religion argument
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example of a theory:
because of the curvature of the sea and disappearing ships in the sea, i can say that the earth is probably rounded. this was not clearly proven until we sent a ship out of space. so, is this just a theory?
same can be said about evolution, big bang, as it was said about tectonic plates, gravity, einsteins theory of relativity, do i need to say more?
science has improved our knowledge beyond imagine 1000 years ago, yet it is thrown away like garbage by those who refuse to understand or hear it without chance.
what i'm saying is, one makes sense either way, one makes sense only if you believe in it.
because of the curvature of the sea and disappearing ships in the sea, i can say that the earth is probably rounded. this was not clearly proven until we sent a ship out of space. so, is this just a theory?
same can be said about evolution, big bang, as it was said about tectonic plates, gravity, einsteins theory of relativity, do i need to say more?
science has improved our knowledge beyond imagine 1000 years ago, yet it is thrown away like garbage by those who refuse to understand or hear it without chance.
what i'm saying is, one makes sense either way, one makes sense only if you believe in it.
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if i did know how life and universe started, i dont think i'd be posting casually on i-club.
science is not as simple as the "informations" in bible, is this agreeable?
science is always evolving. didnt everyone think earth was flat? didnt people think rain was act of god? eclipse? sun? there are still many things unanswered and humans have alot of advances to be made. all those "unexplained" things were explained as act of god, simple. but one by one we're understanding how they work, only thing left is "where did life start?", "how was the universe created?" its something we have no answer for but we have possibilities. did anyone know about tectonic plates 100 years ago?
you guys are just throwing all those ideas out the window and just accept god's work as the ultimate answer, to that, what can i say? i'm trying to reply with evidance and theories but i'm returned with critisizm on unfinished theories and nothing but stories from the bible...why not the koran? torah? i'm no expert, do they all say the same thing?
theories are process of elimination, its always changing and evolving for better answer. discrediting theory is like judging an unfinished art work as if it was finished.
and about the shoebox theory, one of major factor in evolution is natural selection...i dont know if that has anything to do with watches but in terms of the universe it went something like this:
dust clouds are formed of hydrogen, helium, oxygen, other various elements. they're attracted to each other by their own gravity. as the dust ball gets bigger, gravity and density increases. once it is dense enough, the core will heat up and start to glow and cause thermonuclear reactions. this is the theory, we see it happening around us in far parts of our galaxy. now, the question is, where did these gas clouds come from?
two answers, super novas. dead stars will explode and during that process new elments are created like gold, platinum, those will later gather up and repeat the process. process of stars dying and reborn creats new elements. but how is the very first formed? where did the clouds come from? thats where big bang theory comes into play.
similar stories for planets. this theory was worked on for many, many years until evidance and more theories were put on top of it. it was made possible by many scientists looking for answers and to increase our knowledge.
science is not as simple as the "informations" in bible, is this agreeable?
science is always evolving. didnt everyone think earth was flat? didnt people think rain was act of god? eclipse? sun? there are still many things unanswered and humans have alot of advances to be made. all those "unexplained" things were explained as act of god, simple. but one by one we're understanding how they work, only thing left is "where did life start?", "how was the universe created?" its something we have no answer for but we have possibilities. did anyone know about tectonic plates 100 years ago?
you guys are just throwing all those ideas out the window and just accept god's work as the ultimate answer, to that, what can i say? i'm trying to reply with evidance and theories but i'm returned with critisizm on unfinished theories and nothing but stories from the bible...why not the koran? torah? i'm no expert, do they all say the same thing?
theories are process of elimination, its always changing and evolving for better answer. discrediting theory is like judging an unfinished art work as if it was finished.
and about the shoebox theory, one of major factor in evolution is natural selection...i dont know if that has anything to do with watches but in terms of the universe it went something like this:
dust clouds are formed of hydrogen, helium, oxygen, other various elements. they're attracted to each other by their own gravity. as the dust ball gets bigger, gravity and density increases. once it is dense enough, the core will heat up and start to glow and cause thermonuclear reactions. this is the theory, we see it happening around us in far parts of our galaxy. now, the question is, where did these gas clouds come from?
two answers, super novas. dead stars will explode and during that process new elments are created like gold, platinum, those will later gather up and repeat the process. process of stars dying and reborn creats new elements. but how is the very first formed? where did the clouds come from? thats where big bang theory comes into play.
similar stories for planets. this theory was worked on for many, many years until evidance and more theories were put on top of it. it was made possible by many scientists looking for answers and to increase our knowledge.
the bible in its current forms (gospels and all) was completed sometime in the 4th century AD (thats the 300'sAD) while modern science didnt start until Galileo.
so how could the bible make any sense scientifically if it was finalized more than a millennium before science was created
lets thing of all the "basic" scientific ideas we take for granted that religion deemed at one time or another to be heresy.
earth is round
earth is not the center of the universe
earth is not the center of the solar system
anyone here care to dispute those?
