at 110hp civic and a 440hp civic will pull the SAME results on a skid pad if they are the same in all other aspects (tires, weight, suspension, etc)

How does a cars power have ANYthing to do with how it turns. The motor does not turn the car whatsoever (last time I checked anyway)

 

YES!!!

The HANDLING will be indentical. How fast a car can navigate ANY given corner is independent of how much power it makes

The track times may or may not, it really depends on the driver

 

so in any given corner there is a threshold for the maximum g's that you can reach before hitting the wall or going off track. Who or what sets this speed? Wouldnt a better set of tires dictate this also?

 

well the car has to be doing something when it turns doesnt it. I think they call it moving, and the motor surely moves the car which allows it to turn and allows it to under or over steer depending on the car and the speed. Am i right with that conclusion?

subarus have the tendency to oversteer at higher speeds, but if your going at a lower rate of speed, they will not oversteer as bad, if at all. therefore the more power you give the car the more the handling is affected within the corner.

 

no, the suspension setup will be identical. The car will handle differently because the acceleration and deceleration needed to maintain the proper speeds on the track while maintaining the best and fastest line.

 

YEs!

The weight, tires, and suspension geometry of the car dictate that threshold speed.

NOT the engine, the engine is merely used to keep the car at speed.

 

The way a car handles is dicted only by the suspension/tires/weight

How to accelerate/decelerate properly is 100% driver and has nothing to do with handling of the car itself. A smart driver would follow the same exact line in the more powerful car as he would in the one with less. Again, just because you have 500hp, doesnt mean you need to use it all, all of the time

SHEESH

*bangs head on table*

 

DING DING DING DING

The power YOU give the car. YOU must control the car and get it in and out of corners. Using too much power for any given turn is YOUR fault, not the cars handling

You are mixing up BAD DRIVING with power/handling. If you have a car with a lot of power and lose on a course to an indentical car with less power, then its 100% driver error

adding more power doesnt magically foul up the handling characteristics of ANY car. It just makes it harder for a novice driver to go fast, becayse most thing if you have more power, then you should get on the gas more. That is a FALSE assumption

 

so therefore power affects handling. If you can control the power you will handle better, but if you drive like an idiot and enter every corner wide open you will run a bad time if finish at all. Driver skill controls all aspects of the car, but one part of the car is not independent of the other in regards to running it on a track. the power and handling are both to be considered in how you will run your line and what speeds you will enter and exit a specific corner. Therefore when you walk the track prerace and run the track you will need to compensate for power with handling and handling with power. eye for an eye. Both are connected and compliment each other.

will you go into a 180 degree turn at full throttle? no because the cars handling can not take it. What you will do is lower the power your giving the car so that the car will handle better at the proper speed for the corner.
to much power in a corner = bad handling (this seems to be correct to me)

 

FYI: Power does not affect handling directly.

Cheers.

 

Is that better? Same car, same suspension, both will go around every corner at the SAME speed given a good driver, PERIOD, REGARDLESS OF POWER

If the one with more power comes in too hot, then ITS DRIVER ERROR

DRIVER ERROR DOES NOT MEAN BAD HANDLING

You need to think of a car coasting down a hilly road (no motor at all)

For every given corner going down this hill, there is a set threshold speed that the car will be capable of doing without running off the road (which is determined by the weight of the car, the tires, and suspension). Thats WITHOUT ANY MOTOR AT ALL. How to enter those corners at the right speed will be 100% driver and how much he uses the brakes.

So can you see now, how power has nothing to do with handling?

I suggest a driving course for you. You will see how drivers lay out a full course. You memorize EVERY corner on a track and what gear/speed you should be at for each one of them. The speed you enter that corner is completely unrelated to power

 

^^^^Give up man, he's not listening.

 

True

Lemme bang my head on the table one last time

*bangs head on table*

and im out!

 

Yeah....

That's more or less what I was trying to get across.
I think we are all arguing the same point but from the opposite sides of the logic.

My Silvia's and 180SX's being the same basic cars, with various levels of power, I learnt that when you go with more power, you have to adjust something, be it mods to the car or driving style.

My first Silvia was a 1.8 liter Na at 145ps with Tokico suspension. After swapping the engine to a 1.8 turbo and upgrading the turbo I iwas at 205ps, the car's handling was different so I changed my style.

Then my last car was a SR20DET'd 180SX with 220ps (ecu and exhaust tuning) with full JIC coilovers, and a NISMO 1.5 way LSD, this setup was phenominal and I was able to hold tighter lines at higher speeds.

Considering the S13 Silvia and 180SX are nearly identical in stock handling characteristics and dimensions this is why I say that to effectively use the additional power, your handling style/setup should be altered.

 

i think the confusion is how we handle the car and the handling of the car. Two totally different things, but can get confused easily. Basically if your a good driver you can maintain a faster line with your car because you have the skills to do it. If you have to much power, you will need to tone it down.


i have done an autox and the first run I was going to fast and by the last run I was 4 seconds faster and new how to run the course better. The reason is that I was giving the car to much power for what I was trying to do, therefore going faster actually slowed my time down and made the car handle bad. This was driver error I know and I fixed it over the next few runs. By the last run I was going into corners slower and coming out a little quicker while maintaining a better line which led to a faster time.