Japan 8.8M quake + mega tsunami
03-16-2011, 06:18 PM
#241
03-16-2011, 06:19 PM
#242
Oh, I know there have been advances in plant design and safety. My question is why isn't there more research going in to what to do when this stuff does happen... because obviously it does.
No one can predict what is going to happen in the future... like how big of an earthquake you'll have to deal with. Etc. So you design and build for what you can. Just seems that there should be some kind of foam or something that you can spray to seal this up... but I think I've watched to much "fringe" LOL.
Seriously though. Do we have anything like that? Like if all hell is about to go down can they just flood the plant with some kind of super coolant?
No one can predict what is going to happen in the future... like how big of an earthquake you'll have to deal with. Etc. So you design and build for what you can. Just seems that there should be some kind of foam or something that you can spray to seal this up... but I think I've watched to much "fringe" LOL.
Seriously though. Do we have anything like that? Like if all hell is about to go down can they just flood the plant with some kind of super coolant?
03-16-2011, 06:23 PM
#243
Oh, I know there have been advances in plant design and safety. My question is why isn't there more research going in to what to do when this stuff does happen... because obviously it does.
No one can predict what is going to happen in the future... like how big of an earthquake you'll have to deal with. Etc. So you design and build for what you can. Just seems that there should be some kind of foam or something that you can spray to seal this up... but I think I've watched to much "fringe" LOL.
Seriously though. Do we have anything like that? Like if all hell is about to go down can they just flood the plant with some kind of super coolant?
No one can predict what is going to happen in the future... like how big of an earthquake you'll have to deal with. Etc. So you design and build for what you can. Just seems that there should be some kind of foam or something that you can spray to seal this up... but I think I've watched to much "fringe" LOL.
Seriously though. Do we have anything like that? Like if all hell is about to go down can they just flood the plant with some kind of super coolant?
03-16-2011, 06:26 PM
#245
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what is an acceptable level? who determines what's acceptable? and what about the rain that's forecasted as well? personally, I'd rather be safe... we all know that the law does a **** poor job of protecting the public. i'd gtfo... but's it's tough. my friend had to walk 7hrs to his family from work. my other buddy takes an hr train each way to work, he couldn't possibly walk that far and stayed in the 20th flr of his work... that had to suck.
Last edited by NorCalPaintball; 03-16-2011 at 06:28 PM.
03-16-2011, 07:31 PM
#246
what is an acceptable level? who determines what's acceptable? and what about the rain that's forecasted as well? personally, I'd rather be safe... we all know that the law does a **** poor job of protecting the public. i'd gtfo... but's it's tough. my friend had to walk 7hrs to his family from work. my other buddy takes an hr train each way to work, he couldn't possibly walk that far and stayed in the 20th flr of his work... that had to suck.
Last edited by blaznasn; 03-16-2011 at 07:36 PM.
03-17-2011, 12:28 AM
#247
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I don't know what is acceptable, the govt. allows workers at plants to absorb 3-5 rem/year. No one really knows what exactly is safe or not unless it is very high ~10rem or higher. A few studies have been done, but a lot of these numbers the govt sets have little basis. The only real life info we have to go off of is from Chernobyl.
Japan's old limit to what was acceptable and legal to the workers at the plant was 50 mrems a year. They upped the legal limit to 250 mrems a year Wednesday. But at the same time, there have been reports already of some of those workers getting acute radiation poisoning. This means that there could have been either more radiation than reported or acute poison is much lower than expected.
Either way, it isn't good.
Reactor 4 ( I believe the one what was not in service the time of the quake, so they were in process of changing to new rods) lost all the water in the used rod tank. Quote:
Spokesmen for TEPCO and Japan’s regulatory agency, Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency, on March 17 Japan time refuted reports that there was a complete loss of cooling water in the used fuel pool at ***ushima Daiichi reactor 4.
What this all means in the end? How much radiation can be given off if the used fuel rod tank is exposed? I know not as much as the reactor, but it won't be good is my thought.
I think someone here gave the original link to the NEI news site, but I find that it is very up to date and not over sensationalizing what is happening, pretty much what the original poster of the link said.