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example of a theory:
because of the curvature of the sea and disappearing ships in the sea, i can say that the earth is probably rounded. this was not clearly proven until we sent a ship out of space. so, is this just a theory?
same can be said about evolution, big bang, as it was said about tectonic plates, gravity, einsteins theory of relativity, do i need to say more?
science has improved our knowledge beyond imagine 1000 years ago, yet it is thrown away like garbage by those who refuse to understand or hear it without chance.
what i'm saying is, one makes sense either way, one makes sense only if you believe in it.
because of the curvature of the sea and disappearing ships in the sea, i can say that the earth is probably rounded. this was not clearly proven until we sent a ship out of space. so, is this just a theory?
same can be said about evolution, big bang, as it was said about tectonic plates, gravity, einsteins theory of relativity, do i need to say more?
science has improved our knowledge beyond imagine 1000 years ago, yet it is thrown away like garbage by those who refuse to understand or hear it without chance.
what i'm saying is, one makes sense either way, one makes sense only if you believe in it.
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right, it was theorized but there was no "hard proof" until we actually saw it outer space just to shut those who still didnt believe it for some unknown reason.
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let me put on my flame suite really quick...
I am not a hardcore Christian like some folks, but this is what I know and have experienced... I started attending church and Sunday school at the age of 12 and was baptized couple of years later. But I did not 'experience God' until ~18.
For those that truly believe, have 'experienced' God. And that experience is something one must go through and can't just take the word of someone else. Christians are to spread the word/existence of God, not to pass judgment or to force the believe upon someone. We were created in His image and we do our best to live by/out His words. Unfortunate, none of us are perfect, which makes our life even more difficult when spreading His words. To me, the bible was only created as a bridge/foundation. Finding God and walking the path is entirely up to us.
I might not be the best to explain this, but I'll try... There is no common prove one can provide to prove the existence of God. God communicates in a rather different and unique form. If you ask for prove and keep an OPEN MIND, you will experience it. Having an open mind is easier said than done. Many Christians including myself have a hard time. Because we (I know I do) often choose what we like to hear and reject and avoid the opposite.
I can't begin to comment on the none believers for I have no right to pass judgment. Best I can do is to share my personal experience with God and my interpretation of the bible (understand it might not be the most accurate interpretation, but I also believe God's word speak to us in different ways in order to show us the path to righteousness).
Flame away!
I am not a hardcore Christian like some folks, but this is what I know and have experienced... I started attending church and Sunday school at the age of 12 and was baptized couple of years later. But I did not 'experience God' until ~18.
For those that truly believe, have 'experienced' God. And that experience is something one must go through and can't just take the word of someone else. Christians are to spread the word/existence of God, not to pass judgment or to force the believe upon someone. We were created in His image and we do our best to live by/out His words. Unfortunate, none of us are perfect, which makes our life even more difficult when spreading His words. To me, the bible was only created as a bridge/foundation. Finding God and walking the path is entirely up to us.
I might not be the best to explain this, but I'll try... There is no common prove one can provide to prove the existence of God. God communicates in a rather different and unique form. If you ask for prove and keep an OPEN MIND, you will experience it. Having an open mind is easier said than done. Many Christians including myself have a hard time. Because we (I know I do) often choose what we like to hear and reject and avoid the opposite.
I can't begin to comment on the none believers for I have no right to pass judgment. Best I can do is to share my personal experience with God and my interpretation of the bible (understand it might not be the most accurate interpretation, but I also believe God's word speak to us in different ways in order to show us the path to righteousness).
Flame away!
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i only read half of the post.
this is my 2 cents
#1 Jesus was an actual person, they know he existed, he was a real man. The debate is whether he was really the son of god.
#2 No one can prove or disprove god, just like no one can prove that evolution is real. Its what one group claims against another.
Some people can find similarities in one animal to the next to prove evolution, some people can show of one miracle or happening to prove God exist.
