Salty

iTrader: (14)

This article emphasizes my point made in this earlier thread: https://www.i-club.com/forums/teh-politics-forum-114/unease-shadows-bushs-optimism-iraq-73170/

This one goes out to you, Unregistered... I even highlighted and italicized the key points for you!

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._usa_policy_dc

The recent concern in Iraq's stability isn't (and has never been) about commoners being unhappy with United States's presence. Most of them have bitten their tongue knowing that the ends will justify the means in time. They're used to doing it after all...Saddam threw those that opposed him off a 3 story building, remember?

It's the fact we've allowed Baath party members, Saddam loyalists and Islamic radicals to coincide within Iraqi cities and breach the borders. Same thing happened with Islamic radicals when western infidels occupied Iraq and Kuwait in the early 90's.

One of the most infamous Islamic radicals of that time, Osama Bin Laden, was appalled that Saudi Arabia was allowing non-Muslim American pig soldiers to be stationed in the birthplace of Islam. This led to the hate filled anti-U.S. domino effect attacks of the Yemen bombing to 9/11...

The same exact this is taking place in Iraq. The instability has NOTHING to do with the common Iraqi civilians having sand in their *****! The uprising and stability is courtesy of those Saddam loyalists that had something to loose along with other Islamic radical groups using guerrilla tactics to rid of the westerner occupation... all they did was cross the border from neighboring Islamic countries.

Unregistered

Hmm, let me first respond to the other thread. Then I'll hit this one up....just been busy.

psoper

I won't deny that some of what you describe here is taking place and accounts for a portion of the "insurgency" but I think you are being naive if you think it has "nothing" to do with ordinary citizens being PO'd.

The "uprising" and "instability" is rooted just as much if not more in the resentment and hatred born of our doing things like torturing "detainees" and bombing and using gunships against civilians.

As long as we are there applying a heavy hand we should expect that they will have elements willing to fight back.

And I don't think its going to stop even if we did manage to round up every "foreign insurgent" and all of the so-called "Saddam Loyalists" because we have just done too much to **** off too many innocent people.

There are no weapons of mass destruction.

Saddam is out of power and his sons are dead.

Any appearence of justification for our being there has been proven to either be a lie or something that is behind us.

Its (past) time for us to bring the troops home and let Iraq take care of itself.

Salty

iTrader: (14)

Rrrright... because we tortured and slaughtered civilians in the liberation of Kuwait and pissed in the Saudi Arabian Royal Families corn flakes. No wonder Osama and other Islamic radicals were so upset with us then! I guess we had 9/11 coming, right?

I was extremely upset about the Abu Ghraib prison scandal being represented as a Veteran and American... you were only embarrassed for being an American. Regardless of Muslim beliefs among the prisoners, that wasn't torture... it was humiliation. If that was torture then I’ve been tortured in certain military schools myself. The recent kidnapping & beheadings of friendly bystanders is torture. I think T. Bubba Bechtol said it best regarding this topic.

When did we use gun ships against civilians? You meant the civilians that had the "wedding" near the Syrian border with Ak47's and RPGs? They proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the wedding was hearsay...they were anti-coalition forces that fired first.

It's not like we killed civilians in cold blood like Saddam once did. And yes, I shouldn't have used "nothing" so loosely as I’m sure there's a grieving parent of wrongfully killed son or daughter praying that the Americans leave. However, I doubt that this same grieving parent is versed in the art of ordnance and is responsible for the recent guerrilla car bombings.

I shouldn't have said "nothing" as it's an unfortunate side effect of war that innocent lives are lost. I apologize for not covering all the bases... you have to admit I covered the rest though and hit home plate.

I agree

Unregistered

How high is the Iraqi death count Salty?

SilverScoober02

I know this isn't directed at me but last I heard they could only estimate it at 12,000-15,000. There is a group that is trying to tally the Iraqi deaths, here is an article on them.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story...976392,00.html

And their website:

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/