Official Mt.Madonna Thread!
General Pimpin'
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From: Knee deep in beer. subabrew crew, ca.
Car Info: MY04 aspen wrx wagon.
The off the shelf Cobb maps arnt much different. This dude is just improving things based on data logs. Only part I don't like is the virtual dyno. I think seeing your own car on a dyno and the whole tuning experience would be why I would go with eq/gst etc... That being said I don't believe the tunes that truetoform and procede are runing are unsafe, the company they used is well known and the tuner is trying to build a solid reputation. Every car is different so if anything this guys tunes are more reliable than cobbs OTS maps since they are based on data logs from that particular vehicle and not an average.
That's all I'm saying. To each their own but I've been on so many forums for so many years and seen so many "legit" tuners pop up out of no where and be these huge rages for a minute. They're active on the forums or whatever, they get a few success stories and hook a few people up. Then they get these forum lackies up their asses. Some folks have been able to turn this into a business. Some turn out to be exactly what they are... some dude learning how to do something on other peoples cars with no insurance and without them aware of what's REALLY going on.
So for me... why risk it. We have good tuners available to us already that have already proven their worth.
We have a guy that's tuning 1000hp cars and has tuned THOUSANDS of cars himself. Cobb has tens of thousands of people running their tunes safely. Paul has been tuning longer than most of the people on these forums have been able to talk. Ed has been doing this a while himself. Shiggy. Shiv. Etc. We have guys all around us that have already gone through this process.
No internet tuner is going to be doing anything they're not already doing. Any tuner will tell you that no tuner tunes without blowing up a motor eventually.
I'd just rather it happen with someone I know has my back.
I have no clue who this guy they're using is or if he's truly any good. He might be a genius. I'm just talking about the process in general. And me personally.
If they're happy with their cars, more power to them. Enjoy it. That's what it's all about.
Who the hell knows. Maybe I'll get my car together and it'll explode immediately after and you guys will say... shoulda let blah blah tune it. Or maybe yours will and I'll say...
you know...
That's just how it is.
I'm not trying to offend. I just think it's a foolish risk. That comes from 15 years of doing this and making my own mistakes.
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From: Watson,Kalifas!
Car Info: Un Carrito Que Hace Vrooom Phsss!
Lol... Damm book writers lol... To each their own! Everyone is happy with their tunes... And I'm happy when I smoke them ... Oh lol thinking out loud haha .. Jk.
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From: Salas Homes!
Car Info: Norco 29er Mtn Bike
Oh and Ray I agree with you on most of what your going to turn into a novel later (long posts lol).
All I'm trying to say is from what I have heard and seen the guy who did the tune for truetoform and the others is legit. Hell I think it took more than 5 tunes based off of a bunch of data logs to get Matt's tune right and he recommended removing his after market BOV during the process. The guy is taking his time and doing it right. I gave Matt a ration of ish when I first talked to him about it but when he explained the process I felt more comfortable about the idea.
Supporting local business/shops is a whole other story. Personally I plan on going back to EQ when I decide to get tuned again just simply because I had a good experience with Ed and like his shop and having the car on the dyno for the tune etc.. Plus he has done some really impressive tunes for people(not that other havnt)
Hmm I can get a MBC and custom tune at eq for less than a used AP.. TEMPTING
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From: Salas Homes!
Car Info: Norco 29er Mtn Bike
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,064
From: Watson,Kalifas!
Car Info: Un Carrito Que Hace Vrooom Phsss!
I've had both... What do you want? Performance or sound? I had my blitz nur spec r and gt spec UEL headers, sounded great and performed similar to my stock headers no big diff. I then went EL with blitz exhaust and the sound was diff but not too diff, I still had some rumble.. Spool was quick.. My tuner told me UEL headers are a waste of money.. I belive him. I know have a straight pipe so the sound is more raspy now... Still I recommend EL if you want hp.. If you want to keep you rumble sound keep you stock headers.
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From: Bay Area California
Car Info: Flared laguna seca GD
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 328
From: Bay Area California
Car Info: Flared laguna seca GD
I've had both... What do you want? Performance or sound? I had my blitz nur spec r and gt spec UEL headers, sounded great and performed similar to my stock headers no big diff. I then went EL with blitz exhaust and the sound was diff but not too diff, I still had some rumble.. Spool was quick.. My tuner told me UEL headers are a waste of money.. I belive him. I know have a straight pipe so the sound is more raspy now... Still I recommend EL if you want hp.. If you want to keep you rumble sound keep you stock headers.
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iTrader: (3)
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Posts: 328
From: Bay Area California
Car Info: Flared laguna seca GD
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From: Morgan Hill
Car Info: 2011 WRX Sedan
My issue with these online tunes is this... EVERY car is different.
Cobb has base tunes designed around a certain type of modifications. They are safe tunes. They work well.
Most of these forum tuners are just taking tunes that are already available and tweaking them a little bit and then calling them custom tunes and selling them. And people eat them up because it's cheaper than paying for a real tuner.
Are there real tuners doing similar things. Yup. Hell, I think Ed is starting to offer the service. But these guys have tons of tunes to choose from with tons of part combinations. And they've got a company and insurance to back them up... hopefully.
