Another S^2 tune gone bad... :(
I was just out with Ed to check out my a/f ratios. They were around 11.5-11.7:1. The car was protuned by S-S back in September and is only a stage 2 wrx. I heard good stuff about Nate and trusted his tuning, but it was just a waste of my money to get it tuned at all since I'm now back to running the cobb ots map. I don't drive my car too aggressively, so hopefully not too much damage was done. The next step is to get a compression test. Hopefully all is well. Big thanks to Ed for potentially saving me lots time and money in the future.
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Originally Posted by Egan
Besides, there is no way I'm putting my car on the dyno until Paul gets some shorter tie-downs. I really don't want to bend my aluminum lateral links. 
hint, hint
hint, hintBut since you didn't bother to come for my grand opening, you wouldn't know anything about them, now would you.
The rear is now secured at the factory strap down points, than you very much.
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Hey, asshat, I purposely went out and got new straps just for you.
But since you didn't bother to come for my grand opening, you wouldn't know anything about them, now would you.
The rear is now secured at the factory strap down points, than you very much.
But since you didn't bother to come for my grand opening, you wouldn't know anything about them, now would you.
The rear is now secured at the factory strap down points, than you very much.
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Originally Posted by prspect06
I was just out with Ed to check out my a/f ratios. They were around 11.5-11.7:1. The car was protuned by S-S back in September and is only a stage 2 wrx. I heard good stuff about Nate and trusted his tuning, but it was just a waste of my money to get it tuned at all since I'm now back to running the cobb ots map. I don't drive my car too aggressively, so hopefully not too much damage was done. The next step is to get a compression test. Hopefully all is well. Big thanks to Ed for potentially saving me lots time and money in the future.
Thanks
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Hey, asshat, I purposely went out and got new straps just for you.
But since you didn't bother to come for my grand opening, you wouldn't know anything about them, now would you.
The rear is now secured at the factory strap down points, than you very much.
But since you didn't bother to come for my grand opening, you wouldn't know anything about them, now would you.
The rear is now secured at the factory strap down points, than you very much.
At least that's what my wife said.
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Hey Guys,
I logged another WRX today that was tuned by S^2 in September. This car was running 11.6:1 by redline with knock correction going to or bellow zero by 5700RPM. Overall timing maxxed out at 15 degrees by redline. Just as a reference, most healthy tunes run atleast 26 degrees of advance by redline. There was also audible knock in 2-3 parts of the power band. The owner didn't have an EGT gauge, but I would expect EGT's to be around 1700 with this a/f and timing. The car has a TBE and UP and made 202whp/207ft-lbs.
It seems like every car I've seen lately that was tuned around that time exhibits characteristics very similar to this. Again, if you got tuned by S^2 and especially if it was around this time, I strongly suggest that you get the tune checked out even if the car may feel ok. This particular owner thought the car felt fine and didn't expect any issues but it ended up being one of the most dangerous tunes I've seen to date.
I hate bringing people bad news but its always better to find these things out sooner rather than later.
Thanks
I logged another WRX today that was tuned by S^2 in September. This car was running 11.6:1 by redline with knock correction going to or bellow zero by 5700RPM. Overall timing maxxed out at 15 degrees by redline. Just as a reference, most healthy tunes run atleast 26 degrees of advance by redline. There was also audible knock in 2-3 parts of the power band. The owner didn't have an EGT gauge, but I would expect EGT's to be around 1700 with this a/f and timing. The car has a TBE and UP and made 202whp/207ft-lbs.
It seems like every car I've seen lately that was tuned around that time exhibits characteristics very similar to this. Again, if you got tuned by S^2 and especially if it was around this time, I strongly suggest that you get the tune checked out even if the car may feel ok. This particular owner thought the car felt fine and didn't expect any issues but it ended up being one of the most dangerous tunes I've seen to date.
I hate bringing people bad news but its always better to find these things out sooner rather than later.
Thanks
Last edited by MethodBuilt; Feb 12, 2006 at 02:44 PM.
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Ed,
What AFR range are you considering 'safe' for torque peak and redline?
What did the knock correction tables look like on these unsafe cars?
What IAM was the ECU using?
