religion argument
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yes, thats always the answer we get, but where did God come from? I know the idea of 'nothing' is hard to grasp, but for God to have existed, even before us or this universe he created, he was somewhere at some place in time, what was this place that wasnt 'here' and how did God come about?
Sorry, its a bit of a loaded question, I wrote a term paper on this concept actually so Im not expecting any real answer from you on it. Im not trying to be confrontational at all, I would just like those that are indeed faithful to be a bit more inquisitive, believe me thats not a sin.
Sorry, its a bit of a loaded question, I wrote a term paper on this concept actually so Im not expecting any real answer from you on it. Im not trying to be confrontational at all, I would just like those that are indeed faithful to be a bit more inquisitive, believe me thats not a sin.
We are mortal human beings. We live on a time line. We're born. We die. It's linear. We look at it and it's flat. Think of looking strait down on a sign wave. Flat. Strait.
God is not mortal and lives outside of the constraints of a linear time line. It has no beginning and no end. His time line goes up and down below ours. Like seeing that same sign wave from the side.
That's oversimplifying the concept but it's just something I'll throw out there.
We can not wrap our minds around the possibility that something could exist outside the constraints of time.
You do understand that the Bible confirms natural selection (some people mistakenly call that evolution today) and that the Bible contradicts evolution from a mouse to a dog, right? As time goes on there is less genetic variation, each generation looses genetic information ---> as a result of natural selection.
For example:
If a population of dogs have genes for both long and short hair, but the dogs live in a cold environment, the dogs with short hair will die out and the gene for short hair with them... tell me, is that a loss of genetic information or gaining of information?
Genetic information is lost with every generation and for evolution to be true, we would have to see the opposite. We would have to be exponentially gaining genetic information with each generation. Since the beginning of time, we have been losing more information with each generation.
For example:
If a population of dogs have genes for both long and short hair, but the dogs live in a cold environment, the dogs with short hair will die out and the gene for short hair with them... tell me, is that a loss of genetic information or gaining of information?
Genetic information is lost with every generation and for evolution to be true, we would have to see the opposite. We would have to be exponentially gaining genetic information with each generation. Since the beginning of time, we have been losing more information with each generation.
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And no, you didn't "kill" evolutionary theory--just like science cannot invalidate faith, you cannot disprove scientific theory with scripture. Oh, the arrogance.
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I believe that I'm here, I'm going to enjoy my life and the lives of the people I hold close, and I will die at some point. If there's a reward or a punishment for me after death, or nothing at all, then so be it.
We all have a free will and it leads us to where ever it leads us. If that path is ultimately wrong, all I can say is I did what I felt was right. No use being concerned about what happens after my mortality ends because I'm still going to do what I feel is right regardless. I will still be the one who decides what is right and wrong for myself.
We all have a free will and it leads us to where ever it leads us. If that path is ultimately wrong, all I can say is I did what I felt was right. No use being concerned about what happens after my mortality ends because I'm still going to do what I feel is right regardless. I will still be the one who decides what is right and wrong for myself.
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The documents were recovered from all over Europe, the Middle East, Africa, etc. and were from Biblical times and some time after. Original, ancient texts and artifacts that confirm the Bible's truth of events from the OT and then the NT.
There are plenty of other books that have changed over the years even though people had the original text to go off of. The Bible is the only book that has stood the test of time for thousands of years without change, even while being persecuted.
Already addressed that two pages back:
Who would believe said Christians that pick and choose which parts of the Bible they'd like to believe? That does away with Biblical Authority... if you can't trust every word, then you can't trust any of it.
There are plenty of other books that have changed over the years even though people had the original text to go off of. The Bible is the only book that has stood the test of time for thousands of years without change, even while being persecuted.
Already addressed that two pages back:
Who would believe said Christians that pick and choose which parts of the Bible they'd like to believe? That does away with Biblical Authority... if you can't trust every word, then you can't trust any of it.
