Loaded RX-8, very sexy indeed.

 

if you want a street legal vehicle the evo and sti are it. if you have the big bucks. the BMW 33OI with the performance package or the audi a4 1.8t with a stage 1-5 factor upgrade. even with those as all options the evo and sti with dominate the others and for about 7 - 12 k less.

 

Mach5WRX.............huh

Those are completely different type of cars.

Compare to EVO and WRX STi:

325Ci, A4 3.0L are slow as hell that doesn't turn.

RX8 is slow. Handle good though. Only for rotary head and people that want a trendy looking car with 4 doors.

People that buy EVO and STi "ONLY" care about performance, nothing else, not luxury, not comfort, not image, not resale value.......etc.

People that buy 325Ci and A4 3.0L are regular everyday folks that want to make people think they are wealthy. Those 2 cars have the same level of performance as Camry and Accord, hell now a days V6 Camry and V6 Accord are so good that the 325 and A4 are actually one level below in performance. The fact is, brand name European car are way more expensive then Japanese car, for the European car that have the same price as Japanese car, they are extremely wimpy.

The STi can smoke the S4 twin turbo hard, and is only slightly slower then the M3, for at least $20K less, enough said. With that $20K left over, one can go get a Camry and have the same performance and comfort as those wimpy Euro stuff, funny huh

 

luxury ? or pure adrenaline?

 

Those of you even comparing the STI to any other car besides the EVO are missing the point completely. Of course there are other cars in the same price range with better looks, more luxury and prestige. If those are important to you, don't even waste our time in this forum.

Now for those who want a limited production car that has AWD, 300HP, 4-door, useable passenger and trunk space, and is regarded very highly in the sport of rallying and the import race car scene, the STI is for you. I, as many of you, could give a rat's *** about leather seats, nav systems, dual climate controls or yuppie me-too styling.

Who cares if you can't test your 0-60 or 1/4 mile time every freaking day? Just knowing that someday some yuppy wannabe luxury sports car owner (that paid +$10-20k more than the STI) who thinks of even being a threat at a stop light, on the freeway, or some twisty wet roads will get their asses handed to them once they taste the fury of the STI is enough for us.

 

Just a point of comparison, this is not just a Subaru. This is an Impreza built by STi. It's like saying you wouldn't pay $50k for a BMW 330 ($37k) when you are really looking at an M3 ($47k). Totally different.

 

I think Mach5WRX brings up a good point. A lot of you are not taking an objective look at the topic (which btw, if this topic is a "waste of your time" then just don't bother reading and replying to it).

No one is questioning what the STi brings to the table or saying that it is not an incredible car. I, like I'm sure anyone else on here, is a car nut. I've been very pleased with my WRX and can only imagine what it would be like to turn things up a notch with the STi. That said, it's going to be a few years before I seriously look into an STi. I know I'll be giddy once they're in showrooms, but it is certinaly not an investment to take lightly. It is certainly more risky when compared to other cars in this price range.

And it is a fair question to ask how much of the time will you be getting that extra $10-15,000 out of the car. I don't know that I'd notice it on my daily commute either. Maybe it's worth it to know you're top dog or that it's there on the rare occasion you want to race a pricey BMW. I guess that's less of an issue with me. There are always going to be cars that can do what you can and likely for even cheaper. My brother's '96 LT1 Z28 (used, sub-$9k) will outrun my '03 WRX. The new, cheaper Neon will be just as fast. Does that mean I'm a fool for paying $22k for my car? No, as each car brings something different to the table.

The STi will be an incredible car, but it isn't for everyone. OR maybe it's that it is, but it's just not a good investment for everyone! If you've got the extra 10k+ green to toss at the opportunity to own one, go for it! I just think there are less readers on this board that are truly in this financial position.

 

rlaureano seems like a very angry person. I don't think there is a need to get so defensive about the STI. Nobody is disputing that it is a tremendous car with no direct competitor, save perhaps the EVO.

