religion argument
02-23-2009, 07:40 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 3,856
Car Info: Forester XTi
religion argument
I could say it the other way...
Its sad to see a lot of people who can't think for themselves and feel the need to believe in something with no proof of existence. It is easier to believe than not, you are right on that...and its a sign of someone who can't think for themselves.
And yes I was offended to an extreme by your post...unfortunaly its what I have found to be typical for most christians and their thoughts on others. The whole "love your brother" goes right out the window when your 'brother' doesn't believe in the same thing they do.
Don't be such a sanctimonious ***** man. Some people don't wish to believe in what you do, and some of us believe in other ideals. That does not make you any better than us.
Last edited by Overbear; 02-23-2009 at 07:44 AM.
02-23-2009, 07:47 AM
#2
Registered User
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pleasanton /La Jolla
Posts: 3,184
Car Info: 2005 Stg.2 Wrx
^ haha i dont want any arguments here because it is impossible to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a God. but i have enough miracles in my life to believe and its certainly a joyous experience i cant regret. i hope you get a chance to actually explore the other side before rejecting it.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
02-23-2009, 07:55 AM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 3,856
Car Info: Forester XTi
^ haha i dont want any arguments here because it is impossible to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a God. but i have enough miracles in my life to believe and its certainly a joyous experience i cant regret. i hope you get a chance to actually explore the other side before rejecting it.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
Now, I believe in what science can prove to me. My faith is in my fellow man and in humanity not in a (no offense meant ok)"ghost in the clouds". I hold dear to what mankind can do for itself.
but at the end of the day we are all subie owners
02-23-2009, 08:35 AM
#4
Sorry dude, I get a bit touchy about the whole 'god' thing. I did "explore" as you say, that side. I was a 'born again' Christian, up tell I started to truly look at the religion. I saw the lies told by the church, the hypocrisy, the hate taught to the young (remember, the WBC is a Christian church too) and I walked away from it all.
Now, I believe in what science can prove to me. My faith is in my fellow man and in humanity not in a (no offense meant ok)"ghost in the clouds". I hold dear to what mankind can do for itself.
but at the end of the day we are all subie owners
Now, I believe in what science can prove to me. My faith is in my fellow man and in humanity not in a (no offense meant ok)"ghost in the clouds". I hold dear to what mankind can do for itself.
but at the end of the day we are all subie owners
but jesus is all good
you have be able to tell the difference between teh two
02-23-2009, 09:06 AM
#6
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Leandro, CA
Posts: 3,856
Car Info: Forester XTi
02-23-2009, 09:20 AM
#7
VIP Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 22,776
Car Info: '13 BRZ Limited / '02 WRX
^ haha i dont want any arguments here because it is impossible to scientifically prove or disprove the existence of a God. but i have enough miracles in my life to believe and its certainly a joyous experience i cant regret. i hope you get a chance to actually explore the other side before rejecting it.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
i dont think kyle meant that we're any better for believing in God. afterall, you do have an xti.
Kyle's post attacked non-Christians. It was within Overbear's right to react to the attack on HIS beliefs.
02-23-2009, 10:34 AM
#8
I could say it the other way...
Its sad to see a lot of people who can't think for themselves and feel the need to believe in something with no proof of existence. It is easier to believe than not, you are right on that...and its a sign of someone who can't think for themselves.
And yes I was offended to an extreme by your post...unfortunaly its what I have found to be typical for most christians and their thoughts on others. The whole "love your brother" goes right out the window when your 'brother' doesn't believe in the same thing they do.
Don't be such a sanctimonious ***** man. Some people don't wish to believe in what you do, and some of us believe in other ideals. That does not make you any better than us.
Its sad to see a lot of people who can't think for themselves and feel the need to believe in something with no proof of existence. It is easier to believe than not, you are right on that...and its a sign of someone who can't think for themselves.
And yes I was offended to an extreme by your post...unfortunaly its what I have found to be typical for most christians and their thoughts on others. The whole "love your brother" goes right out the window when your 'brother' doesn't believe in the same thing they do.
Don't be such a sanctimonious ***** man. Some people don't wish to believe in what you do, and some of us believe in other ideals. That does not make you any better than us.
