religion argument
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Okay, since I went to school for comparative religion and philosophy, I think I should toss out a couple of ideas here. Though every time I do nobody cares and either goes on mocking religion or blindly defending it.
The idea youre trying to express here has been made countless times, and its basically "If there is a God, why does he let bad things happen to good people?"
Very valid question, but it all depends on how you see our relationship with our Higher Power/ Higher Consciousness/ Ultimate Reality, etc.
This feeling is especially strong in western Semitic religions where they perceive UR as a personal higher power compared to most eastern religions where they view UR as a trans-personal higher power.
Anyhow, I think the best answer to your question is an example my old CR professor made. Imagine you were a bunch fleas living on the back of a dog. One day you all became self aware, and started trying to understand your universe and your place in it. You realized there was a higher lever of existence then you were experiencing that you knew you were a part of but could not fully comprehend, and now you want to establish your relationship with this higher power. You decide to call this higher power, Dog. (Funny how thats God spelled backwards huh?)
Anyhow, You know that you are inextricably connected to Dog, and that you owe your existence to Dogs existence. And that you and your entire race could not live without Dog, he is higher and more powerful than all of you. So for you to try to connect with this higher power, and to give more meaning to your own existence, you begin to worship Dog, and petition Dog for favors in exchange for your devotion.
And while you continue to thrive and prosper off of Dogs bounty, good and bad things continue to happen to the faithful and unfaithful alike, regardless of the amount of devotion any of the fleas have shown. This confuses most of the fleas, and makes them question the existence of Dog altogether.
The reality is, there is indeed a higher power and level of existence in the universe that the fleas can never fully understand. And they are right that it is Dog, and certainly there is even more above Dog that they cant even begin to remotely be aware of. But in the end for the fleas and ourselves, our higher power does not punish or reward, and cannot be petitioned or bribed with faith. But that does not mean because we nor the fleas have a direct one-on-one relationship with our higher power, and that this higher power doesn't directly intervene in our own personal affairs, that there is no higher power or expression of consciousness more than that which we can experience as humans. That would be foolishly arrogant to think that we little human beings are the highest expression of consciousness in this entire universe/reality.
In the end, the fleas will have to live on, appreciating the fact that they have evolved enough to at least realize that there is indeed a higher level of existence above their own ability to experience on their mortal level, but instead of spending their lives devoted to worshiping this UR in hopes of an eternity of reward, or in fear of an eternity of punishment, they should instead devote their lives to improving themselves and their own communities. And just maybe, trying to gain a better understanding of their place within Dogs universe without actually establishing a personal relationship with Dog.
Okay, hope that didnt come out too rambling, just got back from the bar and remembering why after college I never even bother throwing myself into these types of discussions in the first place haha
Okay, well thats all this flea has to say about it right now. time for bed
The idea youre trying to express here has been made countless times, and its basically "If there is a God, why does he let bad things happen to good people?"
Very valid question, but it all depends on how you see our relationship with our Higher Power/ Higher Consciousness/ Ultimate Reality, etc.
This feeling is especially strong in western Semitic religions where they perceive UR as a personal higher power compared to most eastern religions where they view UR as a trans-personal higher power.
Anyhow, I think the best answer to your question is an example my old CR professor made. Imagine you were a bunch fleas living on the back of a dog. One day you all became self aware, and started trying to understand your universe and your place in it. You realized there was a higher lever of existence then you were experiencing that you knew you were a part of but could not fully comprehend, and now you want to establish your relationship with this higher power. You decide to call this higher power, Dog. (Funny how thats God spelled backwards huh?)
Anyhow, You know that you are inextricably connected to Dog, and that you owe your existence to Dogs existence. And that you and your entire race could not live without Dog, he is higher and more powerful than all of you. So for you to try to connect with this higher power, and to give more meaning to your own existence, you begin to worship Dog, and petition Dog for favors in exchange for your devotion.
And while you continue to thrive and prosper off of Dogs bounty, good and bad things continue to happen to the faithful and unfaithful alike, regardless of the amount of devotion any of the fleas have shown. This confuses most of the fleas, and makes them question the existence of Dog altogether.
The reality is, there is indeed a higher power and level of existence in the universe that the fleas can never fully understand. And they are right that it is Dog, and certainly there is even more above Dog that they cant even begin to remotely be aware of. But in the end for the fleas and ourselves, our higher power does not punish or reward, and cannot be petitioned or bribed with faith. But that does not mean because we nor the fleas have a direct one-on-one relationship with our higher power, and that this higher power doesn't directly intervene in our own personal affairs, that there is no higher power or expression of consciousness more than that which we can experience as humans. That would be foolishly arrogant to think that we little human beings are the highest expression of consciousness in this entire universe/reality.
In the end, the fleas will have to live on, appreciating the fact that they have evolved enough to at least realize that there is indeed a higher level of existence above their own ability to experience on their mortal level, but instead of spending their lives devoted to worshiping this UR in hopes of an eternity of reward, or in fear of an eternity of punishment, they should instead devote their lives to improving themselves and their own communities. And just maybe, trying to gain a better understanding of their place within Dogs universe without actually establishing a personal relationship with Dog.
Okay, hope that didnt come out too rambling, just got back from the bar and remembering why after college I never even bother throwing myself into these types of discussions in the first place haha
Okay, well thats all this flea has to say about it right now. time for bed
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it was from the Nkorea satellite or missle thread.
https://www.i-club.com/forums/teh-politics-forum-114/nkorea-prepares-launch-satellite-missile-200052/
Last edited by Irish_car_B0mb; Feb 25, 2009 at 11:30 AM.
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arguing about religion is like arguing with a drunk...
you might as well not do it cuz you arent gonna get anywhere with it.
you might as well not do it cuz you arent gonna get anywhere with it.
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