Heh! You're too easy of a target, and you've got a soft ego as well. Try and learn from your mistakes, or you'll only prolong the suffering And thanks for the classic example of an "ad hominen" argument or attack. Well done!

We now return to our regularly scheduled discusson on tire mounting and balancing...

[EDIT] You know, "rustokman" is totally right -- I was being a *****. Certainly his rudeness and attempts to evade the question rather than learn something new set me off, but I could have been a bit nicer with my replies. My apologies to everyone involved, and to the original thread poster for threadjacking it.

 

Its all good, I could care less about the original post...considering i already got the tires mounted and they handle like crap =(
You guys can keep having at it if you want though
Just curious, where do you teach at Meilers?

 

Why do they handle like crap? What did you buy? Most tires, especially high-performance tires, handle badly for the first 100 miles until the "mold release compound" (kinda like Vaseline, actually) burns all the way off.

Also, if you went up a size, make sure you also went up in PSI. The shop that mounted my 17" wheels and tires used the tire pressure from the door sill (factory pressure) and my tires were a spongy mess until I added 6lbs per tire.

 

..so, lets hear more about this nitrogen arguement. Lets get a source that states the physical size of nitrogen vs. air/oxygen. 'Cuz I heard the 'nitrogen molecules are bigger' theory before. Also, b/c nitrogen retains much less water, it's better for air tools.

 

Its not really a theory. Nitrogen has one less electron in its valence shell, thus making the positive charge influence on the elctrons from the protons slightly larger than that of oxygen. The electrons are farther away from the nucleus of the atom and hence a larger atom. Nitrogen does not come individually though. its normal state has to nitrogen atoms bonded together. And like I said earlier, nitrogen is very inert, it won't bond with too many other elements easily, ESPECIALLY POLAR WATER MOLECULES.

Then I did mentin how its the rest of the stuff in air that causes the issues. About 20% depending on location. Well, the oxygen molecues in oxygen itself and other gasses like carbon dioxide can interchange with the water molecules in the form of water vapor. Nitrogen is the only gas that does not interact with water in any way.

Also, according to a "tire expert" at costco, as you drive on the freeway, your tires can heat up to well over 100 degrees. When this happens, any gas in the tires begins to expand and in so doing pressure is increased. Of all the gasses in air, nitrogen expands the least, making another good reason for it being used. And yes, water does expand the most.

For more info on nitrogen, find it on google. It doesn't hurt to open up a chemistry book and read a bit about something instead of just yapping about what a site told you.

Note: I don't like arguing about petty things that aren't worth my time to argue about. So I am not argue, just trying to be informative.

Balanz wanted to know where he can mount some tires in Santa Rosa or Berkeley, why don't we help him with that now.

 

Rusty, you don't learn your lessons very well!

If you'll look back over this thread, you'll see that your original post said NOTHING about the dehydrating effects of nitrogen; in fact, you said everything BUT this. It wasn't until I pointed out that this was the actual reason nitrogen was used that you seem to have accepted this line of reasoning; covering your tracks, I see.

As for the nitrogen being larger than oxygen argument: the actual pores in the tire itself and the gaps around the seal are much larger than individual atoms. Oxygen binds into O2, making it effectively twice as big; many other types of gases in unpurified air also clump together atomically, and of course water vapor itself is quite large on the atomic scale. So you're going to tell me that a bunch of solo nitrogen atoms (which doesn't clump, because as you have pointed out, it is inert) are going to clog those pores in the tires, while the O2 molecules slip by?

In any case, this is easy enough to test. Fill up one tire with nitrogen, another with normal air, and get a really good tire gauge. Run on both for a week, and then see which has dipped further in pressure. Repeat this ten times to throw out random results (good scientific method never hurts) and report back. Until you've done this, or can cite someone who has, yes, it is indeed still just a theory.