Solyndra - lock out this morning
08-31-2011, 10:06 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 175
Car Info: Toyota pickup, Tuono, '62 Mini
I know I shouldn't come to a car forum to read about economics but I'm appalled at the misinformation and ignorance I'm reading here about China. If any of you recall, the exact same hype was spewed about Japan 20 or 30 years ago. What came of it? Americans got a ton of great products at competitive prices. What happened to American manufacturers? They either got with the program or they went down in flames. The Big 3 wouldn't be here today if they didn't have a Mercantilist government to protect them from reality. And where is Japan now? Limping along in a daze. China is not a threat so stop worrying about that. Instead focus on the real enemy - us.
Anyways, all this new hype about China is just that. Here's a great article that just came out last week on the subject:
These Threats Will Not Collapse America's Economy by Gary North
And here's a quote from it:
"...The fact is, Chinese imports are marginal to the U.S. economy. How marginal? You tell me. (Then I will tell you.) What percentage of Americans' personal consumer expenditures is met by imports from China? Take a guess. Here was the correct answer in 2010.
Chinese goods account for 2.7% of US PCE, about one-quarter of the 11.5% foreign share. ..."
One more:
"Here are some arguments from a site that predicts collapse. Here are some of the reasons.
Our politicians simply do not care that America is bleeding jobs. Amazingly, even with rampant unemployment plaguing this nation, Obama administration officials continue to declare that it is okay that we are losing manufacturing jobs because a lot of cheaper products are things that "we don't want to make in America" anyway.
...Yes, we are losing manufacturing jobs. We have been losing them since 1950. How many Americans send their kids into a factory job instead of college. "Son, I want you to work in a factory. Forget about college." No? I thought not. (Actually, a factory job in a high tech factory is probably a better idea these days than a B.A. in sociology.)
What the handwringers never mention is that the USA is the largest manufacturing nation on earth, with 20% of the world's total manufacturing output. Wikipedia reports: "The United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2007 industrial output of US$2.69 trillion. In 2008, its manufacturing output was greater than that of the manufacturing output of China, India, and Brazil combined, despite manufacturing being a very small portion of the entire US economy as compared to most other countries."
And lastly, unions are horrible for everyone except themselves. It is common knowledge that monopolies are bad since they raise prices, lower the quality of service, and stifle competition. What is a union but a labor monopoly. No one has the right to anything except respect for their life, liberty, and property. If you don't like a job, don't take it. If you can't find a better job, improve your skill set. Life is unfair. Get used to it.
Anyways, all this new hype about China is just that. Here's a great article that just came out last week on the subject:
These Threats Will Not Collapse America's Economy by Gary North
And here's a quote from it:
"...The fact is, Chinese imports are marginal to the U.S. economy. How marginal? You tell me. (Then I will tell you.) What percentage of Americans' personal consumer expenditures is met by imports from China? Take a guess. Here was the correct answer in 2010.
Chinese goods account for 2.7% of US PCE, about one-quarter of the 11.5% foreign share. ..."
One more:
"Here are some arguments from a site that predicts collapse. Here are some of the reasons.
Our politicians simply do not care that America is bleeding jobs. Amazingly, even with rampant unemployment plaguing this nation, Obama administration officials continue to declare that it is okay that we are losing manufacturing jobs because a lot of cheaper products are things that "we don't want to make in America" anyway.
...Yes, we are losing manufacturing jobs. We have been losing them since 1950. How many Americans send their kids into a factory job instead of college. "Son, I want you to work in a factory. Forget about college." No? I thought not. (Actually, a factory job in a high tech factory is probably a better idea these days than a B.A. in sociology.)
What the handwringers never mention is that the USA is the largest manufacturing nation on earth, with 20% of the world's total manufacturing output. Wikipedia reports: "The United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2007 industrial output of US$2.69 trillion. In 2008, its manufacturing output was greater than that of the manufacturing output of China, India, and Brazil combined, despite manufacturing being a very small portion of the entire US economy as compared to most other countries."
And lastly, unions are horrible for everyone except themselves. It is common knowledge that monopolies are bad since they raise prices, lower the quality of service, and stifle competition. What is a union but a labor monopoly. No one has the right to anything except respect for their life, liberty, and property. If you don't like a job, don't take it. If you can't find a better job, improve your skill set. Life is unfair. Get used to it.
08-31-2011, 10:17 PM
#47
A lot has changes since 2007 and a lot will continue to change for the next few years.
