the brilliance of beheading.
09-23-2004, 09:08 AM
#31
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by subaruguru
Well, that's not all he did. Did you see the Democratic convention? Vietnam was the center piece of Kerry's campaign. His whole credibility for the war on terror, for Iraq, for everything defense, is based on his Vietnam military service. What else has he talked about that qualifies him to lead on defense? Vietnam is his presidential credential as far as he's told us.
Now, he threw away his medals because he said he was ashamed of what was happening there and he thought Vietnam was one big atrocity. Which is fine. But it's no fair now, and I think this is why so many veterans are opposing him, to come up and say "I want to be the president because I served in vietnam, unlike everyone else." He's already told us what he thought of serving in vietnam: it was just a big free-for-all of raping and pillaging. How does participating in that make you qualified to lead? And if that's not what happened...then was he lying earlier?
Now, he threw away his medals because he said he was ashamed of what was happening there and he thought Vietnam was one big atrocity. Which is fine. But it's no fair now, and I think this is why so many veterans are opposing him, to come up and say "I want to be the president because I served in vietnam, unlike everyone else." He's already told us what he thought of serving in vietnam: it was just a big free-for-all of raping and pillaging. How does participating in that make you qualified to lead? And if that's not what happened...then was he lying earlier?
What do you think of when some says "Vietnam" in conversation? I can't possibly be a warm and fuzzy thought, right? It doesn't have that same ring compared to someone that says "WWII" in conversation, does it?
It's because Vietnam was a chaotic war that tore this country at the seams when WWII brought this Country together with patriotic ideals and direction.
My point is even if Kerry was a modern day Audie Murphy during his tour to Vietnam it still makes his campaign look bad when he talks about his service.
09-23-2004, 09:41 AM
#32
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: "It will take time to restore chaos." GWB
Posts: 3,461
Car Info: 72 Vespa with curb feelers
Originally Posted by bassplayrr
He threw away his medals to prove a point and to bring attention to the fact that it was an unjust war. -Chris
Unjust my ***. If we had won the PR war at home Vietnam would have joined the civilized war decades ago, rather than in just the last couple years.
Last edited by HellaDumb; 09-23-2004 at 09:45 AM.
09-23-2004, 09:49 AM
#33
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: UCIrvine
Posts: 3,312
Car Info: '05 Crystal Grey Metallic WRX Sport Wagon
The injustice is that we felt it neccesary to rid Vietnam of communism even though it wasn't really our place to do so. We were acting as the world's police force, and a lot of people around the world and in our own country don't agree with doing that. Internationally, it's a good way to make people fear/hate you (which the British Empire showed us is a bad path to go down) and at home it makes people wonder why we're fighting in another country when we have so many problems to deal with here (education, gangs, welfare, homlessness, etc...). I don't believe anybody would argue that the North Vietnamese were a good gov't...just like noone would argue that Saddam was a good dictator. We just may have overstepped our bounds, and we're still feeling the reprecusions from that now.
09-23-2004, 10:06 AM
#34
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by bassplayrr
He threw away his medals to prove a point and to bring attention to the fact that it was an unjust war.
-Chris
-Chris
Kerry ordering the destruction of committee documents to justify lifting of the trade embargo against Vietnam as chairman of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs -or- throwing his medals over the White House fence to prove a point?!
Who knew that normalization of relations with Vietnam > Abandoned Vietnam servicemen.
09-23-2004, 10:51 AM
#35
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by OLMEK
My father along with countles United States Marines did the same thing to Vietnamese (not just Viet Cong) for SLAM (Search Locate Annialate Mission) operations in Cambodia, where the CIA directed the objectives of decapitating certain officers, and collecting the heads/photographing it beside the body, then dropping message leaflets throughout the northern regions.
They did this for phsycological warfare in the name of the U.S., and for the effect a separated head had amongst the budhist, ying & yang, and other tao originated religions where the soul cannot reach the heavens when severed. The Confucians believed that it was important to present oneself to 'the ancestors' whole, and therefore one of the most feared methods of execution in ancient China was decapitation.
They did this for phsycological warfare in the name of the U.S., and for the effect a separated head had amongst the budhist, ying & yang, and other tao originated religions where the soul cannot reach the heavens when severed. The Confucians believed that it was important to present oneself to 'the ancestors' whole, and therefore one of the most feared methods of execution in ancient China was decapitation.
