Fair enough.

 

When I say "mma noob", what I mean is like the person you described: the poser who states that he's a "no holds barred fighter" or "cage fighter" or whatnot. It's the guy that started getting into MMA when he saw Griffin vs. Bonnar 1 and decided that he could "do that too".

As you said, in pro competition, there are no paper champions since it's full contact combat. Very true.

But I was talking more about the guy that c-walks down the street in head-to-toe Tapout gear and stunner shades, talking tough even though he's only been in a gym less than a half dozen times. These kinda folks didn't exist a scant 5 years ago, right?

 

I'd say MMA is more of a rule-set, for lack of a better term.

If you think about it, all real life (and death) fights are "no holds barred", even moreso than MMA as it's defined today. I'd say the early UFC days when there were practically no rules are more akin to a "real" fight than your modern UFC fight.

That being said, verc's right when he states that today's "traditional martial arts" were once a non-primary method of fighting. In past times, the main means of fighting was through the use of weapons. Even "brutal" styles like Muay Thai were only for use when a weapon was lost; otherwise, the primary style for an ancient Thai soldier was Krabi Kabong, a weapons system from which Muay Thai was derived. Traditional kung fu too was a primarily weapon-based system, with empty hand systems used as a last ditch.

Nowadays though, it's kind of hard to walk around the street carrying a sword or spear, so empty hand systems have become a more primary means of self defense along with compact weapons-based systems like escrima or arnis (since's it easier to carry a knife).

Verc's also right when he says that the more open the rules you regularly practice under, the more of a chance you have of winning a real fight. Your standard Muay Thai fighter would do better than your standard Kyokushin Kaikan practitioner who would do better than your standard Taekwondo practitioner in a standing fight, speaking in VERY general terms. Likewise, your average Brazilian jiujitsu practitioner would do better than a Greco-Roman wrestler, who would in turn would do better than an Aikidoka in a grappling situation (again, VERY generally speaking). And of course, someone that trains under MMA rules or an MMA style such as command sambo, Shooto, or Daidoh Juku would do well in a real fight because they're trained to expect more of the "unexpected" in a real fight, at least moreso than a "martial artist" that trains under limited rules and ESPECIALLY someone who doesn't train at all.

 

I think what annoys me is that people think they can just pick up a discipline within a short time, and be an instant bad-***. I mean... very generally speaking. I don't doubt each respective arts their effectiveness, but what annoys the hell out of me is when someone with little or no martial art background talks as if he is going to become a badass. Just like anything else, if you want to become good in something, got to put time into it.

 

*DING DING DING* Give this man a prize, you hit the nail on the head! That's what I mean re: "MMA n00bs" The guy that SAYS he's a badass is the poser 9 times out of 10; you fight enough, you know that there is always a degree of luck that separates winning, losing, and getting really jacked up. That knowledge makes a real fighter smarter than to claim he is "the best".

On a completely unrelated note, there are some styles that make a person a more "effective" fighter in a shorter amount of time due to the combination of simplicity and potency of the style's techniques; that is, the practicality of a style, if you will.

 

Still got to do the time though. I mean... if you are talented and driven, you can probably learn it in a short amount of time, but in one form or another, you still have to do your time. Sure... the experienced MMA fighters can pick up a wealth of knowledge within no time, but keep in mind that they 1) already have a martial art background and 2) they train what? 8-10 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week?

 

Of course, I was talking a matter of at least months and not so much days
For example, in 6 months worth of training say for 4 times a week, maybe about 2 hours each time, your average Joe would be more dangerous if those 6 months were in boxing than in judo. Not to say judo is less effective than boxing, it just takes longer to use judo effectively because of the nature of judo versus the nature of boxing. This is of course a VERY GENERAL example.