-Dan
What AFR range are you considering 'safe' for torque peak and redline?
What did the knock correction tables look like on these unsafe cars?
What IAM was the ECU using?
-Dan
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Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3
Ed,
What AFR range are you considering 'safe' for torque peak and redline?
What did the knock correction tables look like on these unsafe cars?
What IAM was the ECU using?
-Dan
What AFR range are you considering 'safe' for torque peak and redline?
What did the knock correction tables look like on these unsafe cars?
What IAM was the ECU using?
-Dan
I cannot look at the fine learning tables of these cars since they were not tuned with Ecutek, so I'm going off what I see in the knock correction logs. They generally exhibit rapid dips in KC where current knock was detected and most of these cars go to negative KC in the upper RPM's.
The IAM's are generally at 16 which says that the learning authority ranges have been set impropperly not allowing the ECU to drop the IAM or even learn around knock at higher loads and RPM's.
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
Safe a/f depends on mods and model of car, but in general for california pump gas, 10.6-11.2 is safe for torque peak and 10.5-10.8 is safe at redline.
I cannot look at the fine learning tables of these cars since they were not tuned with Ecutek, so I'm going off what I see in the knock correction logs. They generally exhibit rapid dips in KC where current knock was detected and most of these cars go to negative KC in the upper RPM's.
The IAM's are generally at 16 which says that the learning authority ranges have been set impropperly not allowing the ECU to drop the IAM or even learn around knock at higher loads and RPM's.
I cannot look at the fine learning tables of these cars since they were not tuned with Ecutek, so I'm going off what I see in the knock correction logs. They generally exhibit rapid dips in KC where current knock was detected and most of these cars go to negative KC in the upper RPM's.
The IAM's are generally at 16 which says that the learning authority ranges have been set impropperly not allowing the ECU to drop the IAM or even learn around knock at higher loads and RPM's.
There's a knock learning table in ProTuner. You have to be connected to the ECU then select the table to get PT/ST to querry the values. But ya, logging the KC and comparing it to the base ignition and KC table(s) can tell you the same thing.
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Originally Posted by R4ND0M_AX3
I guess I was thinking of an STi with a TBE and Cali 91 pump.
There's a knock learning table in ProTuner. You have to be connected to the ECU then select the table to get PT/ST to querry the values. But ya, logging the KC and comparing it to the base ignition and KC table(s) can tell you the same thing.
There's a knock learning table in ProTuner. You have to be connected to the ECU then select the table to get PT/ST to querry the values. But ya, logging the KC and comparing it to the base ignition and KC table(s) can tell you the same thing.
For an STI with a TBE, I generally run 11.1:1 in the mid range and taper down to 10.5-10.7:1 by redline.
BTW, the a/f is not the only thing that makes a tune safe or unsafe. The cars I've examined also showed severe knock as a result of the lean a/f. This is what will really kill an engine in the end.
Thanks
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Origami posted by EQ Tuning
BTW, the a/f is not the only thing that makes a tune safe or unsafe. The cars I've examined also showed severe knock as a result of the lean a/f. This is what will really kill an engine in the end.
BTW, the a/f is not the only thing that makes a tune safe or unsafe. The cars I've examined also showed severe knock as a result of the lean a/f. This is what will really kill an engine in the end.
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
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Originally Posted by Wingless Wonder
Ed, did you intend to say 'incorrect ignition advance' or some other factor besides a/f ratio?
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
--
0==WW==0
"…axles of evil…" - george w. bush
From what I can see, it looks like the tune is attempting to run timing atleast near the appropriate range but due to the very lean a/f its encountering lots of knock and having to pull up to 9 degrees on some of the cars to stop the knock.
Another thing I've observed is that these cars don't seem to actually learn around the knock at high loads. Every time the ECU encounters these problem areas, it tries to run too much advance for the given a/f, knocks and pulls timing in response. The appropriate behaviour would be to learn to pull timing in these areas so that next time they're encountered, no knock will occure in the first place. This tells me that the ECU's knock learning authority range is not set propperly to encompass the higher load regions. This is a big problem because the engine knocks EVERY time it hits a problem area like this at high loads.
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