New STi in Reno

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Old May 16, 2008 | 03:36 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by irrational x
if an experienced tuner told me openECU tuning blows allot of motors id take that as advise not opinions... especially when he says that most of his motor work comes from such tunes. opinions are kinda like *******s (such as yourself), and SRiC is full up on both opinions and *******s so please avoid posting if you dont have anything legitimate to contribute.

so far.... your just spreading misinformation... probably due to the fact that you have no reading comprehension skills. anyone that actually read the thread would not have made such a pointless and misguided post as yours.
Ok. Well openecu tuning doesn't blow motors, tuners mis-using the software are the ones causing the problems. Some people who don’t understand anything about programming or how this works may not like it, but the fact is there’s quite a few people using it from the STI community. Yeah, your photo was a really legitimate contribution. Get off your high horse pal, your posting for the same reason I am.
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:38 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
Ok. Well openecu tuning doesn't blow motors, tuners mis-using the software are the ones causing the problems. Some people who don’t understand anything about programming or how this works may not like it, but the fact is there’s quite a few people using it from the STI community. Yeah, your photo was a really legitimate contribution. Get off your high horse pal, your posting for the same reason I am.
please see the OP

kthx
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:39 PM
  #33  
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On a serious note, there are ways to use Cobb and protuners such as Paul without breaking the bank. Grab a second-hand accessport, go stage1, stage2, enjoy it for a little while and when you have the fundages, go in for a protune.

I had contemplated for a long time and even did a ton of research on the whole XPT flashing but ended up going the Cobb route. Safe is letting a pro do it, especially if you just picked up a "beautiful 2006 STi."

Wouldn't want it be a beautiful 2006 STi that's borked sitting in your garage waiting for "knowledgable" forum members to "lend hands."
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:41 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by soggynoodles
yeah, just like that, except with more than that one finger...
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:41 PM
  #35  
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OK, lets take it down a notch and get back on track. I would like to welcome the OP and as let you know you have many good tuning and tuner options.

Personally, I dont think there is something specifically wrong with the software of opensource but rather that lack of quality tuners that are willing to use it. It offers them no protection or assurance which is completely fair. Be very careful about using random flashes on your car. As Paul mentioned, it can lead to very bad things that may cost you much more than a good tune would have.

As far as vendor soliciting, this is a public section, and all can input their opinion. Paul is in fact a sponsor of this section and receives the extra exposure that comes from being listing on the section, however that is where it ends being that this was not a thread started by him. That said, lets not start a pissing match for business and be a little courteous of others, both members and vendors.
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:42 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by juicy
On a serious note, there are ways to use Cobb and protuners such as Paul without breaking the bank. Grab a second-hand accessport, go stage1, stage2, enjoy it for a little while and when you have the fundages, go in for a protune.
This is how I did it. My first ECU reflash to stage 1 was an AccessECU I bought from Xevious on the cheap so he could go ECUTek. I upgraded to an AP later when I had the $$.
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:43 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by juicy
On a serious note, there are ways to use Cobb and protuners such as Paul without breaking the bank. Grab a second-hand accessport, go stage1, stage2, enjoy it for a little while and when you have the fundages, go in for a protune.
Troof...that's my plan (no-hook couch-owner here).
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:45 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by nachomc
This is how I did it. My first ECU reflash to stage 1 was an AccessECU I bought from Xevious on the cheap so he could go ECUTek. I upgraded to an AP later when I had the $$.
when you say "cheap" you mean "threaten my life and make me sell you my ECU at a discounted price so I have a place to live" type of deal.
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:50 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by slow04wrx
Ok. Well openecu tuning doesn't blow motors, tuners mis-using the software are the ones causing the problems. Some people who don’t understand anything about programming or how this works may not like it, but the fact is there’s quite a few people using it from the STI community.
plenty of people drive drunk. that doesn't make it a responsible and informed decision.

Originally Posted by slow04wrx
Yeah, your photo was a really legitimate contribution.
my pic was extremely relevant. don't pass judgment on something you have no knowledge of. I don't come into taco bell and tell you how to cook the tacos, do i?
Originally Posted by slow04wrx
Get off your high horse pal, your posting for the same reason I am.
youre bored at work too? ****ing kids these days.
Old May 16, 2008 | 03:55 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Ego13
Not sure how many Reno folks are on here but I just picked up a beautiful 2006 STi and was curious if anyone around town has the necessary equipment to apply the XPT Stage 1 flashes.