I have a couple of Vietnam Recon Marines that say you're story sounds way off base:
Originally Posted by Returned Email
"but what that person describes is certainly never heard of... the only thing we did with our enemy dead was put them out by the road (highway 1) we would be court-martialed if we did anything like you heard of."
Originally Posted by Returned Email #2
The story your buddy provided was way off base...as you might know i lived in the villages with the people of vietnamese.the Marines, not the Army, had the CAP program from 1965-1971, a "win your hearts and minds concept" that worked very effectively.
Originally Posted by EDITED POST to add Email #3
S.L.A.M. missons did exist but they aren't what your friend describes with brutal beheadings. It was a psycological warfare method in which we monitored the enemy after unconventional attacks. Those unconventional tactics never involved taking pictures of beheaded officers or at least I've never heard of such a brutal thing. As for his father, i'd be more than happy to run a check with MACVSOG or run it by with the FOG's...they should know him.
So your Father was either a cold blooded James Bond savage -or- you're a bold faced liar!
Just like I brought that Ret. Green Beret and ex-Navy SEAL here to sniff out one of "el guapos" outlandish posts, i'm doing the same for you (don't you feel special?)
Link 1 (See posts 22, 53, 57, 103 for the SEALs post)
Link 2 with Green Beret
Although there's the very slight chance you're telling the truth, I have a feeling you made that story up because it's in your nature to hand out war crimes stories on our own troops. Not to mention it's easier and makes your "10cent novels" flow better than they would with factual information.
So I’ll wait for a reply -or- PM with your fathers service information so I can run it through my friends ATRRS database and pass the info along to other Vietnam Veterans that probably served with your "high-speed, low-drag" Father.
Thanks in Advance!
Last edited by Salty; 09-24-2004 at 12:44 PM.
09-23-2004, 10:53 AM
#36
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,709
Car Info: CRZ EX-Navi/6MT & Vue Redline
Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Unjust? Are you f'ing kidding me? Do you know what happened after we left? I personally know people who had family members killed because they were educated and the communists felt threatened by that.
Unjust my ***. If we had won the PR war at home Vietnam would have joined the civilized war decades ago, rather than in just the last couple years.
Unjust my ***. If we had won the PR war at home Vietnam would have joined the civilized war decades ago, rather than in just the last couple years.
I don't care what happened there after we left. Awefull? Yes. But not our problem. As has been stated more times than I'd like to count, we are not the world's police force.
-Chris
09-23-2004, 11:54 AM
#37
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Originally Posted by Salty
What unit was your Father in, Olmek?! Let me guess... it's still under CIA safeguard, right?
So your Father was either a cold blooded James Bond savage -or- you're a bold faced liar!
Although there's the very slight chance you're telling the truth, I have a feeling you made that story up because it's in your nature to hand out war crimes stories on our own troops. Not to mention it's easier and makes your "10cent novels" flow better than they would with factual information.
So I’ll wait for a reply -or- PM with your fathers service information so I can run it through my friends ATRRS database and pass the info along to other Vietnam Veterans that probably served with your "high-speed, low-drag" Father.
Thanks in Advance!
So your Father was either a cold blooded James Bond savage -or- you're a bold faced liar!
Although there's the very slight chance you're telling the truth, I have a feeling you made that story up because it's in your nature to hand out war crimes stories on our own troops. Not to mention it's easier and makes your "10cent novels" flow better than they would with factual information.
So I’ll wait for a reply -or- PM with your fathers service information so I can run it through my friends ATRRS database and pass the info along to other Vietnam Veterans that probably served with your "high-speed, low-drag" Father.
Thanks in Advance!
Place yer bets! :banana:
I'll give 5 to 3 that OLMEK is passing wind.
09-23-2004, 12:15 PM
#39
VIP Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 1,663
Car Info: 2002 Honda S2000
Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Unjust? Are you f'ing kidding me? Do you know what happened after we left? I personally know people who had family members killed because they were educated and the communists felt threatened by that.
Unjust my ***. If we had won the PR war at home Vietnam would have joined the civilized war decades ago, rather than in just the last couple years.
Unjust my ***. If we had won the PR war at home Vietnam would have joined the civilized war decades ago, rather than in just the last couple years.
