What else can you get for around $30,000
Originally posted by rlaureano
Better? Yes. For the same price? Nope. RWD works fine? Yes, but on dirt, rain and snow, AWD is superior. I can certainly understand downshift's excitement and love for AWD and STI. It's not often the US gets tricked out cars that have been selling in other countries for quite awhile now.
No other time have I felt so much excitement since Shelby came out with their GLHS and CSX (I owned one
), Mitsu came out with their Eclipse Turbos, Toyota came out with their Celica All-Trac, MR2 and Supra Turbos, Mazda came out with their RX7 Turbos, and Nissan came out with that 300Z TT. (NOTICE how all cars above had TURBOS!!!)
Granted, the 350Z and G35 are worthy competitors - but guess what? NO TURBO. Ya, you can add an aftermarket one along with intercoolers but you will be spending at least $5K+. This is no longer comparing apples to oranges. Give me that $5K+ to fix an STI and you'll see who is king. 300 stock HP is nothing to sneeze at. Coupled with AWD, usable rear seat (be envious 350Z and G35 Coupe), Japanese reliability (the opposite of US muscle cars), and rally-bred heritage, there really is very little competition.
Food for thought. I just saw a English-dubbed Japanese video called Best Motoring 6 where they compared the different generation STI and EVOs (up to 2002 models) and most agree that the STI was a more "balanced" car. This is due to the fact of the flat 4 engines lower center of gravity and symmetrical layout (it is longitudal like a RWD, unlike the transversal layout of the EVO). This equates to equal length front drive shafts and better front to back weight distribution. To compensate, there WAS more work done on the EVO to stiffen up its suspension to compensate for the loss of balance. During cornering, the EVO had to brake later and accelerate earlier in and out of curves while the STI (or Spec C) was able to corner more steadily.
Better? Yes. For the same price? Nope. RWD works fine? Yes, but on dirt, rain and snow, AWD is superior. I can certainly understand downshift's excitement and love for AWD and STI. It's not often the US gets tricked out cars that have been selling in other countries for quite awhile now.
No other time have I felt so much excitement since Shelby came out with their GLHS and CSX (I owned one
), Mitsu came out with their Eclipse Turbos, Toyota came out with their Celica All-Trac, MR2 and Supra Turbos, Mazda came out with their RX7 Turbos, and Nissan came out with that 300Z TT. (NOTICE how all cars above had TURBOS!!!)Granted, the 350Z and G35 are worthy competitors - but guess what? NO TURBO. Ya, you can add an aftermarket one along with intercoolers but you will be spending at least $5K+. This is no longer comparing apples to oranges. Give me that $5K+ to fix an STI and you'll see who is king. 300 stock HP is nothing to sneeze at. Coupled with AWD, usable rear seat (be envious 350Z and G35 Coupe), Japanese reliability (the opposite of US muscle cars), and rally-bred heritage, there really is very little competition.
Food for thought. I just saw a English-dubbed Japanese video called Best Motoring 6 where they compared the different generation STI and EVOs (up to 2002 models) and most agree that the STI was a more "balanced" car. This is due to the fact of the flat 4 engines lower center of gravity and symmetrical layout (it is longitudal like a RWD, unlike the transversal layout of the EVO). This equates to equal length front drive shafts and better front to back weight distribution. To compensate, there WAS more work done on the EVO to stiffen up its suspension to compensate for the loss of balance. During cornering, the EVO had to brake later and accelerate earlier in and out of curves while the STI (or Spec C) was able to corner more steadily.
well, you do have some points, however, you seem to leave out the fact that no one knows what the true price of the STi will be, so we can't pose any numbers on price, and the other thing, is the fact that the car they tested was th Spec C, and we're not getting the Spec C STi, these are two different cars. The Spec C is a far better race car than the regular STi.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by jrp4uc
And it is a fair question to ask how much of the time will you be getting that extra $10-15,000 out of the car. I don't know that I'd notice it on my daily commute either.
And it is a fair question to ask how much of the time will you be getting that extra $10-15,000 out of the car. I don't know that I'd notice it on my daily commute either.
The STi will be an incredible car, but it isn't for everyone. OR maybe it's that it is, but it's just not a good investment for everyone! 
If you've got the extra 10k+ green to toss at the opportunity to own one, go for it! I just think there are less readers on this board that are truly in this financial position.
If you've got the extra 10k+ green to toss at the opportunity to own one, go for it! I just think there are less readers on this board that are truly in this financial position.
If you look around, you can see that a C32 AMG or an M3, or any Porsche, is not for everybody..... hell, even a Miata is not for everybody. The point where I differ from you is this, there are lots and lots of folks who are very interested in these cars. That is why this forum exists
Last edited by Yellow Rex; Apr 4, 2003 at 11:44 AM.