This is where the word FAITH comes in. Either you have it or you dont.
Just in my own point of view i look at it like this:
On the religious side, sayign that God is real:
God Created heaven and the stars takes 7 days to create everything, boom Earth.
My only thign to say to that is maybe it wasnt 7 literal days. Maybe one day was 1 billion years. No where does it say 24 hours was a day.
What if God made everything so ****ing complicated so that it could never be proven whether he exists or not. Maybe he didnt want people to have the simple answer. So he decided to make it so either people have FAITH he exist or they dont. He gives people reason to doubt, or they can continue to believe and after they die they pay off is there. or if he isnt real you end up in the ground.
And people say "why did God let 9/11 happen or this tragedy or that?"
why blame it on God, how do you know it wasnt the evil force at work that made that happen. It is said that God does not control free will, thats one of the gifts we have is to make our own decisions.
I look at it like this, and i know it sounds crazy, but this is how i make sense of it. God and Satan are playing poker, God whens some bets, he loses some bets, when he loses satan gets to do whatever horrible thing he wants, tsunami in the east, 9/11 in the US, etc. etc.
ok but now when God win good things happen. Plane crashes in the hudson, everyone survives. baby falls 22 feet from a balcony and has minor injuries.
think about how complex things are though,
The human Body for example, our bodies are such awesome functioning "machines" that when we feel pain our bodies create its own natural pain killer, when we get sick our bodies have there own defenses to fight it off. look how complicated our arteries and vein highway systems are. the Brain, look how complex that thing is. hwo can you say there wasnt another acting force.
now the other side.
Evolution
Big Bang happens. atoms collide, dust and bacteria fly from a distant planet, react to the preferable climate of earth and like starts from a single cell.
Animals evolve, structures of life become more complicated as the animals and plants grow. presto life on earth
Natural disasters happen cuz they happen. The earth tries to natrually keep its self stable. Horrible man made tragedies happen cuz they happen.
ok, thats fine and there is proof on that end that those same things happen. but like religion there are many things that cant be proven either.
evolution is a bit believeable also, the only thing that is a far stretch for me is the big bang theory.
all matter in the universe is compacted to something that is smaller than a period at the end of a sentence and it magically becomes the universe we know to this day. seems a bit of a stretch to me, i personally believe a greater force got the ball rolling.
and IMHO: the big bang is a cop out for people that cant prove or have faith that something else started everything, doesnt have to be spiritual, just has to be something better than "it wasnt and then it was just because", i know someone will say that technically the religious route, but at least that has someone (God) making everything not things just creating themselves spontaneously.
I dont go to church, i used to, i just have more own personal relationship with a higher power. and as wocain said, i have seen and experienced my own personal things to believe that perhaps "the big man" does indeed exist.
this is my 2 cents
#1 Jesus was an actual person, they know he existed, he was a real man. The debate is whether he was really the son of god.
#2 No one can prove or disprove god, just like no one can prove that evolution is real. Its what one group claims against another.
Some people can find similarities in one animal to the next to prove evolution, some people can show of one miracle or happening to prove God exist.
This is where the word FAITH comes in. Either you have it or you dont.
Just in my own point of view i look at it like this:
On the religious side, sayign that God is real:
God Created heaven and the stars takes 7 days to create everything, boom Earth.
My only thign to say to that is maybe it wasnt 7 literal days. Maybe one day was 1 billion years. No where does it say 24 hours was a day.
What if God made everything so ****ing complicated so that it could never be proven whether he exists or not. Maybe he didnt want people to have the simple answer. So he decided to make it so either people have FAITH he exist or they dont. He gives people reason to doubt, or they can continue to believe and after they die they pay off is there. or if he isnt real you end up in the ground.
And people say "why did God let 9/11 happen or this tragedy or that?"
why blame it on God, how do you know it wasnt the evil force at work that made that happen. It is said that God does not control free will, thats one of the gifts we have is to make our own decisions.
I look at it like this, and i know it sounds crazy, but this is how i make sense of it. God and Satan are playing poker, God whens some bets, he loses some bets, when he loses satan gets to do whatever horrible thing he wants, tsunami in the east, 9/11 in the US, etc. etc.
ok but now when God win good things happen. Plane crashes in the hudson, everyone survives. baby falls 22 feet from a balcony and has minor injuries.
think about how complex things are though,
The human Body for example, our bodies are such awesome functioning "machines" that when we feel pain our bodies create its own natural pain killer, when we get sick our bodies have there own defenses to fight it off. look how complicated our arteries and vein highway systems are. the Brain, look how complex that thing is. hwo can you say there wasnt another acting force.
now the other side.
