Well whatever, brother...

Don't talk to me about partisan sources when you're trying to spit information from a woman from 60minutes! The very same news branch that's currently under fire for forging Bush documents!

 

Umm, she is well known in the journalism world as a very upfront woman. And she doesn't just work for 60mins. She also works for CNN. I mentioned her becauseshe was in Iraq and talked about it on some show. And how us as americans are not getting the full story from Iraq. Also you fail to discredit the reports from the soldiers on www.optruth.org which is not partison. Sorry but your fooling yourself brother if you think Iraq is going well and as planned. Well do we have a plan? So instead of side stepping what i said, atleast come up with a better rebuttle than OMG the well respected journalist works for CBS. (I think thats the station.) And fail to mention how well known and respected she is.

 

If Iraq isn't going well, how on earth do you explain the historically ridiculously low casualty rates for US soldiers? If you think that's ridiculous, then name one other operation in history of this size (occupying a country of millions for a period of three years) that racked up fewer casualties. I think even the "bloodless revolution" in ye Olde England had more casualties than the Iraq war has.

No, the politics are not always predictable and there still is danger in Iraq, but to start comparing this to vietnam or to say that "everyone knows this is going haywire!" when it's pretty darn under control, relatively speaking, is pure hype. The rest of the world that supposedly knows this is Europe, and if they were smart they'd compare the casualty counts in Iraq to the casualty counts they endured as colonial powers. You can do it for them, and then get back to us on just how well or not this is going.

 

When did I ever compare this to Vietnam? Sorry but things are not going well. Supposedly the war in Iraq ended about a year ago yet we have over 1000 people dead since then. Second tons of our men have been injured and many more Iraqies have been killed. I think its over 14,000. (I could be wrong on that one.) What I stated and you fail to note is what im saying. Iraq IS getting worse and will get worse. This is the tip of the ice berg. And contary to your beliefs its not just the European nations saying this. Its the rest of the world. And our soldiers... www.optruth.org. So I still fail to see how you can say the war on Iraq is going well. Since its been over we have lost over 1000 and have killed thousands of them. Not the type of image we want to portray as the "saviors" of the Iraqie people. Also you do realise we will have to be there for a lot of years to come if we plan to actually build the country back up. (Well we do want that oil after all.) So imagine how many men we will have lost and how many of them we will have killed. See a cycle yet? Like I stated before and will state again things will get worse and are getting worse and have been getting worse gradually.

 

Did I accuse you of comparing this to Vietnam? I don't think I did. Were you responding to someone else?

Anyway, you didn't really answer the questions I posed to you. You just repeated what you said in the first post, which is fine if you think it's really important, but again, I'd like to see what other operation in history over this amount of time and of this scale has done better. As to whether or not things are absolutely going to get worse, I don't see how you can be certain of that. It could be that once the Iraqi police and military get on their feet, they crush the mostly foreign terrorists right out of existence and "pacify" the warring religious minorities. Is that really less plausible than the doomsday you're predicting?

 

You stated, "but to start comparing this to vietnam." And since your message was dirrected at me I thought I would state that I never compared the two.

Also you didn't, either understand what I wrote or get what I was saying at all. Things are progressingly getting worse and our soldiers are stating as much. Again read www.optruth.org. The best information is right from the horses mouth right?

Second, tell me of a war that after it has ended has caused one thousand and more deaths of our troops and has caused thousands of Iraqi citiznes deaths? You can't really compare Iraq to other wars since according to the adminstration its done.

Third, it is getting worse. All around the world and from our soldiers we are told as much. Unless your there and in person, I think I will trust the soldiers that have been stuck there far longer than they where supposed to. And guess what a lot of them are saying that it is getting worse. Several of my friends just got back from Iraq. And have told me as much. Also these aren't your "weekend" force, one is in special ops group, and others have been in the army for over 6 years now. So I think I'll trust them more than a news that hasn't shown any footage from Iraq in months. Or has a news anchor there. (Last time I talk about my friends in the force since thats personal.) So hence thats why Im pretty certain it will be getting worse and this is just the start. Oh and troop moral is low.

 

Well, first off, I was mentioning vietnam there as an example of the kind of comparison. So, no, you didn't bring it up but..."haywire" was aimed at you.

Second, I understood quite well what you were saying. Things are getting worse and will continue to get worse. And, you apparently did not read what I posted: Why is it impossible or even unlikely that things will get better once the Iraqi police and military reconstruction is complete?

Third: The horse example is funny, and appropriate. Usually, the horse's mouth is the last place you go for information. Especially with horses, since they don't talk. If you want to know how long it's been ridden, how far it will go, and how much it has had to eat...you ask the rider. So, first hand accounts from people at the bottom of the food chain are great, but guess what? The man on top usually has a much better big picture of the situation, and that's what matters to us in this discussion.

Fourth: I can easily compare Iraq to other wars. I just did. Does it matter what the administration officially labels it? Now, if you can't come up with an example of something like this happening with fewer casualties, I understand...the reason I asked the question is because I knew there was no good answer. Considering what's been achieved so far by the US military, the Iraq war is incredible in terms of casualties. It most definitely could have been a lot worse, but it isn't because our military is so competent.

As for the future, I see no reason to believe that incompetence is going to prevail in army that literally wiped out the largest army in the arab world within a few weeks. Time and support from us will be enough to get done what needs doing in Iraq.

 

Unfortunately this is a major problem with most Americans.

We live in a place where things get done relatively quickly. We get our food through a drive through and throw together mini malls within few weeks of breaking ground. This does have its repercussions on our American & Iraqi citizens in my honest opinion...

Everyone's so quick to point the finger regarding an insignificant 1,000 deaths (accidental deaths exceeded those in combat at times and rest at a ~30% average today) from an occupying force that's rotated ~300,000+ soldiers. The list goes on and on about everyone being so impatient that some of the Iraqis are following suit with the impatient Americans because they thought a liberation would happen in the expeditious manner America's know for doing things.

There's no chance in hell you knew there was going to be a suicide car blast at Iraqi checkpoint today! It's this lack of support from everyone that brings chances lower and lower for us...

EDIT: The Iraqi people want to eat their cake too... They are tired of the recent violence we haven't initiated but don't want us to leave until things calm down. It's a catch-22 of Iraqi bull****.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ebutnotjustyet


How in the **** are we supposed to do this when some of these impatient Iraqi monkeys are giving us a strong guerilla opposition?!