I was considering buying it but as I don't currently even use a laptop I don't have one therefore buying the cable would be kind of a waste if I could just borrow someone's time and buy them a couple beers for their time.

Anyhow.....drop me a PM if you might be interested.
back to thread. i personally bought a cheap AP online and a drop in filter and went from there.
Old May 16, 2008 | 04:21 PM
  #41  
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Ego13: Another recommendation would be to drive a STI for a few months, then when it starts to feel "slow", go for the AP and protune.

My WRX felt really quick for a long time, then I bought bigger rimzzz, that made it feel slow, so that's when I decided to go for the AP to give my WRX a little oomph.

You just bought an STI, don't be cheap with the tune.
Old May 16, 2008 | 04:22 PM
  #42  
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Here's my personal take on the various tuning software options available for the Subaru platform. Currently there are various options available to tuners: Cobb, Ecutek, EcuEdit, Enginuity/RomRaider, EcuFlash and various piggy backs.

First, piggy backs are only a good option if there is no good reflashing option available. Reflashing gives the tuner much more control and allows for better results with more safety built in. So considering there are many reflash options available, I'll toss out the piggy backs right away.

Now as far as the various reflashing options. In the end they all provide access to many of the same maps and parameters within the OEM ecu. This means that if a tuner is comfortable using any one of these options, they will eventually get the same results as they would with any of the other software. That being said, some of the software has definite advantages in terms of the tuning process.

Cobb, for example, offers real time tuning on many of the maps. This makes it easier and quicker to dial in a good tune than with the other options. Cobb also offers the best support for its tuners I've ever seen in this industry. It also offers some great advantages for people looking for multiple maps since the AP can quickly and easily change between custom tuned maps. Many people don't NEED the AP, however, and end up keeping it in their closets unless they need it for a new tune. At that point it just becomes a very expensive dongle they must own in order to get tuned. This is the biggest disadvantage to the Cobb platform IMO.

Ecutek has been around the longest and arguably gives access to the most maps and parameters within the ECU. Their software is also built fairly well and there is some level of support associated with it. With Ecutek, the customer must purchase a license that is non-transferable to any other ECU. They are also a foreign company and somewhat difficult to deal with. Considering the pricing of their licenses and business structure, Ecutek is largely obsolete at this point IMO. The only real positive is their experience in the field.

EcuEdit is another commercial software package that is very similar to Ecutek in terms of user interface and work flow. There is no license structure, however, and the software is much cheaper. This means that the customer doesn't have to purchase anything, he just pays for the tuning time. As a tuner, you do have to make some sacrifices, however. The level of support for this software is nowhere near that of Ecutek or Cobb. The tuner must spend more time messing with map definitions, doing more research, and discovering new maps and parameters on his own. There is also no level of protection for the tuner's final work with this software. The map can be pulled by anyone else with the right tools. In this sense, this software is much more similar to the free open source options.

Now we get to EcuFlash and RomRaider/Enginuity. This software is truly free and available for download by anyone brave enough to play with it. It was developed by DIY type of people who are passionate about engine management and software in general. This software has evolved greatly from its meager beginnings and is really starting to catch up to other software like Ecutek and EcuEdit in terms of functionality. Again, there is no real support for this software outside of the various online communities. That being said, there is a wealth of information out there and the community is fairly large and active enough to allow most tuners to figure things out for themselves. The disadvantages are again, no real support structure and no protection for the tuner's work. It also takes a good deal more time to set things up and get everything working properly to allow the tuner to be efficient with his time.

Different communities have adopted different options as a standard. The Subaru community has had commercial tuning support for a very long time and has gotten used to it. The tuners are comfortable with the tools and the level of support is awesome. From this perspective its very difficult for a tuner to justify offering services with any other tools that may be more difficult to use and take more time to get comfortable with. Other communities, like the Evo community for example, adopted the cheaper, open source tools very early on before other options were easily available. Evo tuners have learned to use these tools efficiently and continue to do so with great success. Its all a matter of perspective in the end.