I think people are just saying that those buyers who are not "hardcore" i-clubbers that demand AWD and like the fast & furious wing, will start to look at other cars in the $30-$35K range. Just because somebody may consider buying a BMW Z4 or Nissan 350z instead of paying $35K for a Subaru does not make them "unworthy" of posting on this site.

Their point is well taken - at $30-$35K Subaru is moving into an entirely new price point and target market. It will be interesting to see how it does.

 

Their point is well taken - at $30-$35K Subaru is moving into an entirely new price point and target market. It will be interesting to see how it does.

Actually Subaru is upping nearly there entire line of vehicles. $30k is nothing new to Subaru. Have you ever looked at a fully decked out Outback Wagon? It is Subaru's current luxury vehicle. Macintosh stereo, 2 moon roofs, leather, wood grain style interior trim, smooth H6 engine, alloy wheels, and AWD of course. And now with the single color paint scheme is even sweeter. Now comes the B4 Legacy, turbo Forrester, and later the turbo Baja (which desparately needs a turbo). The B4 should be the only one to pass $31k, I think.

think about it for a few minutes......$32,000 for a Subaru?

Think about what? When you go buy a pair of jeans, do you look at the material, style, and fabrication quality or the brand? I am not a brand name person. I couldn't care less about the brand name of anything. I look at all material products for what they are not who made it. It could be a Hyundai Sti for all I care al long as I saw something worth the $32k. Now if Subaru was known for making worthless cars, then your point would be well taken. But, they aren't, so you made no point. Paint sucks a$$ though. That I agree with. But would you rather have 185hp and good paint or 300hp an a few light scratches. There's no right answers, just a matter of choice.

How my times a day can I go 0-55 MPH. To all you guys that say " this car is just about performance". When are you really going to drive this car like it's made to?

So how do you enter the freeway from a signal light? How do you depart from a yeild sign when traffic is approaching fast? I don't know about you, but I do 0-70mph sprints multiple times daily. You may have had a point about the DCCD frequency of use, but power is always useable. I got my WRX to 275whp for the sole purpose of commanding the streets. I'm not talking about racing. I'm talking about taking a lane when the other drivers try to prevent you from doing so, entering the freeway from a signal light when I'm in the right lane, making up time when I'm running late for an appointment (or work), and just the general grin factor. Then suspension mods were for traffic manuevers and SCCA, and once again....the grin factor. Now if you live in downtown NY City, then a manual transmission 325i or A4 would be a much better choice, even though they are the lowest hp rated cars in there price range. I'd buy an AT 4-door EX V6 Accord way before even considering an AT 325i. [no MT in 4D EX, I think].

If you want a street legal vehicle the Evo and STi are it. If you have the big bucks, the BMW 33Oi with the performance package or the audi A4 1.8t with a stage 1-5 factor upgrade.

If you are going to do this with a 330i (or ci). You may as well spend the $46 for an M3. Dinan ain't cheap, and the 330ci is $44k. The A4 1.8t with mods for a total of $32k will get you a decent car, but not STi spec by any means. And with the dark interior, there's really nothing very luxury looking about it at all to me. Let it be known that I am no fan of the blue in the STi, but the fit and feel of the interior is much better to me (looks similar, but better than an '02 WRX). I'm sure they will both allow in less road noise.

Maybe it's worth it to know you're top dog or that it's there on the rare occasion you want to race a pricey BMW. It's not that rare where I live. But I always find deep note WS-6's, SS's, and Stang's more fun. It humerous how they avoid stopping at the next light after watching 2 extra doors and 4 fewer cylinders pull away. The BMW guys just look over with a face implying, "so what, I make this car look pretty." [SIDEBAR- Have yall seen that Audi commercial where the BMW guy was grooming in the reveiw mirror classic!]

