17-18 yr olds in an Sti? Why?
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Being "able to handle" a high performance car is nice, but that has very little to do with the cause of most accidents in my opinion.
I will put myself on the line here and say that categorically the wisdom that comes with age and the responsibility of being a husband and father breeds better judgement while behind the wheel.
We old crotchety 35 years olds simply do less stupid things on public roads because we have different priorities and have learned that we are not immortal. It took my marriage, two kids, deaths of friends (one a speed related death) and my body slowing down before I got the hint that life is fragile.
I don't mean to get sappy here, but speed kills. Sometimes it's because a young driver can't handle the car. But more often, it's because the young driver has created a situation where any amount of driving skills won't save them. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's poor judgement due to immaturity.
Have fun carefully. Live and learn.
P.S. This is not exactly a rebuttal to the mail below. The mail below just got me thinking. Don't get me wrong jeffbui.
I will put myself on the line here and say that categorically the wisdom that comes with age and the responsibility of being a husband and father breeds better judgement while behind the wheel.
We old crotchety 35 years olds simply do less stupid things on public roads because we have different priorities and have learned that we are not immortal. It took my marriage, two kids, deaths of friends (one a speed related death) and my body slowing down before I got the hint that life is fragile.
I don't mean to get sappy here, but speed kills. Sometimes it's because a young driver can't handle the car. But more often, it's because the young driver has created a situation where any amount of driving skills won't save them. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's poor judgement due to immaturity.
Have fun carefully. Live and learn.
P.S. This is not exactly a rebuttal to the mail below. The mail below just got me thinking. Don't get me wrong jeffbui.
Originally posted by jeffbui
Some of the "older" (I would say more mature but that obviously doesn't apply) people here need to realize that some younger people are able to handle cars with a little bit of power. Although it's true that there are very immature 17-18 year old drivers out there, there are also a good amount of drivers just as stupid that aren't as young.
My first car was a "hand me down SUV", my second being a twin-turbo Supra, my third, a Honda S2000, and my fourth is going the be the WRX STI. I've never been in any at fault accidents and I have several friends with similar cars that are my peers. The WRX is an AWD car that is much safer to drive than one with RWD. I'm selling my car and getting the STI for practicality reasons as having a two seater isn't resourceful.
Some of the "older" (I would say more mature but that obviously doesn't apply) people here need to realize that some younger people are able to handle cars with a little bit of power. Although it's true that there are very immature 17-18 year old drivers out there, there are also a good amount of drivers just as stupid that aren't as young.
My first car was a "hand me down SUV", my second being a twin-turbo Supra, my third, a Honda S2000, and my fourth is going the be the WRX STI. I've never been in any at fault accidents and I have several friends with similar cars that are my peers. The WRX is an AWD car that is much safer to drive than one with RWD. I'm selling my car and getting the STI for practicality reasons as having a two seater isn't resourceful.
Last edited by cmlnr; Jan 23, 2003 at 09:30 AM.
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First off ... almost every top racing driver an any credible series was born with a silver spoon in their mouth. I bet a lot of them had nice cars at a young age. It takes money to race, and if you want to be a pro driver ... you have to start young.
This argument comes up way too much. Even in racing there are two trains of thought ... one is that you start with a slow car and work your way up through the ranks. The other is that you start with the fastest **** you can handle and go from there. I believe in the latter. If you want to be the next McRae you should start with an Open class WRX ... not with a production class Neon. If you look at who gets sponsored ... you'll see my point.
I think that any one at any age should be trained to handle their equipment, but the young will learn it faster.
Of course 99% of the people buying STi's will never be in a race with turns ... so my whole argument is moot.
This argument comes up way too much. Even in racing there are two trains of thought ... one is that you start with a slow car and work your way up through the ranks. The other is that you start with the fastest **** you can handle and go from there. I believe in the latter. If you want to be the next McRae you should start with an Open class WRX ... not with a production class Neon. If you look at who gets sponsored ... you'll see my point.
I think that any one at any age should be trained to handle their equipment, but the young will learn it faster.
Of course 99% of the people buying STi's will never be in a race with turns ... so my whole argument is moot.
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Originally posted by WRXSTIle
And where did this education thing come from. I never said anything about giving up your education for a car. Did I miss the post that said what you rather have a college education or an STI. and if it was posted i never said take the STI screw college (even though I'm close to 6 figures w/o it)
I also never said that one particular car would make all your dreams come true. But this is a forum based on a Car.
And like I said before if the parents said here calmdip take the keys to your new 35k$ car I seriously doubt you would turn them down. I'm real sure you would be guilt stricken as you drove off.
And where did this education thing come from. I never said anything about giving up your education for a car. Did I miss the post that said what you rather have a college education or an STI. and if it was posted i never said take the STI screw college (even though I'm close to 6 figures w/o it)
I also never said that one particular car would make all your dreams come true. But this is a forum based on a Car.