NASIOC Slut
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,723
From: Roseville, CA
Car Info: 1995 Subaru Impreza 1.8 L
Originally posted by rlaureano
Better? Yes. For the same price? Nope. RWD works fine? Yes, but on dirt, rain and snow, AWD is superior. I can certainly understand downshift's excitement and love for AWD and STI. It's not often the US gets tricked out cars that have been selling in other countries for quite awhile now.
No other time have I felt so much excitement since Shelby came out with their GLHS and CSX (I owned one), Mitsu came out with their Eclipse Turbos, Toyota came out with their Celica All-Trac, MR2 and Supra Turbos, Mazda came out with their RX7 Turbos, and Nissan came out with that 300Z TT. (NOTICE how all cars above had TURBOS!!!)
Granted, the 350Z and G35 are worthy competitors - but guess what? NO TURBO. Ya, you can add an aftermarket one along with intercoolers but you will be spending at least $5K+. This is no longer comparing apples to oranges. Give me that $5K+ to fix an STI and you'll see who is king. 300 stock HP is nothing to sneeze at. Coupled with AWD, usable rear seat (be envious 350Z and G35 Coupe), Japanese reliability (the opposite of US muscle cars), and rally-bred heritage, there really is very little competition.
Food for thought. I just saw a English-dubbed Japanese video called Best Motoring 6 where they compared the different generation STI and EVOs (up to 2002 models) and most agree that the STI was a more "balanced" car. This is due to the fact of the flat 4 engines lower center of gravity and symmetrical layout (it is longitudal like a RWD, unlike the transversal layout of the EVO). This equates to equal length front drive shafts and better front to back weight distribution. To compensate, there WAS more work done on the EVO to stiffen up its suspension to compensate for the loss of balance. During cornering, the EVO had to brake later and accelerate earlier in and out of curves while the STI (or Spec C) was able to corner more steadily.
Better? Yes. For the same price? Nope. RWD works fine? Yes, but on dirt, rain and snow, AWD is superior. I can certainly understand downshift's excitement and love for AWD and STI. It's not often the US gets tricked out cars that have been selling in other countries for quite awhile now.
No other time have I felt so much excitement since Shelby came out with their GLHS and CSX (I owned one
), Mitsu came out with their Eclipse Turbos, Toyota came out with their Celica All-Trac, MR2 and Supra Turbos, Mazda came out with their RX7 Turbos, and Nissan came out with that 300Z TT. (NOTICE how all cars above had TURBOS!!!)Granted, the 350Z and G35 are worthy competitors - but guess what? NO TURBO. Ya, you can add an aftermarket one along with intercoolers but you will be spending at least $5K+. This is no longer comparing apples to oranges. Give me that $5K+ to fix an STI and you'll see who is king. 300 stock HP is nothing to sneeze at. Coupled with AWD, usable rear seat (be envious 350Z and G35 Coupe), Japanese reliability (the opposite of US muscle cars), and rally-bred heritage, there really is very little competition.
Food for thought. I just saw a English-dubbed Japanese video called Best Motoring 6 where they compared the different generation STI and EVOs (up to 2002 models) and most agree that the STI was a more "balanced" car. This is due to the fact of the flat 4 engines lower center of gravity and symmetrical layout (it is longitudal like a RWD, unlike the transversal layout of the EVO). This equates to equal length front drive shafts and better front to back weight distribution. To compensate, there WAS more work done on the EVO to stiffen up its suspension to compensate for the loss of balance. During cornering, the EVO had to brake later and accelerate earlier in and out of curves while the STI (or Spec C) was able to corner more steadily.
There are plenty of other cars out there that are far better than the STI is the point. There are even better performance values too (Mazdaspeed protege, Panoz Esperante GTS, MINI Cooper S, Corvette Z06, even the Carrera 4S) and I have no arguement with the STI for being the car I would get for under $35,000... But being an a-hole in the process and making I-club look like a club full of imature children should not be supported...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by Kostamojen
There are plenty of other cars out there that are far better than the STI is the point. There are even better performance values too (Mazdaspeed protege, Panoz Esperante GTS, MINI Cooper S, Corvette Z06, even the Carrera 4S) and I have no arguement with the STI for being the car I would get for under $35,000...
There are plenty of other cars out there that are far better than the STI is the point. There are even better performance values too (Mazdaspeed protege, Panoz Esperante GTS, MINI Cooper S, Corvette Z06, even the Carrera 4S) and I have no arguement with the STI for being the car I would get for under $35,000...
