religion argument
This illustration also helps reinforce the consequence of what happens when someone believes in millions of years. When one accepts the millions of years of Earth's history as taught by the secular world, then he also has to accept millions of years of death, diseases like cancer, violence, pain, suffering, thorns, etc. before man was created and before the first man Adam sinned.
At the end of the sixth day of Creation, God described all of His Creation as 'very good.' To be consistent, when one allows for millions of years, he also has to accept that God describes millions of years of death, disease, bloodshed, suffering, pain, violence, etc. as 'very good.' The consequence of this is that God is responsible for the death, pain and violence we see in today's world.
The real reason there is death... pain... suffering...
let me sum that up.
IX: i dont believe in higher power yet you(kyle) believes in it, who is this higher power(that kyle knows of) that allows all this suffering?
and kyle, can you read my previous post and comment please, i'd like to see how my logic is flawed compared to what you think is real.
IX: i dont believe in higher power yet you(kyle) believes in it, who is this higher power(that kyle knows of) that allows all this suffering?
and kyle, can you read my previous post and comment please, i'd like to see how my logic is flawed compared to what you think is real.
Exodus 20 (New International Version)
The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
The Ten Commandments
1 And God spoke all these words:
2 "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 "You shall have no other gods before [a] me.
4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Idolization, (verb: to idolize): as an excessive admiration, devotion, envy or attachment to a person or thing.
Those believing in Evolution/Darwinism/Secular Humanism are guilty as well as those who believe religions other than Christianity of having false idols.
We are all guilty of having false idols... i.e. Deep attachment to our Subarus for example... Everyone sins, Christian or not.
Last edited by medicSTi; Feb 28, 2009 at 03:09 PM.
this may come as a surprise, but i do in fact believe in a higher power, just not in the judeo-christian sense. with all the time i spent growing up exposed to 3 different faiths (schools, mothers, fathers) i learned that the tenets are the same
god is all knowing, all powerful, and infinitely merciful.
so given that, why would god create a system as proposed in 'intelligent design' that that causes more suffering that any other possible alternative?
yes because nothing lends more credibility to a religion than dragons
god is all knowing, all powerful, and infinitely merciful.
so given that, why would god create a system as proposed in 'intelligent design' that that causes more suffering that any other possible alternative?
yes because nothing lends more credibility to a religion than dragons
God explains that, does yours?
2 Timothy 3 (New International Version)
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
Godlessness in the Last Days
1But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
6They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 8Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth—men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. 9But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone.
Debating about it can lead people to learning things they've misunderstood or never known. It's all good as long as people respect each other and have positive attitudes.
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just to clearify, were those illustrations meant to educate us about creationism and what the bible means as "fact" or just to tell us a story about what bible says?
as i've mentioned earlier, the black sea is a possible cause of how the noah's flood story started. from carbon dating from the artifacts found beneath the ocean, those artifacts are 6000 years old and there is a tablet that tells a story of a man who spoked to god and was told that a great flood was coming, this is also 6000 years old. there is a documentry by NGC called Finding Noah's Flood. same guy that did the expedition for titanic.
and if earth is 6,000 years old, i guess carbon dating is a flawed method
as i've mentioned earlier, the black sea is a possible cause of how the noah's flood story started. from carbon dating from the artifacts found beneath the ocean, those artifacts are 6000 years old and there is a tablet that tells a story of a man who spoked to god and was told that a great flood was coming, this is also 6000 years old. there is a documentry by NGC called Finding Noah's Flood. same guy that did the expedition for titanic.
and if earth is 6,000 years old, i guess carbon dating is a flawed method
just to clearify, were those illustrations meant to educate us about creationism and what the bible means as "fact" or just to tell us a story about what bible says?
as i've mentioned earlier, the black sea is a possible cause of how the noah's flood story started. from carbon dating from the artifacts found beneath the ocean, those artifacts are 6000 years old and there is a tablet that tells a story of a man who spoked to god and was told that a great flood was coming, this is also 6000 years old. there is a documentry by NGC called Finding Noah's Flood. same guy that did the expedition for titanic.
and if earth is 6,000 years old, i guess carbon dating is a flawed method
as i've mentioned earlier, the black sea is a possible cause of how the noah's flood story started. from carbon dating from the artifacts found beneath the ocean, those artifacts are 6000 years old and there is a tablet that tells a story of a man who spoked to god and was told that a great flood was coming, this is also 6000 years old. there is a documentry by NGC called Finding Noah's Flood. same guy that did the expedition for titanic.
and if earth is 6,000 years old, i guess carbon dating is a flawed method
From the AnswersInGenesis.org article about Carbon Dating:
All radiometric dating methods are based on assumptions about events that happened in the past. If the assumptions are accepted as true (as is typically done in the evolutionary dating processes), results can be biased toward a desired age. In the reported ages given in textbooks and other journals, these evolutionary assumptions have not been questioned, while results inconsistent with long ages have been censored. When the assumptions were evaluated and shown faulty, the results supported the biblical account of a global Flood and young earth. Christians should not be afraid of radiometric dating methods. Carbon-14 dating is really the friend of Christians, and it supports a young earth.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................
In 1997 an eight-year research project was started to investigate the age of the earth. The group was called the RATE group (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth). The team of scientists included:
Larry Vardiman, PhD Atmospheric Science
Russell Humphreys, PhD Physics
Eugene Chaffin, PhD Physics
John Baumgardner, PhD Geophysics
Donald DeYoung, PhD Physics
Steven Austin, PhD Geology
Andrew Snelling, PhD Geology
Steven Boyd, PhD Hebraic and Cognate Studies
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................................