And like I said before if the parents said here calmdip take the keys to your new 35k$ car I seriously doubt you would turn them down. I'm real sure you would be guilt stricken as you drove off.
1: Drop out early or
2: Are a bonafide genius who starts college at 12 or something.
Hey, I didn't say that anybody would turn them down or not. I just think that people have their priorities misplaced if they do spend ~$35000 for their 17-18 yr old's new car. $35000 can pay for a decent college education in Cali. After then, get a job and go crazy. You gotta cook the food before you eat it.. At least thats what my parents used to say..
If people drop out of hs and make a fortune in the lottery, or become entrepeneurs (sp?) and make a fortune, by all means, splurge! I think though, that this is highly unlikely and there are also more important things for a person 17-18 yrs old to be focusing on than a super-car. But of course, like myself we'd like to dream!
Adding more of my $0.02,
Tim
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Originally posted by jeffbui
Some of the "older" (I would say more mature but that obviously doesn't apply) people here need to realize that some younger people are able to handle cars with a little bit of power. Although it's true that there are very immature 17-18 year old drivers out there, there are also a good amount of drivers just as stupid that aren't as young.
My first car was a "hand me down SUV", my second being a twin-turbo Supra, my third, a Honda S2000, and my fourth is going the be the WRX STI. I've never been in any at fault accidents and I have several friends with similar cars that are my peers. The WRX is an AWD car that is much safer to drive than one with RWD. I'm selling my car and getting the STI for practicality reasons as having a two seater isn't resourceful.
Some of the "older" (I would say more mature but that obviously doesn't apply) people here need to realize that some younger people are able to handle cars with a little bit of power. Although it's true that there are very immature 17-18 year old drivers out there, there are also a good amount of drivers just as stupid that aren't as young.
My first car was a "hand me down SUV", my second being a twin-turbo Supra, my third, a Honda S2000, and my fourth is going the be the WRX STI. I've never been in any at fault accidents and I have several friends with similar cars that are my peers. The WRX is an AWD car that is much safer to drive than one with RWD. I'm selling my car and getting the STI for practicality reasons as having a two seater isn't resourceful.
On the other hand, how were you able to afford these cars and how old were you when you received/bought the cars? I know that even used, the TT Supras are NOT cheap. 7 yr old TT 300ZXs are ~20,000 in mint condition and I believe that TT Supras are in the same neighborhood.
Also, the transition from a "hand me down SUV" to a TT Supra is quite drastic. You must be quite a driver to transition so well.
Tim
Last edited by samurai; Jan 23, 2003 at 01:05 PM.
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Originally posted by cmlnr
Being "able to handle" a high performance car is nice, but that has very little to do with the cause of most accidents in my opinion.
I will put myself on the line here and say that categorically the wisdom that comes with age and the responsibility of being a husband and father breeds better judgement while behind the wheel.
We old crotchety 35 years olds simply do less stupid things on public roads because we have different priorities and have learned that we are not immortal. It took my marriage, two kids, deaths of friends (one a speed related death) and my body slowing down before I got the hint that life is fragile.
I don't mean to get sappy here, but speed kills. Sometimes it's because a young driver can't handle the car. But more often, it's because the young driver has created a situation where any amount of driving skills won't save them. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's poor judgement due to immaturity.
Have fun carefully. Live and learn.
P.S. This is not exactly a rebuttal to the mail below. The mail below just got me thinking. Don't get me wrong jeffbui.
Being "able to handle" a high performance car is nice, but that has very little to do with the cause of most accidents in my opinion.
I will put myself on the line here and say that categorically the wisdom that comes with age and the responsibility of being a husband and father breeds better judgement while behind the wheel.
We old crotchety 35 years olds simply do less stupid things on public roads because we have different priorities and have learned that we are not immortal. It took my marriage, two kids, deaths of friends (one a speed related death) and my body slowing down before I got the hint that life is fragile.
I don't mean to get sappy here, but speed kills. Sometimes it's because a young driver can't handle the car. But more often, it's because the young driver has created a situation where any amount of driving skills won't save them. I know I'll get flamed for this, but it's poor judgement due to immaturity.
Have fun carefully. Live and learn.
P.S. This is not exactly a rebuttal to the mail below. The mail below just got me thinking. Don't get me wrong jeffbui.
Samurai - I'm not going to lie and say I earned the cars myself but I've been fortunate enough to be the only child to a set of generous parents. They put me in the SUV first as a safety precaution. Also, I don't think that someone throwing down $35,000 for a car for their children will divert money from that childs education to his/her car.
On a lighter note, a pristine Supra is difficult to find these days as most are modded. I would love to own a Supra again but buying a another used car is out of the question. Look at the retail sales statistics: http://www.mkiv.com/specifications/sales_numbers/reta
Only about 12,000 were imported into the U.S. from 1993-1998, including the normally aspirated versions. There was a remodel for the 1997-1998 versions making them the ones to get. Finding a stock one with low miles will set you back 30-40K. Talk about limited. If anyone doesn't know why Supras are so hot, ask me.