So you saw the inner workings of the "church" and got jaded. Welcome to the club. I spent 6 years working with youth in 2 different churches and even went to bible college. I've seen the financial reports in depth of a church with a 3 million a year budget. It's sad.
But I suppose you've met MOST christians and they were all self righteous. Sorry but the only self righteous post I read in this thread was yours.
I actually read the opposite in kyle posts... he sounded like he cared more about his brother... not throwing love your brother out the window.
You do realize there is a difference between the "church" with 4 walls you speak (organized religion) and God, right?
i honestly hope this thread doesn't get shut down. Religion is offensive. So what. I love a good debate. haaaa.
02-23-2009, 10:48 AM
#9
VIP Member
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 22,776
Car Info: '13 BRZ Limited / '02 WRX
I didn't read anything offensive until I read this post. Kyle expressed sadness because he feels others are missing out. He didn't say anything negative about anyone directly... unless of course you identify yourself as lost? He didn't even make a generalizing comment... such as "most".
So you saw the inner workings of the "church" and got jaded. Welcome to the club. I spent 6 years working with youth in 2 different churches and even went to bible college. I've seen the financial reports in depth of a church with a 3 million a year budget. It's sad.
But I suppose you've met MOST christians and they were all self righteous. Sorry but the only self righteous post I read in this thread was yours.
I actually read the opposite in kyle posts... he sounded like he cared more about his brother... not throwing love your brother out the window.
You do realize there is a difference between the "church" with 4 walls you speak (organized religion) and God, right?
i honestly hope this thread doesn't get shut down. Religion is offensive. So what. I love a good debate. haaaa.
So you saw the inner workings of the "church" and got jaded. Welcome to the club. I spent 6 years working with youth in 2 different churches and even went to bible college. I've seen the financial reports in depth of a church with a 3 million a year budget. It's sad.
But I suppose you've met MOST christians and they were all self righteous. Sorry but the only self righteous post I read in this thread was yours.
I actually read the opposite in kyle posts... he sounded like he cared more about his brother... not throwing love your brother out the window.
You do realize there is a difference between the "church" with 4 walls you speak (organized religion) and God, right?
i honestly hope this thread doesn't get shut down. Religion is offensive. So what. I love a good debate. haaaa.
a) I do not appreciate people judging me and saying that I'm "lost" because I'm not part of Christianity.
b) To say that I think I am "too good" to believe in a higher power because I'm not a Christian is ****ed up.
-Just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher power.
-Not believing in a higher power doesn't mean I'm some arrogant ***** that thinks I am the best thing walking this Earth.
c) You're calling Overbear out for judging the Christian community as a whole while only knowing a few of its members, but isn't Kyle doing the same thing with the non-Christian community?
d) The arrogance that came across in Kyle's statement doesn't make me believe that he is genuinely saddened about our fate. It seems more of the "holier than thou" pity.
I have nothing with religion or peoples' beliefs. I do not, however, tolerate people thinking/implying that their religion is better than (or right vs. wrong) the next religion and/or that they are better than the next person (or that they are right and must therefore push their views on the poor non-believers) because of their beliefs. This is why Kyle's post came across as rather offensive to me.
Last edited by VRT MBasile; 02-23-2009 at 10:59 AM.
02-23-2009, 10:55 AM
#10
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hangin in Placerville youtube.com/rallydude1515
Posts: 11,892
Car Info: 1999 RS Coupé- 1995 Mazda Miata -KTM 300
Thank you Ray
So many overbearing replies in this thread!
Seems like every reply you make is negative, so you calling me a ***** doesn't hold much value 
I don't push religion on anyone, i have lots of friends that laugh anytime Jesus or God is brought up and it confuses me and worries me that they may not go to the same place i will when we die.
You can think positively through life knowing that your spirit carries on after your life on earth has ended
Or you can go thru life thinking you're gonna rot in the ground, so live it up while you can.
Knowing I'm gonna see my sister, grandmas and grandpas again in Heaven is a great feeling, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Maybe others are right thinking for themselves, nobody really knows.