Evolution
Big Bang happens. atoms collide, dust and bacteria fly from a distant planet, react to the preferable climate of earth and like starts from a single cell.
Animals evolve, structures of life become more complicated as the animals and plants grow. presto life on earth
Natural disasters happen cuz they happen. The earth tries to natrually keep its self stable. Horrible man made tragedies happen cuz they happen.
ok, thats fine and there is proof on that end that those same things happen. but like religion there are many things that cant be proven either.
evolution is a bit believeable also, the only thing that is a far stretch for me is the big bang theory.
all matter in the universe is compacted to something that is smaller than a period at the end of a sentence and it magically becomes the universe we know to this day. seems a bit of a stretch to me, i personally believe a greater force got the ball rolling.
and IMHO: the big bang is a cop out for people that cant prove or have faith that something else started everything, doesnt have to be spiritual, just has to be something better than "it wasnt and then it was just because", i know someone will say that technically the religious route, but at least that has someone (God) making everything not things just creating themselves spontaneously.
I dont go to church, i used to, i just have more own personal relationship with a higher power. and as wocain said, i have seen and experienced my own personal things to believe that perhaps "the big man" does indeed exist.
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Evolution is not a belief.
Religion = Belief. Evolution = FACT.
There is so much overwhelming evidence supporting evolution. Open your eyes. No really. Open them. It is occurring in various species, including humans as I type this. There is macroevolution, like with humans that occurs over long periods of time OR microevolution that can be observed in bacteria becoming resistant to drugs in front of a scientists eyes or finches beaks changing length in over just a decade, thus leading to new genetic variations of finches.
This fact comes from geneticists, biologists, anthropologists, geologists.. etc I am too tired to keep driving the point.
Some of you people need to get an education so you actually sound credible. Please do not mix up the terms "theory, fact, belief, faith" etc. It makes you sound ignant.
Religion = Belief. Evolution = FACT.
There is so much overwhelming evidence supporting evolution. Open your eyes. No really. Open them. It is occurring in various species, including humans as I type this. There is macroevolution, like with humans that occurs over long periods of time OR microevolution that can be observed in bacteria becoming resistant to drugs in front of a scientists eyes or finches beaks changing length in over just a decade, thus leading to new genetic variations of finches.
This fact comes from geneticists, biologists, anthropologists, geologists.. etc I am too tired to keep driving the point.
Some of you people need to get an education so you actually sound credible. Please do not mix up the terms "theory, fact, belief, faith" etc. It makes you sound ignant.
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Oh and the universe.
As far as I am concerned, scientists really no **** about the universe, but the people who have a grasp on the universe comprehend ideas that most people cannot.
As far as I am concerned, scientists really no **** about the universe, but the people who have a grasp on the universe comprehend ideas that most people cannot.
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Noah gathering up 2 of every creature on earth comes to mind. It is a physical impossibility to place 2 of every creature in a boat 500 cubits by 500 cubits by 300 cubits.
Thats not even going into the whole adam and eve stuff. Do you have any clue how genetically impossible it is to have a viable species from only 2 DNA sources? Even with 10 pairs of DNA/RNA you can not make a viable species outside of 12 generations.
Thats not even going into the whole adam and eve stuff. Do you have any clue how genetically impossible it is to have a viable species from only 2 DNA sources? Even with 10 pairs of DNA/RNA you can not make a viable species outside of 12 generations.
Youre totally right as far as i know that you need quite a few DNA sources to have a healthy species, but it seems like you skip over the fact that two humans poofed out of thin air. If humans can poof out of thin air, im sure they can create an entire species.
so are you saying that god timed it so that the word of christianity will spread at the rate he wanted depending on the level of human civilization and advancement? isnt that too convinient to say? because everything already happened and there is no way to prove anything...since there is nothing that can be proven, the words of god seems to fit in perfectly.
What gives you such confidence in saying satan was'nt involved in the slightest way? you cant just say he wasnt.
lol i tried telling this to a certain member who kept ctrl c/v his unanswered question "what loving god would let something so horrible happen?", i finally answered it in the way you did above and he said i didn't make any sense lol.
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its a valid question and no one has answered it yet. if god is so infinitely loving and merciful why does he allow children, especially his followers, to suffer so much.