Forced Performance is Selling Taiwanese turbos
09-08-2007, 05:25 AM
#61
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denva
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Since when did we make you a moderator? 
I do not consider FP to be selling anything here. They are responding to accusations which is entirely within their rights. It is good for our members to hear both sides of any story and decide for themselves what is true. I hope you can understand that.
I do not consider FP to be selling anything here. They are responding to accusations which is entirely within their rights. It is good for our members to hear both sides of any story and decide for themselves what is true. I hope you can understand that.
09-08-2007, 09:20 AM
#62
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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I noticed a couple of very significant questions in the midst of the mud slinging (which I am ignoring BTW, switched the troll to "ignore") that I'd like to answer for you guys. But I'd like you all to understand that I am unfamiliar with this sort of "free for all"environment where people can hide behind keyboards. It is unfamiliar to me that a man can call another man a liar and not suffer from it. I have never had a man stand in front of me and call me a liar and I doubt it will ever happen. Perhaps I'm a little old fashioned in that sense.
"1) Are the Taiwanese turbo castings cheaper than the MHI? I assume since you pass on the saving to your customers if you switched from Mitsu parts to Taiwan parts the total assembled turbo price dropped as well. Have there been any price drops from FP due to using the cheaper parts?"
As a matter of fact, yes it sure has. We have been able to drop the price of the very popular FP18g (we have always called our custom turbos by our own name to indicate that we make then ourselves). The FP18g used to cost $874 + $95 for porting. Now due to the improvements in casting supply, we offer it, with NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY, for $699 and in most cases no longer requires porting at all. On top of that it now has a 13-14psi actuator instead of the earlier 7-8psi actuator found on the $874 version.
So the savings is over $270. Wait, did I just say over $270? Yes I did. TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DOLLARS LESS EXPENSIVE WITH NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY. And that is why we did it. What else can you buy for your car with that $270? You can get about 90 gallons of gasoline with it. You can buy a new electronic boost controller with it. You can pay for that hot rod flash tuner guy to flash your new combo a couple of times. You could take your girl out on one hell of a date. Point is I'm sure you can think of lots to do with the $270 you saved, and you'll never have to worry about your castings coming from Tiawan - it'll be the last thing on your mind.
"2) Does your quality control and incoming inspection record lot and batch numbers for at least the critical parts that you described? I think this would help with the case that defends your other parts coming from Japan."
We have always performed very detailed inspections of our Garrett, MHI and now Tiawan parts shipments. Prior to inventory even making it to the shelves random inspections of the lots are performed and signed off on. Not to mention the detailed blueprinting procedure that each turbocharger receives during assembly and balance. This is a procedure we have been honing and evolving for over a decade.
BOOST ON!
Robert Young
"1) Are the Taiwanese turbo castings cheaper than the MHI? I assume since you pass on the saving to your customers if you switched from Mitsu parts to Taiwan parts the total assembled turbo price dropped as well. Have there been any price drops from FP due to using the cheaper parts?"
As a matter of fact, yes it sure has. We have been able to drop the price of the very popular FP18g (we have always called our custom turbos by our own name to indicate that we make then ourselves). The FP18g used to cost $874 + $95 for porting. Now due to the improvements in casting supply, we offer it, with NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY, for $699 and in most cases no longer requires porting at all. On top of that it now has a 13-14psi actuator instead of the earlier 7-8psi actuator found on the $874 version.
So the savings is over $270. Wait, did I just say over $270? Yes I did. TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DOLLARS LESS EXPENSIVE WITH NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY. And that is why we did it. What else can you buy for your car with that $270? You can get about 90 gallons of gasoline with it. You can buy a new electronic boost controller with it. You can pay for that hot rod flash tuner guy to flash your new combo a couple of times. You could take your girl out on one hell of a date. Point is I'm sure you can think of lots to do with the $270 you saved, and you'll never have to worry about your castings coming from Tiawan - it'll be the last thing on your mind.
"2) Does your quality control and incoming inspection record lot and batch numbers for at least the critical parts that you described? I think this would help with the case that defends your other parts coming from Japan."
We have always performed very detailed inspections of our Garrett, MHI and now Tiawan parts shipments. Prior to inventory even making it to the shelves random inspections of the lots are performed and signed off on. Not to mention the detailed blueprinting procedure that each turbocharger receives during assembly and balance. This is a procedure we have been honing and evolving for over a decade.
BOOST ON!
Robert Young
09-08-2007, 12:52 PM
#64
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Location: Denva
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we both have EVO RS cars. Mine is lighter 'cuz it's a 04.
