Askmuslims.com
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Thanks for posting some history... people forget that the the crusades were a response to the Muslim conquests.
Muslims were actually defending themselves by conducting a pre-emptive strike against Christian terrorists & radicalized insurgents.
Originally Posted by dub2w
Im jumping into this discussion mid-stream, but there is one thing I wanted to interject:
The Muslim world needs to do more to curb their radical elements. Until they do, there will be whole lot of pissed off people who hate Muslims. Im not commenting on the fairness of this reaction, but it is the truth.
The Muslim world needs to do more to curb their radical elements. Until they do, there will be whole lot of pissed off people who hate Muslims. Im not commenting on the fairness of this reaction, but it is the truth.
This thread went to **** as soon as history was brought up, nobody was alive then so get over it, christians killed muslims, muslims killed christians, hindus killed muslims balh blah blah
who ****ing cares about **** that happened 500+ years ago. To rational thinking people what happened in the past is irrelevant, do you hate germans because there were many that supported hitler? Were talking about what is going on presantly, not making excuses for what is going on today by bringing up **** that happened 20, 50, 100 or a thousand years ago.
who ****ing cares about **** that happened 500+ years ago. To rational thinking people what happened in the past is irrelevant, do you hate germans because there were many that supported hitler? Were talking about what is going on presantly, not making excuses for what is going on today by bringing up **** that happened 20, 50, 100 or a thousand years ago.
Originally Posted by svxr8dr
Tell it to Osama he brings up the crusdaes all the time:
Mind you he isn't the only one who brings up the past. I just don't see how you can denounce an action and in the same sentance say "but by the way it's your fault, you brought this on yourself" a statement I've seen many U.S. and european clerics and even westerners make. It's the same thing as somebody like Tom Tancredo wanting to glass from sand as an excuse fer retaliation.
Last edited by VIBEELEVEN; Jul 21, 2005 at 12:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
Thanks dub, you hit the nail on the head. You did see clerics denouncing terrorist attacks after 9/11, but in the same breath you also saw SOME of them blaming western society, U.S. foriegn policy etc... There is no excuse for killing poeple , especially innocent civilians. All I've been trying to say throught this whole thread is that you don't see a whole lot of people strongly condemning these actions because thier religeon is being hijacked by violent radical extremists. But somehow I was labeled as an anti islam bigot by two people in particular.
Get some ***** and name names. If you were referring to me as one of the two (I can't see who else you would be referring to), please quote me labeling you as an anti-islam bigot. My tiff was solely with svx's remarks and attitude - if you think it was also directed at you, well, maybe it should have been.
...back on track...
How do you propose the peaceful muslims squelch the extremism while there are so many things (the FOXNEWS attitude in particular) perpetuating it? If you think that extremists are 'hijacking' the religion, that would only be from your view. Your limited experience with Islam has been mostly negative, I take it. You give the extremists too much credit by saying that they have taken the religion from the peaceful majority, and are only perpetuating this 'hijacking' by disregarding the peaceful majority and their views (although, they are easy to discard, given the media's attention on muslim extremists) If you had more personal experience with muslims, not just what you see on TV, you may have a different take on the whole shpiel.
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I only called people biggoted who claimed they would give the website a fair read, but instead jumped on it as being "bs propaganda" almost immediatly after. After I pointed that out, you all started in with the symantic whinning; "But they don't explain why they suck...they don't ask why their fellow Muslims are a$$holes...they don't condemn themselves..." Those are charged, misleading questions to ask of a website who's purpose is to objectively communicate aspects of a religion that none of us understand very well.
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
Tell it to Osama he brings up the crusades all the time:
September 23, 2001 - "We hope that these brothers (Muslim casualties in Pakistan) are among the first martyrs in Islam's battle in this era against the new Christian-Jewish crusade led by the big crusader Bush under the flag of the Cross; this battle is considered one of Islam's battles...
We ask Allah to make him (Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar) victorious over the forces of infidels and tyranny, and to crush the new Christian-Jewish crusade on the land of Pakistan and Afghanistan...
May 1998 - Bin Laden issued a statement entitled "The Nuclear Bomb of Islam," under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Fighting the Jews and Crusaders," in which he stated that "it is the duty of Muslims to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the enemies of God."
February 1998 - Under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders," bin Laden endorsed a fatwa, religious decree, to call for the liberation of Muslim holy places in Saudi Arabia and Israel, as well as the death of Americans and their allies. The decree says, "These crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger and Muslims."
August 1996 - Bin Laden says to the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper that the Saudis have a "legitimate right" to attack the5,000 American military personnel stationed in Saudi Arabia. "The presence of the American crusader armed forces in the countries of the Islamic Gulf is the greatest danger and the biggest harm that threatens the world’s largest oil reserves… The infidels must be thrown out of the Arabian Peninsula."