It takes a turbo just to get it to 170 measly horsepower. I'm sure it is a fun car to drive and a best built car than a SRT-4, but I'd much prefer the 250hp SRT-4 (215 is not at all accurate). How you say 4S and GTS are good BPV cars, I totally dont get it. May as well though in the Enzo with that logic. MINI, same opinion as Mazdaspeed.Here's my opinion of BPV vehicles (luxury not even considered)
17-22k = SRT-4
22-27k = WRX. If the Miata had more hp, I may have chose it
27-32 = STi, if it is what I imagine, or Evo if not, maybe RX-8
32-37 = Cobra and 350Z track
37-42 = Boxter is the only thing that comes close, but too expensive for what it offers to be a BPV
42-47= M3
47-52= Z06
I can' think of anything over $52k available in the US that can be a BPV. The Z06 beat them all in performance value.
Registered User
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 1,051
From: In Dad's garage.
Car Info: MY02 GD WAGON, MY87 AW11
I personally would give the nod to the 350z. With the car NOT being a limited production car, I would be able to get parts for my car at the local dealer to put me back on the road TODAY.
That to me is value. I can't see me beating on a car that I don't know if I can get parts quickly if I break it. I know I will break it. Trust me. I can't see me "downgrading" to standard WRX parts to get my car on the road untill my STi parts come in from Japan. God forbid the 2.5T engine breaks.......what parts can you use from the 2.0L engine to get you back on the road?
From a performance standpoint, the think the STI with the 2.5T will smoke on the 350z stock for stock. But in the long run, when value and performance has to be weighed equally for my hard earned pennies, I would have to go with the Z.
Im sorry to dissapoint myself, because I really want an STi. I know a couple guys here with deposits on STi's that will buy the car just to show it off. But just to have one for the sake of having one doesn't sit well with me. What's the fun in that?
-scu
That to me is value. I can't see me beating on a car that I don't know if I can get parts quickly if I break it. I know I will break it. Trust me. I can't see me "downgrading" to standard WRX parts to get my car on the road untill my STi parts come in from Japan. God forbid the 2.5T engine breaks.......what parts can you use from the 2.0L engine to get you back on the road?
From a performance standpoint, the think the STI with the 2.5T will smoke on the 350z stock for stock. But in the long run, when value and performance has to be weighed equally for my hard earned pennies, I would have to go with the Z.
Im sorry to dissapoint myself, because I really want an STi. I know a couple guys here with deposits on STi's that will buy the car just to show it off. But just to have one for the sake of having one doesn't sit well with me. What's the fun in that?
-scu
Last edited by Scubaru; Apr 5, 2003 at 01:00 AM.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally posted by metoo
Wow. I'm not sure what you call a better performance value ? All of the cars you mention have a higher $/hp ratio and even higher $/ft-lb ratio than the STi....
Wow. I'm not sure what you call a better performance value ? All of the cars you mention have a higher $/hp ratio and even higher $/ft-lb ratio than the STi....
But alas no Panoz is to be found anywhere. Panoz? Please!
As for your own listing I agree with most but do have some edits;
For my buck, I'd rather buy a slightly used and reliable WRX than spend $15-25k on a Dodge Neon with uprated front bits and a hi boost turbo. I'm sorry but Dodge just is not known for long term or even short term reliability...and thats with their regular/standard drivetrains. Don't believe me, just talk to some of those 300M owners out their.
The SRT-4 will be fun up until about 20K miles when it starts to die young like a cloned sheep. But then Billy Joel had something to say about that once...
Another & better option is the cutie pie babe magnet, modern Mini.
Built by BMW, brand name recognition with a good & positive history, very much fun to drive, comfy with power everything, still unique, factory customizable, and a DIO hi-perf engine upfitting kit is available (finance it in the deal!) to kick it up a notch to 200HP!
The Mini will get you all manner of repect on the road with a blind eye from the local COPS 'Ponch & John'. The Neon on the other hand will gain you respect amongst boys who attend kegger parties and jail bait who know who Carson Daily is and think he's cool. Ponch & John will hear your rev limiter cutting in blocks away and be ready to pounce at your every turn,
At 25-35K I'd pocket the difference on the cost of an STi or buy some winter rims & tires and skip on past the bloated 350Z Track although it makes for nice eye candy on the street. Maybe if I was 10 years older (43+) I might go this route for the 'babe' attraction factor and to impress my aging golf buddies or my 'sexcratary'. But otherwise, the 350Z is not a value.
Sorry Charlie...but spend the money you would on the 350 toward a membership to Hair Club for men or a years supply of Rogaine.
The Cobra is a beast...in a straight line, on perfectly conditioned & flat road/tarmac, in the summer, with no rain, on 93 octane. Great.
But I live, work and play in DC/MD/VA where we have potholes, sinkholes, manhole covers, steep incline/decline underground parking, and all manner of nasty & surprising weather.
Last saturday it was 70+ degrees and I was out washing my cars while the neighbors were cutting their lawns and putting out deck furniture. Then on Sunday morning I was driving to paintball at 8:30 AM in a blowing near zero visibility 'flash' snow storm that left 2 inches of snow on my deck furniture by 1PM.