09-08-2007, 01:03 PM
#65
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Denva
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I noticed a couple of very significant questions in the midst of the mud slinging (which I am ignoring BTW, switched the troll to "ignore") that I'd like to answer for you guys. But I'd like you all to understand that I am unfamiliar with this sort of "free for all"environment where people can hide behind keyboards. It is unfamiliar to me that a man can call another man a liar and not suffer from it. I have never had a man stand in front of me and call me a liar and I doubt it will ever happen. Perhaps I'm a little old fashioned in that sense.
Last edited by Taiwan Turbo; 09-10-2007 at 06:13 PM.
09-08-2007, 04:17 PM
#67
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Well this isn't going to work, if I am on ignore ( I assume I am the troll?). I can't even be a e-tough guy if FP won't respond....Oh well, I can see the end of this thread raplidly approaching, eh?
I have no problem with calling FP dishonest to their face, but I am in Denver, so that would take a lot of time or money to do so. That's kind of the advantage of the internet, you can communicate in real time without having to be right next to the person.
Even though FP won't respond, I'll make the analogy again. If you have merchandise that is just a copy of an origional, one way to increase it's value is to lie about either it's brand/trade name, or lie about where it is made. That is why it is illegal to sell fake Rolex watches-the seller creates the impression that you are buying a Rolex, but really you are buying a fake copy that is not as good.
If no one questions where the rolex is made before they buy it, is it still dishonest to let people believe that it is a real rolex, or are you in the clear because your buyer doesn't ask you beforehand "is this a real rolex?"
Or even better, if a company builds a reputation on geniune goods, like a line of trucks, say the Ford F-150, is it dishonest of Ford to start selling a truck called a F-150 that is made in Mexico after they built a reputation on trucks made in the USA? Some of the sources of parts will be different, but the truck is still called a F-150. Is it still the same truck?
In the case of the Ford trucks, it is not all that dishonest, because you can look at the window sticker and see the parts content right there in front of you, and you can see just where the thing is made. The question is, is a Ford F-150 made in Kansas City the same as a Ford F-150 made in Mexico? A ford is a ford is a ford, no?
And what makes a turbo a mitsubishi based turbo? If the bearings and a compressor wheel are mitsubishi, but the bearing housing, turbine wheel, turbine housing, compressor housing, wastegate actuator, and all the misc. nuts and bolts are taiwanese, is that still a mitsubishi based turbo? Or is it just a Forced Performance turbo? That should be enough, but stop calling it a mitsubishi, for god's sake! You can't call a watch a rolex unless it's made by rolex!
And on a lighter note, what happens if FP employs a chinese person? Are they not allowed to touch the turbos because they are not white?
I have no problem with calling FP dishonest to their face, but I am in Denver, so that would take a lot of time or money to do so. That's kind of the advantage of the internet, you can communicate in real time without having to be right next to the person.
Even though FP won't respond, I'll make the analogy again. If you have merchandise that is just a copy of an origional, one way to increase it's value is to lie about either it's brand/trade name, or lie about where it is made. That is why it is illegal to sell fake Rolex watches-the seller creates the impression that you are buying a Rolex, but really you are buying a fake copy that is not as good.
If no one questions where the rolex is made before they buy it, is it still dishonest to let people believe that it is a real rolex, or are you in the clear because your buyer doesn't ask you beforehand "is this a real rolex?"
Or even better, if a company builds a reputation on geniune goods, like a line of trucks, say the Ford F-150, is it dishonest of Ford to start selling a truck called a F-150 that is made in Mexico after they built a reputation on trucks made in the USA? Some of the sources of parts will be different, but the truck is still called a F-150. Is it still the same truck?
In the case of the Ford trucks, it is not all that dishonest, because you can look at the window sticker and see the parts content right there in front of you, and you can see just where the thing is made. The question is, is a Ford F-150 made in Kansas City the same as a Ford F-150 made in Mexico? A ford is a ford is a ford, no?
And what makes a turbo a mitsubishi based turbo? If the bearings and a compressor wheel are mitsubishi, but the bearing housing, turbine wheel, turbine housing, compressor housing, wastegate actuator, and all the misc. nuts and bolts are taiwanese, is that still a mitsubishi based turbo? Or is it just a Forced Performance turbo? That should be enough, but stop calling it a mitsubishi, for god's sake! You can't call a watch a rolex unless it's made by rolex!
And on a lighter note, what happens if FP employs a chinese person? Are they not allowed to touch the turbos because they are not white?
telephone. We don't need your personal issues hashed out on our forum. You've said your peace and FP has provided a response. Anything further will just degenerate into drama. I'd venture to guess that's what got you banned on the other forums and I can tell you that's what will get you banned from this site.Thank you.