I personally enjoy playing around with the various options available and decide what's worth using and what isn't. I used to use Ecutek before anything else was available. Then Cobb came out with ProTuner and offered some key advantages that made using Ecutek somewhat pointless, so I ended up switching most of my tuning to ProTuner. As the open source and other tuning software has been evolving, I've been playing around with it as well. Until recently, most of this software was not at a point where I would feel comfortable using it professionally. More recently, however, these options have been making great advances and I've even started offering OpenEcu tuning services for Evo applications. The more experience I gain using these options with Evos, the closer I come to possibly offering services with them to the Subaru community. Again, with the cheaper or free options, there is much more time investment in the initial setup of the software and you have to do much more independent research and work to gain the same level of control as you would with the more commercial options, so I wouldn't blame any tuner for not jumping on the open source bandwagon.

In the end, its up to the tuner to get the car running well. He will choose the tools he's the most comfortable with to do the job right. All of these options provide a slightly different means to the same end. Some take more initial time investment, and others take more initial monetary investment. In the end we have to try to offer what is best for the customer and allows us to stay in business at the same time.

The main point is that the tune itself is what will determine how well the car runs, not necessarily the tuning tools. If you run ANY base maps (Cobb, XPT, or otherwise), you should make sure that your specific car is running safely and as expected. Base maps are a bit of a gamble no matter whose base map you run, some more than others of course. A custom tune by a good tuner will be better than any base map, no matter what reflashing tools are used.

Thanks

Last edited by EQ Tuning; May 16, 2008 at 04:26 PM.
Old May 16, 2008 | 05:38 PM
  #43  
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Trust me, I know the "pay to play" line all too well. I traded in my 04 R32 which is definitely one car that really plays into that line.

My biggest concern was gone over by Ed already. The AP that you "must" buy to get the stage 1/2 maps is really just an extra item until you have someone that can and will utilize it to work on a custom (read Pro) tune for your vehicle. I got all that and I'm partially ok with it. The leap I'm not willing to take, too easily at least, is that somehow the Cobb OTC tunes for 1/2 are so drastically different than many of the OTC options from open source venues. There seem to be some really accomplished open source tuners with tried and tested base tunes.

Every forum I have visited so far has their "accepted mod list" or "accepted tune list" and most of the users are xenophobic of anything that isn't within that list, even when they haven't actually used or experienced it. I'm not saying this is the case 100% here but it seems there could be a taste of it.

I don't want to come off as argumentative (as I'm sure I do) or ungrateful, I just want to get as much of a view of the picture as I can.

Again....thanks for all the replies thus far and all of the advice. I don't plan on fubar'ing myself, just want to make sure I make an informed decision.
Old May 16, 2008 | 06:00 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Ego13
Trust me, I know the "pay to play" line all too well. I traded in my 04 R32 which is definitely one car that really plays into that line.

My biggest concern was gone over by Ed already. The AP that you "must" buy to get the stage 1/2 maps is really just an extra item until you have someone that can and will utilize it to work on a custom (read Pro) tune for your vehicle. I got all that and I'm partially ok with it. The leap I'm not willing to take, too easily at least, is that somehow the Cobb OTC tunes for 1/2 are so drastically different than many of the OTC options from open source venues. There seem to be some really accomplished open source tuners with tried and tested base tunes.

Every forum I have visited so far has their "accepted mod list" or "accepted tune list" and most of the users are xenophobic of anything that isn't within that list, even when they haven't actually used or experienced it. I'm not saying this is the case 100% here but it seems there could be a taste of it.

I don't want to come off as argumentative (as I'm sure I do) or ungrateful, I just want to get as much of a view of the picture as I can.

Again....thanks for all the replies thus far and all of the advice. I don't plan on fubar'ing myself, just want to make sure I make an informed decision.
we arent trying to blow you off either, its just that most of the people here have gone routes other than cobb and then ended up coming back to the AP for ease of use, reliability, and serviceability. there is a large community of tuners behind cobb so by its nature its easier to find a reliable tuner close to you that can tune for any mod combo from 10 hp over stock to 300 over stock.
Old May 16, 2008 | 09:30 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Vladi, you did offer to tune his car:

btw drop me a pm if you are ever in the sacramento area regarding that flash
You offering services without being a paying vendor.

If stating facts is what you consider "flaming", you need thicker skin.
The two tuning types differ like night and day.
ONCE AGAIN, you start flaming away and taking what i say out of context. let me show you ONCE AGAIN:
btw drop me a pm if you are ever in the sacramento area regarding that flash
where in there did i offer a tuning service? he has an xpt map, asked who can flash it for him, i have all the necessary equipment and OFFERED TO FLASH IT IN FOR HIM FOR FREE. not in any single post did i say i will "tune" his car nor did i say i charge. just a guy helpin another guy out. please read before you flame



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