China. India. Iraq. Russia. etc... all countries that are continually ramping up manufacturing.
And numbers can be taken in all kinds of directions when perspective and complete numbers are not taken in to account. I find all those numbers interesting. Is that 11.5% manufactured good only or does it include things like crude? And 20% of the worlds production really isn't that large of a number when you think about what percentage of the worlds economy is in this country.. and it's a scary number when you consider it could easily shrink by 5-8% in the next 10 years. How many thousands of jobs will that equal.. how many hundreds of thousands of jobs.
It's not just the numbers right now that are scary to me it's the we are not doing anything as a country to stop it and if it continues... if our pride continues to get in the way of reality.... if being the saint mother teresa of the world keeps getting in the way or self preservation we are in deep **** in 20 years. What kind of country are we going to leave our children.... **** the "environment" in 20 years.... what kind of education, financial, free country are our children going to grow up and raise children in?
I don't think anyone has throw percentages out there? I think people are just saying its a progressively growing concern. Is that not true?
China. India. Iraq. Russia. etc... all countries that are continually ramping up manufacturing.
And numbers can be taken in all kinds of directions when perspective and complete numbers are not taken in to account. I find all those numbers interesting. Is that 11.5% manufactured good only or does it include things like crude? And 20% of the worlds production really isn't that large of a number when you think about what percentage of the worlds economy is in this country.. and it's a scary number when you consider it could easily shrink by 5-8% in the next 10 years. How many thousands of jobs will that equal.. how many hundreds of thousands of jobs.
It's not just the numbers right now that are scary to me it's the we are not doing anything as a country to stop it and if it continues... if our pride continues to get in the way of reality.... if being the saint mother teresa of the world keeps getting in the way or self preservation we are in deep **** in 20 years. What kind of country are we going to leave our children.... **** the "environment" in 20 years.... what kind of education, financial, free country are our children going to grow up and raise children in?
I don't think anyone has throw percentages out there? I think people are just saying its a progressively growing concern. Is that not true?
08-31-2011, 10:34 PM
#48
previously known as wrxBRAH
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose / Campbell
Posts: 3,383
Car Info: 2004 FXT
If you don't have the skill, or brains to negociate a good term for yourself, then don't live in CA, simple as that.
Why is it a biz's job to make sure you get paid X wage? Why is it any goverments right to demand a company pay people XX wage above the median norm? Its not, and its bull**** like minium wage laws that have sent our jobs overseas and why we have 10% unemployment.
If a company can't afford to have a factory here, they move where its cheeper.
Why is it a biz's job to make sure you get paid X wage? Why is it any goverments right to demand a company pay people XX wage above the median norm? Its not, and its bull**** like minium wage laws that have sent our jobs overseas and why we have 10% unemployment.
If a company can't afford to have a factory here, they move where its cheeper.
08-31-2011, 10:39 PM
#49
Man I wish I got paid what I felt like I was worth. LOL. I work for $35-75 an hour when I'm working freelance but in a full time position I feel pretty fortunate to get $26. Hopefully I'll see that go up in the next year or so. Need to get my damn degree and fight for an art director/creative director job and $35-45 an hour. Sucks that I was making $35hr plus OT and bonuses 7 years ago... LOL!
08-31-2011, 10:42 PM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 175
Car Info: Toyota pickup, Tuono, '62 Mini
People do pay premiums for goods with premium features or unique characteristics. Do girls spend hundreds on purses when a plastic shopping bag will do the same thing? Do we spend thousands more on a sports car when a Kia will get you to work for a lot less? In the same way, workers have to offer something more if they want to be paid more.
Your bargaining power is no less as a single employee. If you have unique, valuable skills then the company will pay a commensurate wage. If there a million people who can do what you can do, what justifies your demand for premium pay? Supply and demand cuts both ways.
08-31-2011, 10:45 PM
#51
So what's your point? Do you pass up the gas station charging $2.89/gallon for the one charging $8.50? Do consumers ever willingly pay more for anything if they can get the exact same thing elsewhere nearby?
People do pay premiums for goods with premium features or unique characteristics. Do girls spend hundreds on purses when a plastic shopping bag will do the same thing? Do we spend thousands more on a sports car when a Kia will get you to work for a lot less? In the same way, workers have to offer something more if they want to be paid more.
Your bargaining power is no less as a single employee. If you have unique, valuable skills then the company will pay a commensurate wage. If there a million people who can do what you can do, what justifies your demand for premium pay? Supply and demand cuts both ways.