09-23-2004, 12:22 PM
#40
VIP Member
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Corpus Christi, Texas
Posts: 1,663
Car Info: 2002 Honda S2000
Originally Posted by subaruguru
Well, that's not all he did. Did you see the Democratic convention? Vietnam was the center piece of Kerry's campaign. His whole credibility for the war on terror, for Iraq, for everything defense, is based on his Vietnam military service. What else has he talked about that qualifies him to lead on defense? Vietnam is his presidential credential as far as he's told us.
Now, he threw away his medals because he said he was ashamed of what was happening there and he thought Vietnam was one big atrocity. Which is fine. But it's no fair now, and I think this is why so many veterans are opposing him, to come up and say "I want to be the president because I served in vietnam, unlike everyone else." He's already told us what he thought of serving in vietnam: it was just a big free-for-all of raping and pillaging. How does participating in that make you qualified to lead? And if that's not what happened...then was he lying earlier?
Now, he threw away his medals because he said he was ashamed of what was happening there and he thought Vietnam was one big atrocity. Which is fine. But it's no fair now, and I think this is why so many veterans are opposing him, to come up and say "I want to be the president because I served in vietnam, unlike everyone else." He's already told us what he thought of serving in vietnam: it was just a big free-for-all of raping and pillaging. How does participating in that make you qualified to lead? And if that's not what happened...then was he lying earlier?
09-23-2004, 12:31 PM
#41
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,709
Car Info: CRZ EX-Navi/6MT & Vue Redline
I'm just confused as to how you can trust two men, Bush and Chaney, to lead our armed forces and to start wars when they have never had any taste of combat. It would be like having someone decide how your car will be fixed when they've never even touched a motor. Makes no sence, but Bush has "resolve" or what ever, right? So I guess it does make sence. 
-Chris
-Chris
09-23-2004, 12:38 PM
#42
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Originally Posted by bassplayrr
I'm just confused as to how you can trust two men, Bush and Chaney, to lead our armed forces and to start wars when they have never had any taste of combat. It would be like having someone decide how your car will be fixed when they've never even touched a motor. Makes no sence, but Bush has "resolve" or what ever, right? So I guess it does make sence.
-Chris
-Chris
"..the two presidents generally regarded as the country's greatest wartime leaders, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt, had no experience in uniform before becoming president.." Linky
09-23-2004, 12:45 PM
#43
VIP Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 3,709
Car Info: CRZ EX-Navi/6MT & Vue Redline
Originally Posted by Oaf
As I've said, millitary experience means jack shiznit in politics.
"..the two presidents generally regarded as the country's greatest wartime leaders, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt, had no experience in uniform before becoming president.." Linky
"..the two presidents generally regarded as the country's greatest wartime leaders, Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt, had no experience in uniform before becoming president.." Linky
I guess my problem is not how someone with no military background will lead us in a time of war. What I have a problem with is their ease of entering us in to a war. With no idea first hand of what happens in war, Bush just seams all too accepting of throwing our troops in to battle. Notice the two presidents you listed didn't go looking for their wars, as Bush did with Iraq? WWII was going on for some time, while we remained neutral, and FDR didn't enter untill our supply ships were being attacked in Europe and Japan bombed us AT HOME. The civil war was obviously not of Loncolns choice, hence the Conferderacy was considered the "rebel" force.
-Chris
I guess since your "linky" is from the SF Gate, we can't trust it, right? Isn't that what you and Salty are always implying?
09-23-2004, 03:51 PM
#45
iClub Silver Vendor
iTrader: (25)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Participating in some Anarchy!
Posts: 15,494
Car Info: 2005 LGT wagon
Originally Posted by bassplayrr
I guess my problem is not how someone with no military background will lead us in a time of war. What I have a problem with is their ease of entering us in to a war. With no idea first hand of what happens in war, Bush just seams all too accepting of throwing our troops in to battle. Notice the two presidents you listed didn't go looking for their wars, as Bush did with Iraq? WWII was going on for some time, while we remained neutral, and FDR didn't enter untill our supply ships were being attacked in Europe and Japan bombed us AT HOME. The civil war was obviously not of Loncolns choice, hence the Conferderacy was considered the "rebel" force.
-Chris
I guess since your "linky" is from the SF Gate, we can't trust it, right? Isn't that what you and Salty are always implying?
-Chris
I guess since your "linky" is from the SF Gate, we can't trust it, right? Isn't that what you and Salty are always implying?