Now go to sleep

 

as a kid, i grew up taking Karate at Bill Grossman's in SSF, and Kung Fu at Tat Mao Wong's Kung Fu Academy in SF. did a short run in the US Navy, and learned a few grappling techniques that don't really qualify as formal Jiu Jitsu training, but met people who were into MMA. they told me about the striking techniques of Muay Thai, and so i did some research. after a few months, i started Muay Thai training at Fairtex Muay Thai in Daly City, and occasionally hit the Fairtex studio in SF. after Alex (Gong) died though, the studios closed. i've been on and off at Bunkerd's studio Fight and Fitness in SF, and Cheetah's studio in Oakland... but i haven't really been consistent since Alex passed away.

i love Muay Thai and all the benefits gained from it, but i'm looking for a studio that teaches Muay Boran. Muay Boran is the deadlier version of Muay Thai... no gloves, and lots of lethal blows like elbow and knee strikes. also included are the attack styles that require stepping off of the opponent's front leg with forward leg, and striking the head with the kicking leg. I've also been looking for an Eskrima studio in the Bay Area around Fremont... but i've only heard of an Eskrima school in Concord.

anyone out there with info on where Muay Boran is being taught (outside of Thailand, haha), or Eskrima studios near Fremont?

 

Let me use myself as an experiment. I don't fight, I'm a peaceful guy who's never run afoul of the law. I have a few friends who are kinda violent, and have gotten into bad scuffles and one who even beat up a cop lol... I have been screwing around with them to test myself:

- boxing, took me about 8 months before I could stand toe to toe.
- Jujitsu, after a few weeks I could pretty much outwrestle and choke/submit untrained friends out (this is with them going all out against me too)

And you wonder why Brazilian Jujitsu dominated the early UFCs!


But dude I bet if someone really trained 8 hours a day 5-6 days a week with no prior martial arts experience, they would be REALLY GOOD in no time, man.

I mean if you think about it - for high school wrestling you are only training for a few months a year for 3 hours a day after school and very few people have experience as a freshman, yet kids are winning state championships and competitive on a collegiate level by the time they are juniors right?

 

I would think Bunkerd from Fight and Fitness has some knowledge of Muay Boran? Most MT guys from Thailand have some inclination towards the more traditional bare fisted styles. Other than that I haven't heard of any Muay Boran in America.

the bare knuckle defense of Muay Boran seems to resemble another bare knuckle form that's arose in the last decade: "Crazy Monkey". It's a defense style of using elbow blocks and elbow parries like Muay Boran uses, and a lot of guys use it in MMA in place of traditional boxing defense. Pretty cool stuff!

For escrima, you might be interested to know that Escrima, Kali, and arnis are pretty much the same thing, so you can look for kali and arnis schools in fremont too.

 

To be honest, I don't think that there is any authentic Muay Boran in America, and any school that advertises that as what they teach is BS'ing you.
Even in Thailand, the only Muay Boran rules matches are now Muay Wat (temple boxing) matches, which are held at Buddhist temple fairs. Most Muay Wat fighters, although fighting bareknuckle, are NOT top-class fighters like the ones you see in Lumpini or Rajadmnern. Folks like Bunkerd, Jongsanan, Ganyao et. al. are more of the pro-fighter types as they have all been Lumpini and/or Rajadmnern stadium champs before.

On a side note, the Thai military style lerd rit derives a lot of moves from Muay Boran. Also, many modern Muay Thai camps have a system of "mae mai" and "look mai" that are Muay Boran derived.

 

I guess it's about time for a bump!

Anyone doing anything new these days? Or any new BAIC members that haven't had a chance to see this thread yet?

As for me, I'm probably gonna start practicing regularly again now that I've gotten my health insurance transferred back Off to Enshin Kaikan I go!

 

Hey if you guys want to come ouy and spar tonight let me know. PM me with your name/number. I'll be heading to class in Pleasant Hill in about 5 1/2 hrs.

 

How the heck have I not noticed this thread? Thanks for bumping this Ryan! *subscribing to thread...NOW*

I am hoping to get back to practicing regularly (hopefully) within the next couple months once I get back into a workout routine and actually have some disposable income again I am thinking of doing either Krav Maga, BJJ or that full contact karake...unless someone knows a good Combat Sambo school cause I will be all over that

 

lol seriously, me=noob