If you're driving around in a bone stock car and want a tune to help a little. Sure why not... but you might as well go with something proven like Cobb. Custom tunes aren't really necessary at that point. Hell, I've seen cars come in with a cobb tune and be put on a dyno and see tuners pretty much say... yeah that's about the best you're gonna get without pushing the tune past comfortable.
You start changing a parts out and there comes a point where your car is going to be different than other cars.
My motor with a cat less turbo back and the other parts on it is going to be different than another car with the exact same parts on it. Will some random *** tune from some random *** dude that is probably using a tune he found somewhere anyways work. Probably. Do I want to risk my motor on it. Hell no.
That's where my issue with it comes in.
Does it work. Sure, most of the time. But what do you do if you're one of the one's that it doesn't. You don't have any logs to show your car is in a safe AFR. It just feels good because you have more power. I personally don't like the data in the above charts but that's just me. You put a tune you got from some dude on the internet... even if it's a tuner from timbuktu but he's a "tuner"... and it runs o.k. for a minute. Then you push it and pop your motor. What do you do? Not a damned thing. You don't know what it failed. Was it a part failure or was the tune just a ticking time bomb. You don't know anything and you don't have any support. Now you're out $4-8k.
Now say I take my car to a tuner and have them put it on their dyno... are there any guarantees that my car isn't going to blow up on the dyno. Nope. But I know the only 2 guys that would ever touch my car are trust worthy and will have my back. If it's at all their fault they'll take care of me.
And while you're there you can look at numbers... HAVE DATA... and find something YOU AND THE TUNER are comfortable with that is suited to YOU VEHICLE.
That's why it's a custom tune.
I'm all for box tunes on car with little to no mods and low miles. But even then I'd personally stick with proven ones like Cobb or get one from a local tuner. They have box tunes too.
But for me... I'll gladly pay the extra few bucks to have the peace of mind.
I know without a doubt that Mike is gonna sit there and take is time with my car and do what I want and if something goes he'll take care of me... within reason. Same would go for Paul at FW.
I don't like having to trust some guy that doesn't know me, I don't know him and he has never seen my car.
We have so many choices in the bay are of quality shops, I just get amazed when I see people go around it.
I'm all for saving a buck. I can't afford to drop my car off with Paul or Mike right now for a new motor so I'm trying to find parts wherever I can. It's understandable. But we're talking differences of thousands of dollars... not $100-200.
I'll pay $200 for peace of mind and a relationship with a local shop any day of the week.
Cobb has base tunes designed around a certain type of modifications. They are safe tunes. They work well.
Most of these forum tuners are just taking tunes that are already available and tweaking them a little bit and then calling them custom tunes and selling them. And people eat them up because it's cheaper than paying for a real tuner.
Are there real tuners doing similar things. Yup. Hell, I think Ed is starting to offer the service. But these guys have tons of tunes to choose from with tons of part combinations. And they've got a company and insurance to back them up... hopefully.
If you're driving around in a bone stock car and want a tune to help a little. Sure why not... but you might as well go with something proven like Cobb. Custom tunes aren't really necessary at that point. Hell, I've seen cars come in with a cobb tune and be put on a dyno and see tuners pretty much say... yeah that's about the best you're gonna get without pushing the tune past comfortable.
You start changing a parts out and there comes a point where your car is going to be different than other cars.
My motor with a cat less turbo back and the other parts on it is going to be different than another car with the exact same parts on it. Will some random *** tune from some random *** dude that is probably using a tune he found somewhere anyways work. Probably. Do I want to risk my motor on it. Hell no.
That's where my issue with it comes in.
Does it work. Sure, most of the time. But what do you do if you're one of the one's that it doesn't. You don't have any logs to show your car is in a safe AFR. It just feels good because you have more power. I personally don't like the data in the above charts but that's just me. You put a tune you got from some dude on the internet... even if it's a tuner from timbuktu but he's a "tuner"... and it runs o.k. for a minute. Then you push it and pop your motor. What do you do? Not a damned thing. You don't know what it failed. Was it a part failure or was the tune just a ticking time bomb. You don't know anything and you don't have any support. Now you're out $4-8k.
Now say I take my car to a tuner and have them put it on their dyno... are there any guarantees that my car isn't going to blow up on the dyno. Nope. But I know the only 2 guys that would ever touch my car are trust worthy and will have my back. If it's at all their fault they'll take care of me.
And while you're there you can look at numbers... HAVE DATA... and find something YOU AND THE TUNER are comfortable with that is suited to YOU VEHICLE.
That's why it's a custom tune.
I'm all for box tunes on car with little to no mods and low miles. But even then I'd personally stick with proven ones like Cobb or get one from a local tuner. They have box tunes too.
But for me... I'll gladly pay the extra few bucks to have the peace of mind.
I know without a doubt that Mike is gonna sit there and take is time with my car and do what I want and if something goes he'll take care of me... within reason. Same would go for Paul at FW.
I don't like having to trust some guy that doesn't know me, I don't know him and he has never seen my car.
We have so many choices in the bay are of quality shops, I just get amazed when I see people go around it.
I'm all for saving a buck. I can't afford to drop my car off with Paul or Mike right now for a new motor so I'm trying to find parts wherever I can. It's understandable. But we're talking differences of thousands of dollars... not $100-200.
I'll pay $200 for peace of mind and a relationship with a local shop any day of the week.
lol seriously