But it's no coincidence that all the great people that i've met in my life are religious in some sort, and the people that aren't are just...meh...for the most part. They just seem to be more negative overall. And i'm not saying you cant be positive, i'm just saying i've noticed i find better quality people when they are involved in some sort of religion.
So many overbearing replies in this thread!
Seems like every reply you make is negative, so you calling me a ***** doesn't hold much value I don't push religion on anyone, i have lots of friends that laugh anytime Jesus or God is brought up and it confuses me and worries me that they may not go to the same place i will when we die.
You can think positively through life knowing that your spirit carries on after your life on earth has ended
Or you can go thru life thinking you're gonna rot in the ground, so live it up while you can.
Knowing I'm gonna see my sister, grandmas and grandpas again in Heaven is a great feeling, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Maybe others are right thinking for themselves, nobody really knows.
But it's no coincidence that all the great people that i've met in my life are religious in some sort, and the people that aren't are just...meh...for the most part. They just seem to be more negative overall. And i'm not saying you cant be positive, i'm just saying i've noticed i find better quality people when they are involved in some sort of religion.
02-23-2009, 11:00 AM
#12
I don't need more cowbell dammit!
iTrader: (5)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Equally as important as Walter
Posts: 3,203
Car Info: E82
+1... sorry but Overbear wasnt the only one offended, it offended me, i just chose to keep it to myself. Now people want to attack Overbear for responded to a comment sent his way. No one said anything disrespectful to the OP for being baptized, it was in responce to comments made to the "non believing"
02-23-2009, 11:01 AM
#13
Ray, to me, this was the offensive part of Kyle's post.
a) I do not appreciate people judging me and saying that I'm "lost" because I'm not part of Christianity.
b) To say that I think I am "too good" to believe in a higher power because I'm not a Christian is ****ed up.
-Just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher power.
-Not believing in a higher power doesn't mean I'm some arrogant ***** that thinks I am the best thing walking this Earth.
c) You're calling Overbear out for judging the Christian community as a whole while only knowing a few of its members, but isn't Kyle doing the same thing with the non-Christian community?
d) The arrogance that came across in Kyle's statement doesn't make me believe that he is genuinely saddened about our fate. It seems more of the "holier than thou" pity.
a) I do not appreciate people judging me and saying that I'm "lost" because I'm not part of Christianity.
b) To say that I think I am "too good" to believe in a higher power because I'm not a Christian is ****ed up.
-Just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher power.
-Not believing in a higher power doesn't mean I'm some arrogant ***** that thinks I am the best thing walking this Earth.
c) You're calling Overbear out for judging the Christian community as a whole while only knowing a few of its members, but isn't Kyle doing the same thing with the non-Christian community?
d) The arrogance that came across in Kyle's statement doesn't make me believe that he is genuinely saddened about our fate. It seems more of the "holier than thou" pity.
I see your point. But knowing Kyle and knowing enough "religious" folks in my day I understand where he's coming from and I don't think he ment it that way. He just feels for people and he believes what he believes. The belief system he believes in says that anyone not born again is going to hell. He believes in that God and thus believes in that part of scripture. So all he's saying is he feels sorry for those people. That's honorable in my opinion. It's just a hard thing to get across without being offensive. Impossible actually.
02-23-2009, 11:02 AM
#14
Registered User
iTrader: (24)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Yea, you like my JDM backside. Quit staring ^^
Posts: 3,250
Car Info: A crazy ass wagon ! Voltex and 18x9.5 +22 FTW !
[QUOTE=kYLEMtnCRUZr;2532502]Thank you Ray
So many overbearing replies in this thread! Seems like every reply you make is negative, so you calling me a ***** doesn't hold much value
I don't push religion on anyone, i have lots of friends that laugh anytime Jesus or God is brought up and it confuses me and worries me that they may not go to the same place i will when we die.
You can think positively through life knowing that your spirit carries on after your life on earth has ended
Or you can go thru life thinking you're gonna rot in the ground, so live it up while you can.
Knowing I'm gonna see my sister, grandmas and grandpas again in Heaven is a great feeling, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Maybe others are right thinking for themselves, nobody really knows.