09-08-2007, 04:27 PM
#68
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Location: Denva
Posts: 84
Car Info: EVO 8 RS
Please take future exchanges with FP to PM or email or telephone. We don't need your personal issues hashed out on our forum. You've said your peace and FP has provided a response. Anything further will just degenerate into drama. I'd venture to guess that's what got you banned on the other forums and I can tell you that's what will get you banned from this site.
Thank you.
telephone. We don't need your personal issues hashed out on our forum. You've said your peace and FP has provided a response. Anything further will just degenerate into drama. I'd venture to guess that's what got you banned on the other forums and I can tell you that's what will get you banned from this site.Thank you.
However, FP gets to call me a troll, and an unemployed failure and I don't get to respond? Dang! I don't have any personal issues with them, I just don't like being called names....it makes me sad.
That being said, OK.
I have posted what got me banned, for anyone who is following this-just scroll back a few pages, if you are interested.
09-08-2007, 04:38 PM
#69
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No problem, wilco.
However, FP gets to call me a troll, and an unemployed failure and I don't get to respond? Dang! I don't have any personal issues with them, I just don't like being called names....it makes me sad.
That being said, OK.
I have posted what got me banned, for anyone who is following this-just scroll back a few pages, if you are interested.
However, FP gets to call me a troll, and an unemployed failure and I don't get to respond? Dang! I don't have any personal issues with them, I just don't like being called names....it makes me sad.
That being said, OK.
I have posted what got me banned, for anyone who is following this-just scroll back a few pages, if you are interested.
Whether those issues are personally or not motivated I can see how FP's Robert is taking them personally after all he owns the business and obviously does give a **** about not only his companies image but also his customers.
Just my 0.2c
Mike
09-08-2007, 04:54 PM
#70
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Location: Denva
Posts: 84
Car Info: EVO 8 RS
It certainly seems that you do have issues with them, I mean you have constantly stated the same thing over and over regardless of FP's responses.
Whether those issues are personally or not motivated I can see how FP's Robert is taking them personally after all he owns the business and obviously does give a **** about not only his companies image but also his customers.
Just my 0.2c
Mike
Whether those issues are personally or not motivated I can see how FP's Robert is taking them personally after all he owns the business and obviously does give a **** about not only his companies image but also his customers.
Just my 0.2c
Mike
09-08-2007, 05:39 PM
#71
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To be quite honest given the responses by Robert and the fact that FP clearly has reduced it's prices on certain turbo's due to lower cost to manufacture gained by sourcing the parts elsewhere yet they still assemble the turbo's in house I personally think that the wording on the website is fairly reasonable.
Mike
09-08-2007, 09:21 PM
#73
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"Disclaimer: While all FP turbochargers are built in our Dallas Texas plant, castings may have various countries of origin other than the US. Some castings are made in Japan, Tiawan, and Canada. I'm sure this is no surprise, however due to a recent Slander Campaign against FP claiming that our turbos are made in China we wish to have the facts readily available for all to see. Our quality is second to none, and our heart and soul goes into each of our turbos. We build all our own turbos in our own plant with the exception of the ones listed as MHI or Garrett official part numbers. These Official OEM part numbered turbos are not made by FP, but rather come directly from Garrett or Mitsubishi Turbo, a division of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. "
slander-The oral utterance or spreading of a falsehood harmful to another's reputation.
slander-The oral utterance or spreading of a falsehood harmful to another's reputation.
Last edited by Taiwan Turbo; 09-09-2007 at 03:40 PM.
09-08-2007, 09:55 PM
#74
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oh here we go. Textbook example as to why this stuff is important. Remember, the turbine wheels are from taiwan.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/hawaii-43/compressor-surge-beware-169987/
Turbine shaft failure, anyone?
https://www.i-club.com/forums/hawaii-43/compressor-surge-beware-169987/
Turbine shaft failure, anyone?
09-09-2007, 03:30 AM
#75
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oh here we go. Textbook example as to why this stuff is important. Remember, the turbine wheels are from taiwan.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169987
Turbine shaft failure, anyone?
https://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169987
Turbine shaft failure, anyone?
Feel free to discuss vendor experiences but please don't use the forum as your own private soapbox to perpetually bash specific vendors.
When NASIOC and EvolutionM.net shut you down, you just had to find another outlet. Of course, you had to come onto this board and bash the other boards as oppressive and unwilling to let you get the word out to the world, with the implication that if i-Club isn't oppressive like NASIOC, we would allow you to post indefinitely. It doesn't work that way, but nice try at manipulating us to allow you to continue. I didn't visit the other boards to read your linked threads because I don't care what transpired on other message boards. It's the internet! Those are privately-owned message boards. Give your ego a rest, already. Do you think you can do that?