The new, cheaper Neon will be just as fast. Does that mean I'm a fool for paying $22k for my car? I don't see you point of argument. $22000 is a great price for a car like the SRT-4, especially since the price is closer to $20k. If you can live with FWD and no LSD, then you have no problem. I'd definately buy it if I couldn't afford an EVO or STi. We are looking at car per dollar dear. The SRT-4 has a very high car/dollar ratio at least performance wise. The WRX, Evo, and STi also have a high ratio, with the STi having the highest of the three IMO.

 

I paid $22k for my '03 WRX and I don't care for the drawbacks associated with the fwd SRT-4. To me, the WRX is the best value, especially considering the price I paid. It's hard to make the case that the STi or Evo are $10-15K better than the WRX (my local Mitsu dealer wants $33k for theirs, and who knows what the STi will cost).

As for the rest, you took my quote entirely out of context. Point is: if you want to make the "my car's faster and it cost less than yours!" proclamation, there are certainly cars out there which are cheaper (used and new) that will outrun a WRX, and likely the STi as well. There is more that goes into a car buying decision, needless to say. That is the point. I'm sure the BMW driver didn't even glance at the Subaru dealership as he went to buy his Bimmer. He was looking for a different type of car.

As for street racing, it has been my experience that BMW and Corvette drivers, etc don't usually care to drag race. And LT1/LS1 Camaro and Firebird drivers will walk right past a WRX on the highway all day long. And I guess I'm in the minority because launched 0-70mph runs are not daily occurances for me.

 

It all about what is valueable to you. If a smooth ride, heated seats, navigaton system and suneroof are highy important to a consumer, then the STi isn't even worth $20k. Basically if you don't plan to use the features of a car, those features are worthless. For me, all of the aforemented things are worthless to me, which makes the 325i a low value car to me.

The STi has every performance and performance feature advantage over a WRX. And if you even consider trying to make a $25k WRX into an STi, you will spend over $25,00 in mods alone. Sure, you can make it faster and handle better for under $6000, but you will be lacking the beefier drive shafts, beefier transmission, beefier CVDs, stronger wheels, HID lamps, 25% more displacement (low end torque), steering ratio, arguably better seats, DCCD, LSD's front and rear, huge Brembos, and other things. If none of these things are important to you, then they are certainly not worht the extra money. Personally each and every performance feature makes for a great package for good price. Even the lack of stereo, best feature ever. I alway trash factory systems almost the day I drive them off the lot. Others find the missing stereo horrible. To each is own.

Now you have to be completely fair about some things you are saying. If the Sti is $32k, the price diff of it and a WRX is $7k, not 10. Sure you can get a '03 for $22k NOW. But the sticker is $25. Make this comparo a little over a year from now and the STil may very well sell $3k under. And we are talking stock for stock. Teh WRX is not even close to and STi. We an not just talking about speed either. If that's all anyone wants to justify price on, we are all over spending. I could build an 11-sec car for a total investment of $7000 or less.

Stock for stock, yes, a V8 F-body would walk all over a WRX on the highway. They could even walk over mine from a 90mph punch. Under that, it's my world. I traded my '98 Z28 for the WRX. I left tests of handling completely alone in that car. The power delivery was great though. The handling on my WRX was worlds better, even on the RE-92's which are horrible. I just bumped the hp because I missed the power from my Z. I like my seating better, my extra space, my better gas mileage, and my stealth appearance. So for my WRX plus mods at $32 is a price that I don't regret over my $25k Z. I'd do it again....if there were no STi coming.

Bottom line....list at all of a car's features, scratch off all of the things that mean nothing to you. Compare to the lists you made for other cars you are considering. If the prices are close, go with the car that has the most features you like. It is possible that $14k Neon R/T will win over a WRX. For me, Even if a 2004 Z06 was the same price as the STi, I would still buy the Sti. Others would choose the Vette. It's all in what will makes people "feel good in their cars"-Ford

 

Precisely!

 

The graph for car/dollar is not linear either. E.g. to go from a 13 second 1/4 mile to a 11 second 1/4 mile, IN A STOCK CAR, will require more than a doubling of the price.