But it's no coincidence that all the great people that i've met in my life are religious in some sort, and the people that aren't are just...meh...for the most part. They just seem to be more negative overall. And i'm not saying you cant be positive, i'm just saying i've noticed i find better quality people when they are involved in some sort of religion.[QUOTE]
LOL ! LOL ! I love it... so basically if you feel like someone is a positive influence in your life... THEY MUST BE CHRISTIAN lol... so if you met me and you thought i was a nice guy... nice attitude.. do you then ask me if im a christian ? or do you just assume cause i was nice i am? Oh thats right, im not christian... so ide just be ... ehhh... to you right off the bat. LOL how do you know who is and isnt Christian. All those influential teachers or speakers you've ever heard... all the people you like on this forum... THEY MUST BE CHRISTIAN's right !
So many overbearing replies in this thread!
Seems like every reply you make is negative, so you calling me a ***** doesn't hold much value I don't push religion on anyone, i have lots of friends that laugh anytime Jesus or God is brought up and it confuses me and worries me that they may not go to the same place i will when we die.
You can think positively through life knowing that your spirit carries on after your life on earth has ended
Or you can go thru life thinking you're gonna rot in the ground, so live it up while you can.
Knowing I'm gonna see my sister, grandmas and grandpas again in Heaven is a great feeling, and i wouldn't have it any other way.
Maybe others are right thinking for themselves, nobody really knows.
But it's no coincidence that all the great people that i've met in my life are religious in some sort, and the people that aren't are just...meh...for the most part. They just seem to be more negative overall. And i'm not saying you cant be positive, i'm just saying i've noticed i find better quality people when they are involved in some sort of religion.[QUOTE]
LOL ! LOL ! I love it... so basically if you feel like someone is a positive influence in your life... THEY MUST BE CHRISTIAN lol... so if you met me and you thought i was a nice guy... nice attitude.. do you then ask me if im a christian ? or do you just assume cause i was nice i am? Oh thats right, im not christian... so ide just be ... ehhh... to you right off the bat. LOL how do you know who is and isnt Christian. All those influential teachers or speakers you've ever heard... all the people you like on this forum... THEY MUST BE CHRISTIAN's right !
02-23-2009, 11:04 AM
#15
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hangin in Placerville youtube.com/rallydude1515
Posts: 11,892
Car Info: 1999 RS Coupé- 1995 Mazda Miata -KTM 300
Ray, to me, this was the offensive part of Kyle's post.
a) I do not appreciate people judging me and saying that I'm "lost" because I'm not part of Christianity.
b) To say that I think I am "too good" to believe in a higher power because I'm not a Christian is ****ed up.
-Just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher power.
-Not believing in a higher power doesn't mean I'm some arrogant ***** that thinks I am the best thing walking this Earth.
c) You're calling Overbear out for judging the Christian community as a whole while only knowing a few of its members, but isn't Kyle doing the same thing with the non-Christian community?
d) The arrogance that came across in Kyle's statement doesn't make me believe that he is genuinely saddened about our fate. It seems more of the "holier than thou" pity.
a) I do not appreciate people judging me and saying that I'm "lost" because I'm not part of Christianity.
b) To say that I think I am "too good" to believe in a higher power because I'm not a Christian is ****ed up.
-Just because I'm not a Christian, doesn't mean I don't believe in a higher power.
-Not believing in a higher power doesn't mean I'm some arrogant ***** that thinks I am the best thing walking this Earth.
c) You're calling Overbear out for judging the Christian community as a whole while only knowing a few of its members, but isn't Kyle doing the same thing with the non-Christian community?
d) The arrogance that came across in Kyle's statement doesn't make me believe that he is genuinely saddened about our fate. It seems more of the "holier than thou" pity.
I know lots of people that don't believe in anything and they are good people. I dont hold it against them either. Yeah some Christians get all up in your face walking downtown Santa Cruz or SF trying to push God on you, and i think that is wrong.
The fact is this was a specific religious thread. Others can make all the Scientology, Buddhist, Darwin whatever threads and say whatever they want in them. Sure i might click them, but im not gonna be offended by what they say within that thread, because they believe what they want.