isn't that an oxymoron? Alternative to what? Many people (left and right) would disagree that pre-emptive war on that particualr country was the best option to protect ourselves. We've had quite the rough journey in our efforts there thus far- I guarantee you Rummy and his drinking buddies thought we would have had much less casualties than we have actually suffered to date.

So, you're gonna wait 20 years to voice your opinion? And you almost killed me with this one: "pretty close to correctly"??? PLLEASE! Shouldn't we strive to do things CORRECTLY?

I guess Bush was a "C" student...


Agreed. But as you said above, when we let up, we should expect things to go to sh*t again... so, Do we need to stay there forever?

 

If you enlist or agree to receive a commission, you take an oath the obey the orders of the President of the United States of America.

If you take that oath freely, then you imply that you support the Pres or at least waive your right, so long as you're receiving a paycheck, to publicly speak against the administration.

Hey, I didn't give up. I thought of y'all today as I threw my Rally's cup out of my window. I've been working pretty long hours lately.

 

No, we stay there until the job is done and the Iraqi people can defend themselves. We backed out early once when the Afgans defeated the Russians and they resented us for using them up. Approx. 20 years later they end up fighting us with our own weapons. I've said a million times, pulling out is nothing but a mess (hahaha that still cracks me up). There is another alternative and that would be just packing up and getting out. That'd do nothing but waste almost 2000 lives and cause another breeding ground for terrorists just like Afganistan was. I said "pretty close to correctly" because I feel the war should be fought a little differently. I'm not in charge though so I'll have to deal with what they feel is the right way to do it. I know you are going to say that I'm a submissive, mindless grunt who is simply a tool for higher brass and in a way that cynical attitude is kind of right. Like gpatmac said, I took my oath and swore to serve under my commander and chief until death do we part, so help me God. The power given to officers is appointed directly by the President, in fact my commissioning certificate is signed by W himself.

About questioning his leadership, given the oath again, I'm not the one to do that. I think every subordinate questions his leaders decisions to a degree but no so much that he refuses to carry them out. All I can tell you about the war is that I think it is a worth while cause and I will support until I am no longer fit to do so, until I am relieved or until it gets the best of me. Regardless of which happens, I'll be proud I served.

 

Oh god, you are SO misinformed. How, please do tell me, was Iraq involved in 9/11 in anyway shape or form? Please tell me this since Jr and the rest of them would LOVE to know as much as me.

Jesus I can't believe this bull**** is still being spread!

 

Better watch it we all know that Cops single out ricers! They could catch your *** and fine you around 200 dollars for your first offense.

 

Are you having a little extra flow tonight? Got a little too much sand in the clam?