I'll give the details.
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While it's true that not all 17-18 year olds are bad drivers, statistics suggest that the majority are. My personal experience confirms that--5 of my 6 close high school friends (including myself) got in some sort of accident in the first 2 years of driving. Two were accidents involving reckless driving and speed.
In one of the cases of speed, my friend rolled his mother's older Honda Accord while racing my other friend on a 2 lane road, totalling the car. The other case (which didn't do substantial damage to the car), my friend was speeding around a corner and skidded off the road ending up 80 feet into someone's yard.
Bad drivers can get into trouble in any car, but if you're in a high horsepower car, you can obviously be going a lot faster. That means an accident is more likely to get you or others killed. If my friend that totalled the Accord had been in a 300hp car instead of a 100hp car, he could have been going over 90 mph instead of 50 mph on the uphill stretch of road where he went off due to some gravel, and he'd be dead. Of course my other friend probably would have given up on racing him in that case, since he drove a POS!
It's not a matter whether kids have enough "skill" to drive well (although in my opinion, most people do get better with age and experience up to a point). The points is--90% of kids drive irresponsibly at least some of the time. I did and all my friends did. I'm not saying anyone doesn't "deserve" a fast car--I'm just saying as a responsible parent concerned with the safety of your child, you should get them something slow and safe as their daily driver. And if they want to experience speed, send them to driving school first, then let them drive your car in autocross or at the track where it's safe (I plan to always own at least one performance vehicle in my garage). I certainly would not give my kid a 300hp vehicle to commute to school and back home, but to each his own...
--Jason
In one of the cases of speed, my friend rolled his mother's older Honda Accord while racing my other friend on a 2 lane road, totalling the car. The other case (which didn't do substantial damage to the car), my friend was speeding around a corner and skidded off the road ending up 80 feet into someone's yard.
Bad drivers can get into trouble in any car, but if you're in a high horsepower car, you can obviously be going a lot faster. That means an accident is more likely to get you or others killed. If my friend that totalled the Accord had been in a 300hp car instead of a 100hp car, he could have been going over 90 mph instead of 50 mph on the uphill stretch of road where he went off due to some gravel, and he'd be dead. Of course my other friend probably would have given up on racing him in that case, since he drove a POS!
It's not a matter whether kids have enough "skill" to drive well (although in my opinion, most people do get better with age and experience up to a point). The points is--90% of kids drive irresponsibly at least some of the time. I did and all my friends did. I'm not saying anyone doesn't "deserve" a fast car--I'm just saying as a responsible parent concerned with the safety of your child, you should get them something slow and safe as their daily driver. And if they want to experience speed, send them to driving school first, then let them drive your car in autocross or at the track where it's safe (I plan to always own at least one performance vehicle in my garage). I certainly would not give my kid a 300hp vehicle to commute to school and back home, but to each his own...
--Jason
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Originally posted by jeffbui
I totally agree with you. I have seen my fair share of younger drivers being stupid. Actually, I would like to emphasize that it isn't the car but it's the driver
I totally agree with you. I have seen my fair share of younger drivers being stupid. Actually, I would like to emphasize that it isn't the car but it's the driver
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Originally posted by Drover
Forget the STi. Punks are wrapping regular WRXs around trees at prodigious rates. Can't wait to see what happens when a few of them get their hands on STis.
Forget the STi. Punks are wrapping regular WRXs around trees at prodigious rates. Can't wait to see what happens when a few of them get their hands on STis.
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showth...threadid=17839
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I look at it this way:
If you are that young and can afford it somehow, great, more power to you. I'm sure all of us older people would have loved to be able to do that.
Just please please please, ---Be CAREFUL, and dont get in any accidents. 2 reasons:
1.) you will most likely die and someone else on the waiting list could have had that car.
&
2.) you will drive up the insurance rates for the rest of us SAFE drivers.
If you are that young and can afford it somehow, great, more power to you. I'm sure all of us older people would have loved to be able to do that.
Just please please please, ---Be CAREFUL, and dont get in any accidents. 2 reasons:
1.) you will most likely die and someone else on the waiting list could have had that car.
&
2.) you will drive up the insurance rates for the rest of us SAFE drivers.
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Originally posted by Drover
God I hated those talking cars...
"Your door is ajar..... Your door is ajar.... Your door is aj--"
SHADDAP! *WHAM!*
"Your foot is in the door speaker... your foot is in the door speaker..."
God I hated those talking cars...
"Your door is ajar..... Your door is ajar.... Your door is aj--"
SHADDAP! *WHAM!*
"Your foot is in the door speaker... your foot is in the door speaker..."
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I swear mine was like knight riders older uncle or something it had a computer that told you how far you could go on the gas you had, your average speed....and if you buckled up right away it said "all monitored systems are functioning normaly" and instead of a turbo boost there was a built in rear speaker amp (hah and Audi thought they did it first).