Not to mention that like those guys supersized on steroids who wear tight *** 'muscle shirts' in clubs and who aren't pro-athletes or wrestlers, the only folks impressed or initmidated by the Cobra are other 'muscle' guys and Marlboro smoking women who's home address reference an apartment or lot number and who can tell the difference between Bud, Bud Lite & Bud Ice by the taste. Cobra owners also tend to own at least one copy of the "Girls Gone Wild" series.
Maybe the new 'Stang will be in the running. Maybe not.
I won't hold my breath.
The RX-8 is funky looking and kind of 'cool', but you ever notice how funky and cool seem to wear thin super quick.
Kind of like the 'chrome' on Wrigleys gum wrappers and GM & Ford interior trim pieces. It just seems to flake off.
The RX-8 handles really well and reportedly goes like stink on a track, in the corners, but it needs to be revved up really high during the straightaways in order to get any motion in the ocean.
Ok, some folks still say size doesn't matter.
But its usually heard from those who have no other option but to say 'size doesn't matter'.
Its an irrefutable, time tested and scientificly proven fact folks...nothing makes up for cubic inches. Nothing.
Know it, get over it, accept it, move on.
To be continued...
Guest
Posts: n/a
Contnued...
At $35-45K I'd be looking at something from Dodges better & bigger half, DaimlerBenz. No questions asked, a CLK drophead.
Fast, quick, handles very well, excellent build quality and resale...and you'll get the best parking space no matter where you go downtown. Yeah, people will think and say behind your back that your a snooty a$$ but so what. They'll be wishing they were you as they inhale your fumes in their own Honda Odyssey mini-van lunchbox on wheels.
The only other viable option at this range is the played out Vette, but think about reliability before signing those papers. Though you will "get that great GM feeling with genuine GM parts"!
Personally, I'll pass on the hotdog with onions and go for the weiner-schnitzle with sauerkraut on top.
$45K-55K No questions aked, its M3 baby.
Pick your transmission, manual or SMG (aka 'His & Hers' shifter), then select coupe or convertible and you're on the way to motoring nirvana.
Just as long as you didn't get one of the engines that'll burn Mobil 1 by the liter, suddenly and mysteriously spin a bearing, seize, and/or fail altogether. Remember to keep a quarter or a cell-phone in the glove box.
The other enthusiasts option is the BMW 540 'Sport' model.
Nothing beats a 5 series for smooth tractable and inifinitely smooth power on demand. It stops on a dime. Just throw the dime where you want to stop and call it a done deal. It'll out handle most everything on the road and dance just like Ginger Rogers, in heels and backwards.
She's pretty too though a bit dated in profile. But hey, like you wouldn't take Ginger Rogers to a dance!
Get beyond this price range and your in to the highly subjective area where costs are no longer based on performance as it is perceived cachet (Audi S6, RS6, S8), raw & costly performance (Porsche anything), comic book style born in the USA modern batmobile styling (Viper & Z06) or dentists, doctors, dot-bomb executives and lottery winners (Jaguar XK & XKR).
At $55K plus you are into truly rareified air. But if you really wanted to talk about best value overall the highest bang for the buck period and what is acknowledged as the best overall modern enthusiasts machine ever built and available to the masses (were not talking one off factory specials or euro only releases) is of course the true and only 'Beast', the BMW E39 "M5". It'll trounce anything that comes its way, period.
And do so with panache. Think Davd Banner under 4000K RPM and with DSC on. Then Incredible Hulk at 4200 and up or with DSC off.
Pony up $73K and you are rolling in a 1:1 digital copy of The Devil's own personal hotrod.
Possibly even Jesus would choose an M5!
Now I was actually going to get an M5 and had saved up the cash for it through the past few years. But the birth of my first child last December (bling), the economy going bust (bling, bling, bling), and our previously discretionary monies now going toward college tuition which is predicted to be when my kids 18 nearly equal to the '01 budget for the state of Mississippi (bling x 100 to the 18th power), all but killed my dreams of an M5. Maybe 18 years from now I can pick up a low mile used one out of Hemmings. Keep hope alive!
So with M5 idea gone I went down the price ladder to pick essentially anything else I wanted that was easier to manage/finance. I looked at all kinds of stuff like a used Viper ACR, the Cobra, the Z06, an Zenardi edition NSX (blah!), and more.
After doing all the math out I came to find that the STi by far offers the very best overall bang for the buck. Yeah, there are options mor luxurious (S4 & M3), or more impressive to non-enthusiasts and folks in general (M3 & Z06) or faster (Z06) or better to fit a family in (540 Sport) but overall its the STi that'll allow me to have a good time, jump on it hard and put it away wet at times and it'll always be ready to play the next day and it won't cost an arm & leg to repair if I ding it up or want to add my own custom bits.
The STi is so money!