The RATE scientists are convinced that the popular idea attributed to geologist Charles Lyell from nearly two centuries ago, “The present is the key to the past,” is simply not valid for an earth history of millions or billions of years. An alternative interpretation of the carbon-14 data is that the earth experienced a global flood catastrophe which laid down most of the rock strata and fossils.... Whatever the source of the carbon-14, its presence in nearly every sample tested worldwide is a strong challenge to an ancient age. Carbon-14 data is now firmly on the side of the young-earth view of history.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................
In 1997 an eight-year research project was started to investigate the age of the earth. The group was called the RATE group (Radioisotopes and the Age of The Earth). The team of scientists included:
Larry Vardiman, PhD Atmospheric Science
Russell Humphreys, PhD Physics
Eugene Chaffin, PhD Physics
John Baumgardner, PhD Geophysics
Donald DeYoung, PhD Physics
Steven Austin, PhD Geology
Andrew Snelling, PhD Geology
Steven Boyd, PhD Hebraic and Cognate Studies
.................................................. .................................................. ..................................................
The RATE scientists are convinced that the popular idea attributed to geologist Charles Lyell from nearly two centuries ago, “The present is the key to the past,” is simply not valid for an earth history of millions or billions of years. An alternative interpretation of the carbon-14 data is that the earth experienced a global flood catastrophe which laid down most of the rock strata and fossils.... Whatever the source of the carbon-14, its presence in nearly every sample tested worldwide is a strong challenge to an ancient age. Carbon-14 data is now firmly on the side of the young-earth view of history.
Last edited by medicSTi; Feb 28, 2009 at 07:42 PM.
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So who or what created God?
Funny thing is, your point about a single creator is also the the best contradiction to a creator. This is an age old Philosophy question, because in religion, the idea of the creators origin is beyond reproach, but if you suggest that there was something before this universe that science cannot explain, than how can you explain a creator without an origin?
Funny thing is, your point about a single creator is also the the best contradiction to a creator. This is an age old Philosophy question, because in religion, the idea of the creators origin is beyond reproach, but if you suggest that there was something before this universe that science cannot explain, than how can you explain a creator without an origin?
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here, instead of me trying to explain everything, let me just link you to things that i agree with and see how they're explained because they can do it much better than i can.
here is a link to a good debate between a creationist/ID and agnostic evolutionist
http://debatenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600
and many other ones related to creationism and revolution
http://debatenation.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12
and here is a video that explains what i've said how vast the universe is.
by the laws of physics, because of how fast light travels, we can definitly say how long everything has existed because we know the distance that the light has traveled from a single point. in the same way that when you turn on a flash light, you wont know what you see in the dark until the light from the flash light reflects off from the object you'll be looking at or another person seeing the flash light until the light hits his/her eyes.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/g..._universe.html
theory is suppose to evolve, its a process of adding and removing information as we learn new information about the subject. there are many examples that has evolved and later became pretty much regarded as fact even though its something we cant see hear or touch. a theory helps us explain something we dont know instead of just taking the word of another or a book.
you said theory is written by men, bible isnt? no excuses, ultimatly, bible was written by men. civilizations change, laws and rules change, how is bible's word being the same for thousands of years a good thing(in terms of how it explains everything)? and from what i understand, bible has been edited in the past. and if the bible is the correct story, what about other religious books?
religion is threatened by atheism, yet atheism is the minority, by a HUGE margin.
here is a link to a good debate between a creationist/ID and agnostic evolutionist
http://debatenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=600
and many other ones related to creationism and revolution
http://debatenation.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12
and here is a video that explains what i've said how vast the universe is.
by the laws of physics, because of how fast light travels, we can definitly say how long everything has existed because we know the distance that the light has traveled from a single point. in the same way that when you turn on a flash light, you wont know what you see in the dark until the light from the flash light reflects off from the object you'll be looking at or another person seeing the flash light until the light hits his/her eyes.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/g..._universe.html
theory is suppose to evolve, its a process of adding and removing information as we learn new information about the subject. there are many examples that has evolved and later became pretty much regarded as fact even though its something we cant see hear or touch. a theory helps us explain something we dont know instead of just taking the word of another or a book.
you said theory is written by men, bible isnt? no excuses, ultimatly, bible was written by men. civilizations change, laws and rules change, how is bible's word being the same for thousands of years a good thing(in terms of how it explains everything)? and from what i understand, bible has been edited in the past. and if the bible is the correct story, what about other religious books?
religion is threatened by atheism, yet atheism is the minority, by a HUGE margin.
Last edited by Jin; Feb 28, 2009 at 08:06 PM.
So who or what created God?
Funny thing is, your point about a single creator is also the the best contradiction to a creator. This is an age old Philosophy question, because in religion, the idea of the creators origin is beyond reproach, but if you suggest that there was something before this universe that science cannot explain, than how can you explain a creator without an origin?
Funny thing is, your point about a single creator is also the the best contradiction to a creator. This is an age old Philosophy question, because in religion, the idea of the creators origin is beyond reproach, but if you suggest that there was something before this universe that science cannot explain, than how can you explain a creator without an origin?
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Not to mock, but which God. According to several civilizations, there's several different ones with essentially the same amount of information to back it up (ie books, scripture, verbal accounts, etc.). What differentiates the correct ones from the incorrect ones?
I can write a book and tell everyone it's God's words, who's to say I'm lying?
I can write a book and tell everyone it's God's words, who's to say I'm lying?
