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Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by psoper
Personally, I think I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes then wind up bankrupt on account of an injury, but I'm not canadian so what do I know....
That's where I lay on this issue.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:47 AM
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Smokers are the cure - smokers are the only group of people where no matter what lot in life they are from, race, gender, class they are always willing to help out another smoker and let them bum a light or a smoke. They do this knowing that when the time comes a fellow smoker will be there to do the same for them. It's all done on faith.

Why aren’t other aspects in our society done the same way? There needs to be more I'm willing to help pay for ______ because when the time comes I know they will help pay for mine.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by psoper
Personally, I think I'd rather pay a bit more in taxes then wind up bankrupt on account of an injury, but I'm not canadian so what do I know....


I don't understand why your solution is to give the gov't even more $$$ to waste.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by newyorkreload
Smokers are the cure - smokers are the only group of people where no matter what lot in life they are from, race, gender, class they are always willing to help out another smoker and let them bum a light or a smoke. They do this knowing that when the time comes a fellow smoker will be there to do the same for them. It's all done on faith.

Why aren’t other aspects in our society done the same way? There needs to be more I'm willing to help pay for ______ because when the time comes I know they will help pay for mine.
You're a ****ing Commie!!!!!
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
I don't understand why your solution is to give the gov't even more $$$ to waste.
It appears as if you are both looking at from two very different angles. If the new $$$ went to making people healthy, how would that be waste?

I think this argument needs to have some mutual definitions established. For starters does everyone here think the government could even be trusted to handle a national health care system? If the answer is "no", then the problem of trusting the goverment needs to be fixed first.

Last edited by newyorkreload; Jul 13, 2007 at 10:00 AM.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
You're a ****ing Commie!!!!!
Under the confines of this argument what is your definition of a "****ing Commie"?
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by newyorkreload
It appears as if you are both looking at from two very different angles. If the new $$$ went to making people healthy, how would that be waste?

I think this argument needs to have some mutual definitions established. For starters does everyone here think the government could even be trusted to handle a national health care system? If the answer is "no", then the problem of trusting the goverment needs to be fixed first.

Again, name one program that the gov't administers both effectively & efficiently.

I contend that out of every dollar given to the gov't, the percentage of waste will be much higher than out of every dollar given to a private firm.

So, no!, the gov't can not be trusted with the health of my children.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Again, name one program that the gov't administers both effectively & efficiently.

I contend that out of every dollar given to the gov't, the percentage of waste will be much higher than out of every dollar given to a private firm.

So, no!, the gov't can not be trusted with the health of my children.
Do you think citizens in other countries can trust their governments, and that it's the American government that's flawed? Or is it all governments?
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 10:21 AM
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Citizens of other countries trust their governments less than we do here, on average. They actually have control over their governments, and the governments listen to the people because they weild their democratic power. In our country, we don't. We are affraid of the government (again, on average...not everyone is of course...).

I don't think socialism is good for everything, the free market works for most industries. But for health care it simply doesn't work. We've shown that over the last few decades. It's time to try something different...other countries have systems that work, so why don't we try something they're doing? Oh yeah...that would make us commies...


The biggest similarity between anything a sterotypical communist nation like the USSR or China did/does and what we do is use government tax money to fund a war machine that hops around the globe trying to change other countries to our form of government...
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by spedmunki
you understand that has nothing to do with insurance....and would not be fixed by universal healthcare. this is merely negligence on the doctor's part.
Well I thought it would because she was covered by Medical, but the hospital felt as if maybe the coverage wasn't good enough or they might not get paid or whatever. Not to mention when she was sick for to long she was eventually dropped from Medical aswell as being turned away by a hospital that can give you temp coverage and a payment plan but somehow still turned her away. So in effect I think it has to do with a facet of health care that could use some fixing, maybe its not Universal that would help but it does point out a definative issue with healthcare that could use a change.

Wether its doctors negligence or horrible insurance coverage policies I dont know for sure but, either way its not right.

Last edited by ezombie; Jul 13, 2007 at 11:29 AM.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
I don't understand why your solution is to give the gov't even more $$$ to waste.

Again, I never made any suggestion that this was the solution, only that if given a choice between the two options of our status quo or having higher taxes to support a universal coverage, I'd really rather not have to worry about even the chance that I might become bankrupted if I am in a car wreck requiring extended hospitalization.

Like I said there are no easy answers, but things need to change as the current program is simply not working for enough of the population.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 11:24 AM
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At least they try to fix things at the state level ie: Medi-Cal.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 11:31 AM
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Medi cal will still drop you if they think the illness will be to costly, happened in my family.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
But that's the thing. Health insurance should never have become a business-like venture. There shouldn't be people making money off of it, because that causes a situation where profits and good care are mutually exclusive. That's the whole point!
This defies the logic of why we have medical school students suffering through med school and there residency. Why do they do it, mostly for the money. Do you think we'd have people committing suicide over there MCAT scores if there was no money in it? Why is it that whenever a very technical operation is needed it is always in America? Because we happen to have the best doctors in the world. That doesn't mean we have the best health care but we definetly have the best doctors. And why, because there's so much competition. Take away competition and the quality falls through the floor. If someone made a bill that said no matter how a car is built all of them will $10,000 brand new how good of a car do you expect? That will happen to health care to if it becomes a blanket, government system.
Old Jul 13, 2007 | 02:32 PM
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It's George Bush's fault!!!



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