Enough cubes to get out of its own way from a standing start or low speed start. The boost to out run its shadow when the sun is high and you want to have fun. Build quality known to last at least a decade with minimal maintenance. Oka, the paint is shoddy but hey thats why Maaco and Al Sheib are in business for.
As for the no factory radio whiners...your local Subie parts dept. will have a full selection ready for installation prior to your taking delivery. Thats assuming the DIN sized boomboxes at your local Circuit City or Best Buy don't float your little man in the boat.
Oh, and my second choice; Inifiniti G35 Coupe.
Handles, goes, seats 2+2, looks upscale (I'm 33!), priced just right and like Wonder Woman's personal jet...it's invisible to bad guys & radar but has the pull to get you out of trouble if spotted.
At $35-45K I'd be looking at something from Dodges better & bigger half, DaimlerBenz. No questions asked, a CLK drophead.
Fast, quick, handles very well, excellent build quality and resale...and you'll get the best parking space no matter where you go downtown. Yeah, people will think and say behind your back that your a snooty a$$ but so what. They'll be wishing they were you as they inhale your fumes in their own Honda Odyssey mini-van lunchbox on wheels.
The only other viable option at this range is the played out Vette, but think about reliability before signing those papers. Though you will "get that great GM feeling with genuine GM parts"!
Personally, I'll pass on the hotdog with onions and go for the weiner-schnitzle with sauerkraut on top.
$45K-55K No questions aked, its M3 baby.
Pick your transmission, manual or SMG (aka 'His & Hers' shifter), then select coupe or convertible and you're on the way to motoring nirvana.
Just as long as you didn't get one of the engines that'll burn Mobil 1 by the liter, suddenly and mysteriously spin a bearing, seize, and/or fail altogether. Remember to keep a quarter or a cell-phone in the glove box.
The other enthusiasts option is the BMW 540 'Sport' model.
Nothing beats a 5 series for smooth tractable and inifinitely smooth power on demand. It stops on a dime. Just throw the dime where you want to stop and call it a done deal. It'll out handle most everything on the road and dance just like Ginger Rogers, in heels and backwards.
She's pretty too though a bit dated in profile. But hey, like you wouldn't take Ginger Rogers to a dance!
Get beyond this price range and your in to the highly subjective area where costs are no longer based on performance as it is perceived cachet (Audi S6, RS6, S8), raw & costly performance (Porsche anything), comic book style born in the USA modern batmobile styling (Viper & Z06) or dentists, doctors, dot-bomb executives and lottery winners (Jaguar XK & XKR).
At $55K plus you are into truly rareified air. But if you really wanted to talk about best value overall the highest bang for the buck period and what is acknowledged as the best overall modern enthusiasts machine ever built and available to the masses (were not talking one off factory specials or euro only releases) is of course the true and only 'Beast', the BMW E39 "M5". It'll trounce anything that comes its way, period.
And do so with panache. Think Davd Banner under 4000K RPM and with DSC on. Then Incredible Hulk at 4200 and up or with DSC off.
Pony up $73K and you are rolling in a 1:1 digital copy of The Devil's own personal hotrod.
Possibly even Jesus would choose an M5!
Now I was actually going to get an M5 and had saved up the cash for it through the past few years. But the birth of my first child last December (bling), the economy going bust (bling, bling, bling), and our previously discretionary monies now going toward college tuition which is predicted to be when my kids 18 nearly equal to the '01 budget for the state of Mississippi (bling x 100 to the 18th power), all but killed my dreams of an M5. Maybe 18 years from now I can pick up a low mile used one out of Hemmings. Keep hope alive!
So with M5 idea gone I went down the price ladder to pick essentially anything else I wanted that was easier to manage/finance. I looked at all kinds of stuff like a used Viper ACR, the Cobra, the Z06, an Zenardi edition NSX (blah!), and more.
After doing all the math out I came to find that the STi by far offers the very best overall bang for the buck. Yeah, there are options mor luxurious (S4 & M3), or more impressive to non-enthusiasts and folks in general (M3 & Z06) or faster (Z06) or better to fit a family in (540 Sport) but overall its the STi that'll allow me to have a good time, jump on it hard and put it away wet at times and it'll always be ready to play the next day and it won't cost an arm & leg to repair if I ding it up or want to add my own custom bits.
The STi is so money!
Enough cubes to get out of its own way from a standing start or low speed start. The boost to out run its shadow when the sun is high and you want to have fun. Build quality known to last at least a decade with minimal maintenance. Oka, the paint is shoddy but hey thats why Maaco and Al Sheib are in business for.
As for the no factory radio whiners...your local Subie parts dept. will have a full selection ready for installation prior to your taking delivery. Thats assuming the DIN sized boomboxes at your local Circuit City or Best Buy don't float your little man in the boat.