August 1996 - Bin Laden issued a Declaration of jihad, holy war, entitled: "Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula."
September 23, 2001 - "We hope that these brothers (Muslim casualties in Pakistan) are among the first martyrs in Islam's battle in this era against the new Christian-Jewish crusade led by the big crusader Bush under the flag of the Cross; this battle is considered one of Islam's battles...
We ask Allah to make him (Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar) victorious over the forces of infidels and tyranny, and to crush the new Christian-Jewish crusade on the land of Pakistan and Afghanistan...
May 1998 - Bin Laden issued a statement entitled "The Nuclear Bomb of Islam," under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Fighting the Jews and Crusaders," in which he stated that "it is the duty of Muslims to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the enemies of God."
February 1998 - Under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders," bin Laden endorsed a fatwa, religious decree, to call for the liberation of Muslim holy places in Saudi Arabia and Israel, as well as the death of Americans and their allies. The decree says, "These crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on God, his messenger and Muslims."
August 1996 - Bin Laden says to the London-based al-Quds al-Arabi newspaper that the Saudis have a "legitimate right" to attack the5,000 American military personnel stationed in Saudi Arabia. "The presence of the American crusader armed forces in the countries of the Islamic Gulf is the greatest danger and the biggest harm that threatens the world’s largest oil reserves… The infidels must be thrown out of the Arabian Peninsula."
August 1996 - Bin Laden issued a Declaration of jihad, holy war, entitled: "Message from Osama bin Laden to his Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula."
Just a thought... but don't you think there are plenty of neo-con christians who would lke to expel all muslims from the US?
Just because their views aren't recorded and plastered all over the mid-east (like UBL's are here), it doesn't make us that much different ideologically.
Originally Posted by scoobsport98
Get some ***** and name names. If you were referring to me as one of the two (I can't see who else you would be referring to), please quote me labeling you as an anti-islam bigot. My tiff was solely with svx's remarks and attitude - if you think it was also directed at you, well, maybe it should have been.
Originally Posted by MVWRX
Reading your reactions to this website makes me think you (Oaf and Vibe) really are anti-Islamic. At least Salty points out that this FAQ may very well be true for the majority of Islamic people.
Originally Posted by scoobsport98
- saved me some effort... thanks
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
You use the same defense that battered women do:
With each new beating, the scarred and bruised victims of spousal abuse tend to excuse and rationalize the actions of their tormentors. A stubborn unwillingness to accept the proposition that their partners are violent louts plunges these woeful women into a morass of self-deception that spawns only further violence.
With each new beating, the scarred and bruised victims of spousal abuse tend to excuse and rationalize the actions of their tormentors. A stubborn unwillingness to accept the proposition that their partners are violent louts plunges these woeful women into a morass of self-deception that spawns only further violence.
I'm not the one who is self-decieved. So are you conceding that there is no possible way to end this conflict besides brute force (equated to killing the abusive spose in your analagy)? I guess we've chosen that route.
But we must remember, spontaneous, aggressive actions (like killing your spouse) have consequences, both good and bad, predictable and unpredictable.
Originally Posted by scoobsport98
What does go on on ALMOST every islamic gov't on the face of the earth? I sure as hell don't know. Please inform us. You seem to have direct experience, a wealth of knowledge, or a combination... please share.
Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
The reason this was called propaganda is because the "faq's" contradict what goes on in ALMOST evry islamic government on the face of the earth, why is that mr. flysky?
womens rights?
Last edited by VIBEELEVEN; Jul 21, 2005 at 01:52 PM.
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Originally Posted by svxr8dr
I really doubt there is some secret clubhouse of "Christian Neocons" figuring out how to expel Muslims from the U.S.
Eggs Akley... Our radicals aren't organized and don't have their propagandist messages spread throughout the world... therefore they don't exist?
Try speaking to the main point for once, rather than hingeing on some insignificant detail.
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Originally Posted by scoobsport98
Try speaking to the main point for once, rather than hingeing on some insignificant detail.
Yes, please do.
When have I ever called you a neo-con, a religious zealot, or any of that. I've called you one thing once, a biggot against Islam. And the more you espouse your beliefs regarding that religion, the more I appear to have been correct.
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Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
what goes on in ALMOST every islamic government on the face of the earth,
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Originally Posted by scoobsport98
What does go on on ALMOST every islamic gov't on the face of the earth? I sure as hell don't know. Please inform us. You seem to have direct experience, a wealth of knowledge, or a combination... please share.
Seriously. Who here has lived in an Islamic country? Ok...who has been to one (in a non-military role...). Alright, so who's been making assumptions about life in an Islamic country?
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
When have I ever called you (svx, I'm guessing) a neo-con, a religious zealot, or any of that. I've called you one thing once, a biggot against Islam. And the more you espouse your beliefs regarding that religion, the more I appear to have been correct.