Solyndra - lock out this morning
09-02-2011, 07:48 AM
#61
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Also, guys, I'm no Obama fan but Bush started this whole green energy loan program. Just sayin.
Last edited by PArex; 09-02-2011 at 07:55 AM.
09-02-2011, 07:56 AM
#62
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Please, as greedy as industry may have been at the turn of the century (and industry was greedy) the people running the show today are so much better at making money. Outside of public employee unions (which are out of control), where do you get off saying **** anyone who backs a union?
Also, guys, I'm no Obama fan but Bush started this whole green energy loan program. Just sayin.
Also, guys, I'm no Obama fan but Bush started this whole green energy loan program. Just sayin.
09-02-2011, 09:08 AM
#64
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I have heard that this company used the money to offshore their production facilities, but I have seen no proof of this.
Solar power is just expensive per KWH (about twice the going rate of electricity and 8 times the cost of nuclear).
09-02-2011, 09:18 AM
#65
I think they got part of the stimulus money - I was competing for a piece of that too (seven billion dollars!). If you read about the companies that got the grants, they are pretty much all smaller companies that will employ the most local loabor for full time jobs. The decisions were not made on business decisions, ie the companies most likely to send a return.
I have heard that this company used the money to offshore their production facilities, but I have seen no proof of this.
Solar power is just expensive per KWH (about twice the going rate of electricity and 8 times the cost of nuclear).
I have heard that this company used the money to offshore their production facilities, but I have seen no proof of this.
Solar power is just expensive per KWH (about twice the going rate of electricity and 8 times the cost of nuclear).
They would definitely not be the first to do this if in deed it's what happened.
Salinas is suing the green car company that basically used half a million dollars of salinas grant money to develop tech and file patents. The never produced a damn thing... they're basically pulling the same crap.
Tesla is the next huge taker that's in trouble. Why in the hell would you think a $120,000 electric car would do well in this economy?
09-02-2011, 09:38 AM
#66
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The Tesla roadster didn't do well, that's why they stopped building it (also because they are switching to the Evora platform for the next one). They were $120K because they are HAND BUILT here in the Bay Area. The sedan will cost less because they will be built with more volume manufacturing techiques, however I still don't see it being a success right now either.
Solar manufacturing in the US is not a reality and it never was. Just like there are no TV manufacturers in the US either. It simply can't be done cost effectively in markets that are so price competetive.
Solar manufacturing in the US is not a reality and it never was. Just like there are no TV manufacturers in the US either. It simply can't be done cost effectively in markets that are so price competetive.
09-02-2011, 10:19 AM
#67
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Today.
The problem with this argument is that:
A: Solar will get cheaper the more people use it and invest in it.
B: Unrenewable energy resources will continue to get more expensive.
Both of those things are already happening. How much was the last tank of gas you put in your car? Why are we still having this argument over renewable/non-renewable energy based on the cost as it stands today?
The problem with this argument is that:
A: Solar will get cheaper the more people use it and invest in it.
B: Unrenewable energy resources will continue to get more expensive.
Both of those things are already happening. How much was the last tank of gas you put in your car? Why are we still having this argument over renewable/non-renewable energy based on the cost as it stands today?
09-02-2011, 10:28 AM
#68
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Today.
The problem with this argument is that:
A: Solar will get cheaper the more people use it and invest in it.
B: Unrenewable energy resources will continue to get more expensive.
Both of those things are already happening. How much was the last tank of gas you put in your car? Why are we still having this argument over renewable/non-renewable energy based on the cost as it stands today?
The problem with this argument is that:
A: Solar will get cheaper the more people use it and invest in it.
B: Unrenewable energy resources will continue to get more expensive.
Both of those things are already happening. How much was the last tank of gas you put in your car? Why are we still having this argument over renewable/non-renewable energy based on the cost as it stands today?
In fact, the highly modified engine in my car is more efficient than solar panels.
I looked into putting solar at my shop & home and it made ZERO financial sense to do so.
"Feel Good" factor is still tempting me to make the move.
09-02-2011, 10:34 AM
#69
If in doubt, FLAT OUT
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There are plenty of solar companies that will actually take a look at your home/company and tell you whether or not it is worth installing solar. There is some kind of formula that is based on your annual usage vs the cost of the gear and how many panels it will take to offset that usage. If you have to put in a large number of panels to offset the amount of electricity consumed (meaning they won't pay for themselves anytime soon), it probably isn't worth it. This is one reason why every house and company doesn't have solar already.
09-02-2011, 11:25 AM
#71
The Tesla roadster didn't do well, that's why they stopped building it (also because they are switching to the Evora platform for the next one). They were $120K because they are HAND BUILT here in the Bay Area. The sedan will cost less because they will be built with more volume manufacturing techiques, however I still don't see it being a success right now either.
Solar manufacturing in the US is not a reality and it never was. Just like there are no TV manufacturers in the US either. It simply can't be done cost effectively in markets that are so price competetive.
Solar manufacturing in the US is not a reality and it never was. Just like there are no TV manufacturers in the US either. It simply can't be done cost effectively in markets that are so price competetive.
I never said they were not cool/nice vehicles. I personally think it's a bad *** concept and a great way to gain attention for your company as long as the follow up vehicles are more affordable and still retain the cool/high quality factor. Much the way a concept car is used by other companies.
It was just another example of a company that got a **** ton of grant money and isn't going to do anything with it in the end to create a sustainable company providing jobs in the area... which was the point of the grant.
Want to see a company that used the grant money the way it was intended... FORD. Yes Ford. They are making a MUCH better product than they were before. They hit the right markets. They are doing better financially as a result. Make better products... make better money. And if I'm not mistaken, they paid their loan back already.
09-02-2011, 11:27 AM
#72
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Want to see a company that used the grant money the way it was intended... FORD. Yes Ford. They are making a MUCH better product than they were before. They hit the right markets. They are doing better financially as a result. Make better products... make better money. And if I'm not mistaken, they paid their loan back already.
09-02-2011, 11:59 AM
#73
If in doubt, FLAT OUT
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Nope. Ford DIDN'T take any money. They only reorganized their business, and did a good job of it.
Tesla didn't get a government grant either, AFAIK. They made a deal with Toyota for the NUMI plant.
Tesla didn't get a government grant either, AFAIK. They made a deal with Toyota for the NUMI plant.
09-02-2011, 12:18 PM
#74
Good read. How Ford Restructured Without Federal Help - WSJ.com
I know GM took a fat loan and repaid theirs but if I'm not mistaken they repaid portions of it with other federal aid money? Ed Whitacre is a douche. He was the big man on campus when I worked for SBC. Dude would announce that there would be no employee bonuses for the year and turn around and take a $18 million dollar bonus himself. LOL. I remember one year he tried to pull that and took like a $35 million or something like that. But there's a dude on staff with the SF Chron that used to work for the phone company and he put him on blast. We all got our bonus' that year. I think I got like $3800 or something like that plus another few hundred in department bonus'. Like $4-600. Can't remember. Was a good present for me. LOL.
After reading that article... good for Ford. To do what they've done with zero government bail out money is an awesome display of what everyone should be doing. They are making a better product than they have made in a LONG time if not ever. The entire image of the company is changing. Resale values are rising. Etc.
Thanks for pointing out that error or I wouldn't have read up on it. More people need to get their own asses out of trouble or fold up shop and let someone with more drive take over.
09-02-2011, 12:19 PM
#75
How's that deal with NUMI working out these days? I was really bummed when I heard about the NUMI shut down. I had some friends working out there. Employed a lot of bay area folks at that shop.