People do pay premiums for goods with premium features or unique characteristics. Do girls spend hundreds on purses when a plastic shopping bag will do the same thing? Do we spend thousands more on a sports car when a Kia will get you to work for a lot less? In the same way, workers have to offer something more if they want to be paid more.
Your bargaining power is no less as a single employee. If you have unique, valuable skills then the company will pay a commensurate wage. If there a million people who can do what you can do, what justifies your demand for premium pay? Supply and demand cuts both ways.
Very True. In my industry there has been a ridiculous flood of people in to the work force in the last 10 years. It is an over saturated workforce and most of them have more education and more recent training than I do. I have more experience, I bust my butt and I'm good at what I do. So it's a tough market out there for a guy like me. I know that if I want to survive in this market going forward I need to add a degree and some more skills. I am adding both.
8 years ago it wasn't so saturated. There was more money available and less people to take it. Now there's more people and less money to fight over. So unless you're one of the top you're fighting for what you get and happy with what you get. I'm STOKED to be where I'm at.
08-31-2011, 11:02 PM
#52
My "Green" CEO called this contraction of the Solar space 2 years ago, hence why our "green" company stayed out of Solar. First Evergreen, now Solyndra. If your company bet the farm on govt loans and the hope of an economic turnaround, you're bound to fail.
The writing was on the wall a year ago for Solyndra when they closed up the 'old' plant and moved everything to the new plant to hopefully cut down on CapEx since the Govt $ paid for the new plant. Evergreen moved all their manufacturing to China and closed up shop in the U.S., and the state govt there isn't happy one bit.
At this point for MANY startups, not just those in the clean tech/green space, its IPO or die. I'm glad our company makes everything in the U.S., but it certainly is not cheap & easy to do so.
The writing was on the wall a year ago for Solyndra when they closed up the 'old' plant and moved everything to the new plant to hopefully cut down on CapEx since the Govt $ paid for the new plant. Evergreen moved all their manufacturing to China and closed up shop in the U.S., and the state govt there isn't happy one bit.
At this point for MANY startups, not just those in the clean tech/green space, its IPO or die. I'm glad our company makes everything in the U.S., but it certainly is not cheap & easy to do so.
08-31-2011, 11:21 PM
#53
previously known as wrxBRAH
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Jose / Campbell
Posts: 3,383
Car Info: 2004 FXT
So what's your point? Do you pass up the gas station charging $2.89/gallon for the one charging $8.50? Do consumers ever willingly pay more for anything if they can get the exact same thing elsewhere nearby?
People do pay premiums for goods with premium features or unique characteristics. Do girls spend hundreds on purses when a plastic shopping bag will do the same thing? Do we spend thousands more on a sports car when a Kia will get you to work for a lot less? In the same way, workers have to offer something more if they want to be paid more.
Your bargaining power is no less as a single employee. If you have unique, valuable skills then the company will pay a commensurate wage. If there a million people who can do what you can do, what justifies your demand for premium pay? Supply and demand cuts both ways.
People do pay premiums for goods with premium features or unique characteristics. Do girls spend hundreds on purses when a plastic shopping bag will do the same thing? Do we spend thousands more on a sports car when a Kia will get you to work for a lot less? In the same way, workers have to offer something more if they want to be paid more.
Your bargaining power is no less as a single employee. If you have unique, valuable skills then the company will pay a commensurate wage. If there a million people who can do what you can do, what justifies your demand for premium pay? Supply and demand cuts both ways.
09-01-2011, 07:42 PM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 3,856
Car Info: Forester XTi
Lowend: non union shop, non union workers, non union wages (on a magnatude higher than some of the union shops because our company doesnt have to pay for the union bull****)
**** unions, flat out, and **** anyone who thinks they are a good thing in the modern world. I will give you that yea, back in the 20s and 30s they were handy and had a place, that place is gone.
09-01-2011, 09:12 PM
#59
plays well with others
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sac
Posts: 9,923
Car Info: your mother crazy
Sad to say but the moment nobama backed that company, it was doomed. "Green" tech is bull**** and that fact is finaly comming home to roost.
So called "Green" companies are going to start to fail left and right, this is just the first of many, many to come. CA is finaly going to pay for its arogant socalist ways.
So called "Green" companies are going to start to fail left and right, this is just the first of many, many to come. CA is finaly going to pay for its arogant socalist ways.