) I believe that there is truth in the Bible. I believe in God and Jesus as God and man. However, I do not believe that the stories of the bible are absolutely true. I believe in evolution, like many members of my church and do believe that the science and the Bible are reconcilable.
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I believe that there is truth in the Bible. I believe in God and Jesus as God and man. However, I do not believe that the stories of the bible are absolutely true. I believe in evolution, like many members of my church and do believe that the science and the Bible are reconcilable.
Edit
I just realized something else as well. You are starting to understand
Science doesn't invalidate faith in the Bible, it confirms it. It's only a little bit since there is still confusion in your post, but it's progress!!Last edited by medicSTi; Mar 2, 2009 at 12:40 PM.
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i actually just LOL'd in the office
I believe that I'm here, I'm going to enjoy my life and the lives of the people I hold close, and I will die at some point. If there's a reward or a punishment for me after death, or nothing at all, then so be it.
We all have a free will and it leads us to where ever it leads us. If that path is ultimately wrong, all I can say is I did what I felt was right. No use being concerned about what happens after my mortality ends because I'm still going to do what I feel is right regardless. I will still be the one who decides what is right and wrong for myself.
We all have a free will and it leads us to where ever it leads us. If that path is ultimately wrong, all I can say is I did what I felt was right. No use being concerned about what happens after my mortality ends because I'm still going to do what I feel is right regardless. I will still be the one who decides what is right and wrong for myself.
Maybe you are questioning the wrong thing?
And that is where I stray from you. As an Episcopalian (though, admittedly not a very good one ) I believe that there is truth in the Bible. I believe in God and Jesus as God and man. However, I do not believe that the stories of the bible are absolutely true. I believe in evolution, like many members of my church and do believe that the science and the Bible are reconcilable.
) I believe that there is truth in the Bible. I believe in God and Jesus as God and man. However, I do not believe that the stories of the bible are absolutely true. I believe in evolution, like many members of my church and do believe that the science and the Bible are reconcilable.What do you say about this:
Proverbs 30 (New International Version)
5 "Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
5 "Every word of God is flawless;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
6 Do not add to his words,
or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.
How do you justify believing certain parts of the Bible and denying others? For example, how do you claim that the 6 days of creation are not literal days? The Bible says:
Genesis 1 (New International Version)
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Genesis 1
The Beginning
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.
6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.
9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.
20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.
24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."
29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
And I'll quote what I posted earlier in this thread again:
That's how it is right? God is like a buffet?
Get what you want and not what you don't want... fruit salad... but not pea salad... french fries.... chicken... but no veggies...
You get to go through and pick what you want and don't want... which is what people are doing with God today...
I'll take a little bit of the grace of God, but I don't want any judgment please...
I'll take this verse that says God blesses me, but no discipline.
I like the verse that says He has plans to prosper me and to bless me, not to hurt me... but I don't like that verse that says to be generous...
God created us in His image... and many of us are returning the favor...
The problem is people forget, at the end of the line... you have to pay.
Get what you want and not what you don't want... fruit salad... but not pea salad... french fries.... chicken... but no veggies...
You get to go through and pick what you want and don't want... which is what people are doing with God today...
I'll take a little bit of the grace of God, but I don't want any judgment please...
I'll take this verse that says God blesses me, but no discipline.
I like the verse that says He has plans to prosper me and to bless me, not to hurt me... but I don't like that verse that says to be generous...
God created us in His image... and many of us are returning the favor...
The problem is people forget, at the end of the line... you have to pay.
Last edited by medicSTi; Mar 2, 2009 at 12:36 PM.
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LMAO.
You think that because some dude wrote some **** down in a book - and 1,000 years later it has become the center of a religion it makes it true?
Please, stop.
Accept your faith but don't try to push it down other's throats and say that there is ANY fact in your bible.
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the bible works much better as a collection of stories than an historical record. the only bible i own sits on a shelf right next to Aesop, Granny Goose, and the Beatrix Potter collection.