Salty

iTrader: (14)

****ing insurgents, terrorists and Saddam loyalists

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...sbushsoptimism

BlingBlingBlue

What did you expect?

Salty

iTrader: (14)

You're telling me that you expected the recent major spike in opposition? Can I borrow you the next time I go to Vegas?

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

...I think a lot of people expected this conflict to go the way of Vietnam (long, drawn out fighting with guerilla style fighting from a hard-to-target enemy)...and this 'recent spike in opposition' fits in with that expectation perfectly...

psoper

I'm useless at Vegas, but I've been saying all along that as long as we are an occupying force there we can expect the "insurgency" to keep growing.

W said it himself not too long ago;

"....they don't like being occupied, heck I wouldn't like being occupied....."

Put yourself in the position of an Iraqi your age, do you honestly think you would be signing up for the police force while its being run by the occupying army, and their puppet governing council?

I really doubt it, I'd bet that if your country was being treated by a foreign military in the manner we're treating Iraq, you'd be an insurgent yourself.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

To compare Vietnam with OIF is pretty weak if you ask me. The death tolls between the wars are the difference between night and day based on military technology, doctrine and whereabouts of known opposition in certain cities. 30% of the deaths in OIF are contributed to human error on our part.

The NVA was a worthy adversary that lurked in the shadows and wasn't limited to a city border. They ranged from 10-60yr old men and younger women and children with green tracer fire. In Iraq, all you have to do is stay out of the Fallujah, Basara, Sadr and stay clear of suspect vehicles by priority targets.

It's pretty sad it's come to this...

Salty

iTrader: (14)

How have/are we treating Iraq poorly?

I agree with you though...

I understand that I’d probably be upset but I wouldn't grab my rifle this soon in the game and that's what I have a hard time understanding. 1 year after OIF begun is pretty damn quick to start jumping the gun when a promising liberation is unfolding.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

...here's something to think about. According to some sources (I know, could be propaganda, but all the news from Iraq could be) a lot of Iraqis that did NOT like Saddam as a leader also did NOT want the US to 'liberate' the country. I can picture that easily; don't want the leader, but also want to take care of themselves because of nationalistic/pride reasons. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded some help...but we didn't even try to help, we just assumed what they wanted and took over. So now we've got all the troops trying to liberate a country, but they don't know who they're liberating the country from and who they're liberating the country to. That sucks for the US troops (real bad), sucks for the Iraqi people who didn't like Saddam, sucks for the Iraqi people who did like Saddam (but it should suck for them)...just sucks all together.

"What a senseless waste of human life"


...don't know if I totally trust this source...but Ramadi isn't any of the places you mentioned I don't think...
http://talkleft.com/new_archives/003098.html

Salty

iTrader: (14)

I understand the issues regarding national pride but can also remember countless pictures and footage of Iraqi citizens of all ages kissing and hugging Marines as they brought down Saddam's statue in Baghdad, praising Soldiers as they rolled into cities borders en route to Baghdad and Iraqis thanking the USA when the 4th ID captured Saddam himself.

A majority of Iraqi people still feel this way even though they're a little upset about the ongoing occupation. The bottom line is based on the fact these insurgents are ruining it for the rest of them (hence civil war)... The minority opposition doesn't want Westerners in Arab country and the few Saddam loyalists are pissed they lost what Saddam provided.

It’s just that simple… we know where the opposition is coming from--we just don’t know what they have up their sleeve in attempt to disrupt plans for those with hope.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

True...I have a question about this whole conflict though...are we training friendly-Iraqi's at all right now? So when we leave we know it won't just go back to a Saddam-like state again? The people I've seen thanking us look peaceful...the ones who don't like us look militant...

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Military and LE wise, YES.

We have been for a long time with good results.

I actually have a couple drill sergeant friends that volunteered to be the first to train Iraqi soldiers over 8 months ago to establish a strong NCO backbone. I've also had a buddy recently come back from training Iraqis from 5th Special Forces Group.

I'm telling you, man... things have otherwise been going smoothly in Iraq. The USA has done a TON to help Iraq from training to education. It's the damn minority that's stirring the hornets nest for everyone else that's hopeful for liberation.

MVWRX

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info...but just to be a pain in the *** I'll suggest this...if we've trained some friendly Iraqi's, and have been for a while, then we should start turning over the war to them...as in have a planned time when we're gonna ship out, and scale down the size of our presence there until we're gone. Have the US-Trained Iraqis start training more Iraqis during the phase out so by the time we're out of the country they can handle the small minority of people who are resisting the liberation. I don't see any real downside to that...they get the US expertise and we can start bringing home our troops who stand to get killed over there. AND the Iraqis will build some national pride from it, which can only help whatever administration takes over the politics of the country next.

BlingBlingBlue

Last time I checked, you could not place a wager on the side of the house. The house always wins, it's a no brainer. You invade a country and kill people, the relatives and loved ones of those you kill are going to fight back. I would.

Unregistered

You actually didn't expect this?! You got to be kidding me. Sorry to inform you but this isn't a spike its a gradual increase. Its been known around the world that Iraq has never been doing well. Of course Bush says oh we are doing fine. Total bull****. And this just isn't outside news sources that have been saying this. Our own soldiers have been. Of course, alot of people fail to take note that the Armed forces don't like showing they are failing. And this is a fact. I would love for anyone to dispute that. The armed force culture shows this. By the way OPTRUTH.org, non-partison, its from soldiers that just got back from Iraq etc. One of those soldiers was on NOW some pbs show. He talked about how his mom a art teacher in high school. Had to buy him a bullet proof vest, since the one they gave him was from vietnam era. It cost his mom 600 odd dollars. He also stated that price varied from 500 to 2000 dollars in what others had bought. Also he said that the contractors, got paid four times what he did. (He stated he made around 20g a year.) And that he as a soldier resented it, and he wasn't alone. (The contractors seemed to brag about how much they made.) Since he put his life on the line everyday and the governement paid a guy that could leave anytime a bunch of money that was tax free. He also stated, that Iraq has been getting worse since Bush said we had won. He stated, that in his 16th month tour of duty, he saw things get worse and worse and more organized. So basically this is the tip of the ice berg. Also something that suprised me; his translator stated that even though he knew why the americans where there he still felt that they where occupying his country. And this guy, isn't a "stupid insurgents, terrorists and Saddam loyalists," he is a educated individual that got put in jail by Saddam for telling his students not to vote for him. (Or something along those lines.) I strongly suggest you check out OPTRUTH.org.

Sadly, Bush failed the country horribly. I don't see how anyone could still vote for him.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Interesting view from the front lines...

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/...ves/002544.php

Of course I considered the idea from the beginning. But this story is based on the recent unconventional opposition in the form of car bombs etc. Other than these occasional blast near friendly individuals, everything else in Iraq seems to be running somewhat smoothly on a daily life basis for its citizens. Even though they may not agree with the daily patrols and occupation from our troops they’re still carrying on with life and biting their tongues until everything calms down (no thanks to this recent opposition). There's NO WAY you could predict the recent climb in unconventional war tactics... You may have thought about it like myself but...