Michael Moore's Sicko.
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
It's not simple.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,675
From: Wherever Sucks the Most
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
It's not simple.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
The life saving opperation? Both get it. There is no limit to the number of surgeries a country can perform if they use the proper system. The issue of transplant lists would be exactly the same as it is now, we already deal with limited donor supplies. And a motorcycle/ped accident? Treat them both. Why wouldn't we be able to? Countries that use socialized health care systems don't have to make those choices, why would we be different? They just treat whoever needs treatment.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Save/treat everyone that needs it includes the unborn.
If you are willing to make an exception in treating unborn human beings, why not make an exception for illegals, welfare folks, etc?
Just an idea.
If you are willing to make an exception in treating unborn human beings, why not make an exception for illegals, welfare folks, etc?
Just an idea.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
Well, this gets back to the argument of when a fetus is a live human...I don't want to rehash that argument. Illegals and welfare folks are definitly live humans though...
It's not simple.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
Limited resources = limited services.
Limited services = some one dies.
Who gets the life saving operation?
Life long smoker w/ lung cancer or my non smoking mom w/ lung cancer?
Who gets the liver?
A has been hard core drunk 50something w/ cirrhosis or me, who got hepatitis as a kid?
So, who dies?
The non helmet wearing Hell's Angels tough guy that rides high as a kite or my daughter that he ran over?
While it's easy to wave the magic health care wand, it's not so easy to to actually cover everyone.
And frankly, not everyone should be saved.
MV, if only life were so fair.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
You know, all these other countries with working socialized health care systems don't have problems with 'choosing' who to give care to. Why would we? Seriously...what's so hard to believe about just giving everyone care who needs it?
I don't know about the hand holding and Joplin...
I don't know about the hand holding and Joplin...
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Socialist countries w/ socialist healthcare do have problems...plenty of problems.
I guess it comes down to do we want to exchange one set problems for another.
BTW, my father had a body shop in Marin County...he used to fix Joplin's car...she held me a couple of times when I was a babe.
I guess it comes down to do we want to exchange one set problems for another.
BTW, my father had a body shop in Marin County...he used to fix Joplin's car...she held me a couple of times when I was a babe.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,312
From: UCIrvine
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
Well sure, but I don't think their problems are choosing who to give needed care to. They give care to everyone who needs it.
I guess you're right that it would be an exchange of 'problems'. But it seems to me that a lot of the stress that causes societal problems in our country would be alleviated if everyone knew they'd be taken care of if they needed to be (in terms of health care).
Well sure, but I don't think their problems are choosing who to give needed care to. They give care to everyone who needs it.
I guess you're right that it would be an exchange of 'problems'. But it seems to me that a lot of the stress that causes societal problems in our country would be alleviated if everyone knew they'd be taken care of if they needed to be (in terms of health care).
I guess you're right that it would be an exchange of 'problems'. But it seems to me that a lot of the stress that causes societal problems in our country would be alleviated if everyone knew they'd be taken care of if they needed to be (in terms of health care).
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 15,494
From: Participating in some Anarchy!
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Well sure, but I don't think their problems are choosing who to give needed care to. They give care to everyone who needs it.
I guess you're right that it would be an exchange of 'problems'. But it seems to me that a lot of the stress that causes societal problems in our country would be alleviated if everyone knew they'd be taken care of if they needed to be (in terms of health care).
I guess you're right that it would be an exchange of 'problems'. But it seems to me that a lot of the stress that causes societal problems in our country would be alleviated if everyone knew they'd be taken care of if they needed to be (in terms of health care).
But to a person they'd tell you that you'd better not need an extrodinary procedure, like chemo, because you'll most likely die before starting treatment.
They'd tell you about lack lustre medical staff, who frquently make grave errors, that ultimately cost lives.
Again, my main point is why do you want the gov't involved in your health?
You may not have said it that simply, but that's what socialized healthcare is: gov't involvment.
And again, I contend that gov't ran anything sucks ***.
Look at Katrina and how every gov't agency from local, city, county, state, and yes, federal, all ****ed up.
Also, look at all those poor souls that followed the mantra of gov't dependence.
How many died because they exchanged the "inconvience" self reliance for the teet of gov't hand out?
These are the same pukes you want providing your healthcare?
**** that!
I don't know if you have ever worked for/with a gov't agency, but the few times I have, the level of quality was below private industry standards & costs went through the roof.
Look at simple gov't constrution projects vs private projects.
I can't think of one gov't project that either on time or on budget...let alone both!
Do you really believe that overall quality of healthcare in the US will increase once socialized?
I contend that by socializing any service, including healthcare, will increase those covered but at the expence of lower quality for all.
Yes, something must be done.
Socialism is never the answer.