Oh, and my second choice; Inifiniti G35 Coupe.
Handles, goes, seats 2+2, looks upscale (I'm 33!), priced just right and like Wonder Woman's personal jet...it's invisible to bad guys & radar but has the pull to get you out of trouble if spotted.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,013
From: california, LOS ANGELES
Car Info: dream car Subaru STi
yea goood prices metoo. sti is the best, i believe beacuse it is jdm. it is awd, it has turbo, it has an unique engine like no other. it has DCCD like no other, zo6 carrera4s mini cooper s, wtf are u saying kostamojen.. im not trying to be an a hole, im here to tell u the facts, all those cars are slow compared to the sti, u think a carrera4s is something better? lol u are just too stubborn to realize the truth. face the facts.. sti owns, yes there are cars faster than an sti.. but the sti is already right behind those fast cars that costs way more than a sti,
so pay the difference and u have a faster sti car than ur expensive a$$ zo6, something u prolly dont really know.. sti is stock turbo... u know wat that means... that means u give it an exhaust mod, intake mod, simple bolt ons will cause the sti to gain massive hp compared to all motor cars because the sti is turbo, yes turbo owns on awd with DCCD... dont even compare a carrera4s to sti, sti will own that car and own ur mini cooper s and ur slow miatas.
the sti isnt playing around wen its running AWD with 3 LSD's plus turbo that spools at 3000rpm and 300lbs of torque at 4000 rpm, yes if ur a racer u should know that will destroy. for u to call me an a hole and be so untelligent in your remarks, makes u a totaly !@#$!@!#@!$@#%.
so pay the difference and u have a faster sti car than ur expensive a$$ zo6, something u prolly dont really know.. sti is stock turbo... u know wat that means... that means u give it an exhaust mod, intake mod, simple bolt ons will cause the sti to gain massive hp compared to all motor cars because the sti is turbo, yes turbo owns on awd with DCCD... dont even compare a carrera4s to sti, sti will own that car and own ur mini cooper s and ur slow miatas.
the sti isnt playing around wen its running AWD with 3 LSD's plus turbo that spools at 3000rpm and 300lbs of torque at 4000 rpm, yes if ur a racer u should know that will destroy. for u to call me an a hole and be so untelligent in your remarks, makes u a totaly !@#$!@!#@!$@#%.
given the fact that the STi is a "modified" WRX from STi and the EVO is just a regular Evolution from mitsubishi, and the nissan Z is a regular Z from nissan. now, what would happen if ralliart and nismo also sold modified versions of these cars, i think that the ballgame would be a lot more different. remember, the WRX STi is a car that is bought by Subaru Technica International and modified to their specs. so theoretically speaking, it's already in a different class as the Evolution and Nissan Z. now bring things up to par and the tides change. Now, let's compare a Nismo tuned Z and a Ralliart tuned Evolution, which we'll see in a year or two from both companies, i'm sure. Put it this way, given that we don't really know the price of the STi yet, you could buy an EVO VIII, w/ 6-speed transmission, ACD and AYC, 280 hp (JDM numbers) which we all know is more in actuality, and a lot more goodies w/ a 3-year warranty for about 35K out the door. now these aren't de-tuned versions, they are the real versions from japan and europe. now let's talk apples to apples.
Guest
Posts: n/a
apples to apples
Originally posted by clamdip
given the fact that the STi is a "modified" WRX from STi and the EVO is just a regular Evolution from mitsubishi, and the nissan Z is a regular Z from nissan. .................................................. ........................ Put it this way, given that we don't really know the price of the STi yet, you could buy an EVO VIII, w/ 6-speed transmission, ACD and AYC, 280 hp (JDM numbers) which we all know is more in actuality, and a lot more goodies w/ a 3-year warranty for about 35K out the door. now these aren't de-tuned versions, they are the real versions from japan and europe. now let's talk apples to apples.
given the fact that the STi is a "modified" WRX from STi and the EVO is just a regular Evolution from mitsubishi, and the nissan Z is a regular Z from nissan. .................................................. ........................ Put it this way, given that we don't really know the price of the STi yet, you could buy an EVO VIII, w/ 6-speed transmission, ACD and AYC, 280 hp (JDM numbers) which we all know is more in actuality, and a lot more goodies w/ a 3-year warranty for about 35K out the door. now these aren't de-tuned versions, they are the real versions from japan and europe. now let's talk apples to apples.
He likes to bash the EVO with the STi (even though it's not even here yet...)Hey, I'm sure the STi will be a very sweet machine. SOA makes the WRX and STi modifies it. Truth is, it would have been impossible for even STi to get the power of the EVO and stay within the emmissions requirements for California... That is why they had to use the 2.5L engine. As for the ADC, AYC and the 6-speed, lots of reviewers have actually praised the EVO without these features. Sure, the cool gadget factor is much higher with the ADC & AYC, the 6th speed is a very nice overdrive but frankly, I wont miss it. I thought the 6 speed tranny would be the bomb and all so I was sure to get one with our Maxima SE 3.5L, LSD and all the trimmings.. Guess what, the 6 speed is actually not so much fun.... too many gears for everyday driving and with the Max anyway, it's hard to tell what gear you in, darn thing is so smooth, quiet and powerful that 3rd, 4th and 5th are too similar and I always forget to shift into 6th.... Oh well, I'm fine with the 5 speed EVO (maybe I'm just too old for all that stuff
)
Last edited by Yellow Rex; Apr 5, 2003 at 03:06 PM.
hey yellow i'm with ya on this one. i just read an article in sport compact car and this guy runs his Evolution in the mid to high 13's stock. that's pretty impressive. can you tell me honestly if the twin-scroll has a better feel? just wondering because i'm debating to get my hands on a 2003 JDM STi RA engine (twin-scroll) turbo. don't get me wrong though, i'm not saying that the US STi will be a total failure, and i'm sure that it's going to kick some major a$$ no doubt, but i just think that some people are much too hardcore about the whole situation and i just want to save some disappointment in the long run. look how excited everybody was about the WRX and look how fast some people are trying to get rid of it. it was the hype of this car and that of many others that causes big disappointments. but all in all, both the Evolution and the STi are great cars with a great history. (preaching mode on) and although i would love to have an STi, i'm loyal to my WRX, the car that made all this EVO and STi stuff possible. whoever still has the first production WRX has the beginning of the history of pure rally-bred cars in the US.
Last edited by clamdip; Apr 5, 2003 at 09:01 PM.
NASIOC Slut
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,723
From: Roseville, CA
Car Info: 1995 Subaru Impreza 1.8 L
Originally posted by metoo
Wow. I'm not sure what you call a better performance value ? All of the cars you mention have a higher $/hp ratio and even higher $/ft-lb ratio than the STi. Teh handling of the Sti should be very high as well. My picks for BPV cars are Cobra: tons of power and style, not much for handling though. The Z06 at $52k is no where near the price of an STi, but you can't get a new car with that much power and bite without spending a extra $52k. To the Z06 I bow. Mazdaspeed It takes a turbo just to get it to 170 measly horsepower. I'm sure it is a fun car to drive and a best built car than a SRT-4, but I'd much prefer the 250hp SRT-4 (215 is not at all accurate). How you say 4S and GTS are good BPV cars, I totally dont get it. May as well though in the Enzo with that logic. MINI, same opinion as Mazdaspeed.
Wow. I'm not sure what you call a better performance value ? All of the cars you mention have a higher $/hp ratio and even higher $/ft-lb ratio than the STi. Teh handling of the Sti should be very high as well. My picks for BPV cars are Cobra: tons of power and style, not much for handling though. The Z06 at $52k is no where near the price of an STi, but you can't get a new car with that much power and bite without spending a extra $52k. To the Z06 I bow. Mazdaspeed
It takes a turbo just to get it to 170 measly horsepower. I'm sure it is a fun car to drive and a best built car than a SRT-4, but I'd much prefer the 250hp SRT-4 (215 is not at all accurate). How you say 4S and GTS are good BPV cars, I totally dont get it. May as well though in the Enzo with that logic. MINI, same opinion as Mazdaspeed.The MINI and Mazdaspeed can both easily outhandle the Neon, and have LSD's to boot. The Mazdaspeed is undertuned, and so is the Cooper S, you can easily get more power out of those cars but the handling and quality (which the neon lacks) is already there.
The Panoz Esperante GTS is a track preped Esperante that weighs in at 2600lbs and doesnt have all the "amenities" that the street version has, and is amazingly only $50,000 ($30k less than the regular version, which is very strange). And I have a Panoz dealer right by my house, which is also a Rousche dealership, and if you know what those are, then you know its a Ford dealership
So you dont need a "special" dealership, just a licenced Ford dealer.As for the Carrerra 4S, ive seen the 911 turbos in action, and the handling on those cars is just amazing! Despite the lack of the turbo, the 4S is far cheaper and still very fast with a top end that even the STI will have trouble matching. Sure, i'd prefere the 911 Turbo and its 11.9 1/4 mile times, but its rather expensive, yet still a performance bargain at that range.
And the new Cobra has tons of power, but it is very dated, and rather heavy, not to mention hard to drive without spinning the wheels. The Z06 is better in those reguards, but the interior needs work for sure!
The RX-8 definatly sounds like a good car, and I cant wait to test drive it to see how I like it. I dont know how much of a "bargain" it will be though...
NASIOC Slut
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,723
From: Roseville, CA
Car Info: 1995 Subaru Impreza 1.8 L
Originally posted by downshift
yea goood prices metoo. sti is the best, i believe beacuse it is jdm. it is awd, it has turbo, it has an unique engine like no other. it has DCCD like no other, zo6 carrera4s mini cooper s, wtf are u saying kostamojen.. im not trying to be an a hole, im here to tell u the facts, all those cars are slow compared to the sti, u think a carrera4s is something better? lol u are just too stubborn to realize the truth. face the facts.. sti owns, yes there are cars faster than an sti.. but the sti is already right behind those fast cars that costs way more than a sti,
so pay the difference and u have a faster sti car than ur expensive a$$ zo6, something u prolly dont really know.. sti is stock turbo... u know wat that means... that means u give it an exhaust mod, intake mod, simple bolt ons will cause the sti to gain massive hp compared to all motor cars because the sti is turbo, yes turbo owns on awd with DCCD... dont even compare a carrera4s to sti, sti will own that car and own ur mini cooper s and ur slow miatas.
the sti isnt playing around wen its running AWD with 3 LSD's plus turbo that spools at 3000rpm and 300lbs of torque at 4000 rpm, yes if ur a racer u should know that will destroy. for u to call me an a hole and be so untelligent in your remarks, makes u a totaly !@#$!@!#@!$@#%.
yea goood prices metoo. sti is the best, i believe beacuse it is jdm. it is awd, it has turbo, it has an unique engine like no other. it has DCCD like no other, zo6 carrera4s mini cooper s, wtf are u saying kostamojen.. im not trying to be an a hole, im here to tell u the facts, all those cars are slow compared to the sti, u think a carrera4s is something better? lol u are just too stubborn to realize the truth. face the facts.. sti owns, yes there are cars faster than an sti.. but the sti is already right behind those fast cars that costs way more than a sti,
so pay the difference and u have a faster sti car than ur expensive a$$ zo6, something u prolly dont really know.. sti is stock turbo... u know wat that means... that means u give it an exhaust mod, intake mod, simple bolt ons will cause the sti to gain massive hp compared to all motor cars because the sti is turbo, yes turbo owns on awd with DCCD... dont even compare a carrera4s to sti, sti will own that car and own ur mini cooper s and ur slow miatas.
the sti isnt playing around wen its running AWD with 3 LSD's plus turbo that spools at 3000rpm and 300lbs of torque at 4000 rpm, yes if ur a racer u should know that will destroy. for u to call me an a hole and be so untelligent in your remarks, makes u a totaly !@#$!@!#@!$@#%.
Oh, and try reading what you write sometimes... It might help.
Guest
Posts: n/a
WRX is OK by me
Originally posted by clamdip
hey yellow i'm with ya on this one. i just read an article in sport compact car and this guy runs his Evolution in the mid to high 13's stock. that's pretty impressive. can you tell me honestly if the twin-scroll has a better feel? just wondering because i'm debating to get my hands on a 2003 JDM STi RA engine (twin-scroll) turbo. don't get me wrong though, i'm not saying that the US STi will be a total failure, and i'm sure that it's going to kick some major a$$ no doubt, but i just think that some people are much too hardcore about the whole situation and i just want to save some disappointment in the long run. look how excited everybody was about the WRX and look how fast some people are trying to get rid of it. it was the hype of this car and that of many others that causes big disappointments. but all in all, both the Evolution and the STi are great cars with a great history. (preaching mode on) and although i would love to have an STi, i'm loyal to my WRX, the car that made all this EVO and STi stuff possible. whoever still has the first production WRX has the beginning of the history of pure rally-bred cars in the US.
hey yellow i'm with ya on this one. i just read an article in sport compact car and this guy runs his Evolution in the mid to high 13's stock. that's pretty impressive. can you tell me honestly if the twin-scroll has a better feel? just wondering because i'm debating to get my hands on a 2003 JDM STi RA engine (twin-scroll) turbo. don't get me wrong though, i'm not saying that the US STi will be a total failure, and i'm sure that it's going to kick some major a$$ no doubt, but i just think that some people are much too hardcore about the whole situation and i just want to save some disappointment in the long run. look how excited everybody was about the WRX and look how fast some people are trying to get rid of it. it was the hype of this car and that of many others that causes big disappointments. but all in all, both the Evolution and the STi are great cars with a great history. (preaching mode on) and although i would love to have an STi, i'm loyal to my WRX, the car that made all this EVO and STi stuff possible. whoever still has the first production WRX has the beginning of the history of pure rally-bred cars in the US.
Having said all that, I do think it might be worth investigating the twin scroll turbo as an option. The problem with modifying the WRX is that the stock ECU will fight almost everything you do to raise boost or improve flow into, and to some extent out of the engine. Personally, I think that unless the whole ECU is changed (with all the potential issues that raises) it's very hard to make the WRX into a STi or EVO contender. OTOH, it is a very fine car in it's own right