03-17-2011, 09:31 AM
#249
update, hope this calms some of your worries
Dear NEI Member:
UPDATE AS OF 11:35 A.M. EDT, THURSDAY, MARCH 17:
***ushima Daiichi
The reactors at the ***ushima Daiichi plant are in stable condition and are being cooled with seawater, but workers at the plant continue efforts to add cooling water to fuel pools at reactors 3 and 4.
The status of the reactors at the site is as follows:
Reactor 1’s primary containment is believed to be intact and the reactor is in a stable condition. Seawater injection into the reactor is continuing.
Reactor 2 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The reactor’s primary containment may not have been breached, Tokyo Electric Power Co. and World Association of Nuclear Operators officials said on Thursday. Containment pressure is at 65 psig, an indication that containment has not been breached.
Access problems at the site have delayed connection of a temporary cable to restore offsite electricity. The connection will provide power to the control rod drive pump, instrumentation, batteries, and power to the control room. Power has not been available at the site since the earthquake on March 11.
Reactor 3 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The primary containment is believed to be intact. Pressure in the containment has fluctuated due to venting of the reactor containment structure, but has been as high as 83 psig.
TEPCO officials say that although one side of the concrete wall of the fuel pool structure has collapsed, the steel liner of the pool remains intact, based on aerial photos of the reactor taken on March 17. The pool still has water providing some cooling for the fuel, however helicopters dropped water on the reactor four times during the morning (Japan time) on March 17. Water also was sprayed at reactor 4 using high pressure water cannons.
Reactors 5 and 6 were both shut down before the quake occurred. Primary and secondary containments are intact at both reactors. Temperature instruments in the spent fuel pools at reactors 5 and 6 are operational, and temperatures are being maintained at about 62 degrees Celsius. TEPCO is continuing efforts to restore power at reactor 5.
***ushima Daini
All four reactors at the ***ushima Daini plant have reached cold shutdown conditions with normal cooling being maintained using residual heat removal systems.
Dear NEI Member:
UPDATE AS OF 11:35 A.M. EDT, THURSDAY, MARCH 17:
***ushima Daiichi
The reactors at the ***ushima Daiichi plant are in stable condition and are being cooled with seawater, but workers at the plant continue efforts to add cooling water to fuel pools at reactors 3 and 4.
The status of the reactors at the site is as follows:
Reactor 1’s primary containment is believed to be intact and the reactor is in a stable condition. Seawater injection into the reactor is continuing.
Reactor 2 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The reactor’s primary containment may not have been breached, Tokyo Electric Power Co. and World Association of Nuclear Operators officials said on Thursday. Containment pressure is at 65 psig, an indication that containment has not been breached.
Access problems at the site have delayed connection of a temporary cable to restore offsite electricity. The connection will provide power to the control rod drive pump, instrumentation, batteries, and power to the control room. Power has not been available at the site since the earthquake on March 11.
Reactor 3 is in stable condition with seawater injection continuing. The primary containment is believed to be intact. Pressure in the containment has fluctuated due to venting of the reactor containment structure, but has been as high as 83 psig.
TEPCO officials say that although one side of the concrete wall of the fuel pool structure has collapsed, the steel liner of the pool remains intact, based on aerial photos of the reactor taken on March 17. The pool still has water providing some cooling for the fuel, however helicopters dropped water on the reactor four times during the morning (Japan time) on March 17. Water also was sprayed at reactor 4 using high pressure water cannons.
Reactors 5 and 6 were both shut down before the quake occurred. Primary and secondary containments are intact at both reactors. Temperature instruments in the spent fuel pools at reactors 5 and 6 are operational, and temperatures are being maintained at about 62 degrees Celsius. TEPCO is continuing efforts to restore power at reactor 5.
***ushima Daini
All four reactors at the ***ushima Daini plant have reached cold shutdown conditions with normal cooling being maintained using residual heat removal systems.
03-17-2011, 09:42 AM
#250
Just by going with what I have been reading and hearing on the radio.
Japan's old limit to what was acceptable and legal to the workers at the plant was 50 mrems a year. They upped the legal limit to 250 mrems a year Wednesday. But at the same time, there have been reports already of some of those workers getting acute radiation poisoning. This means that there could have been either more radiation than reported or acute poison is much lower than expected.
Either way, it isn't good.
Reactor 4 ( I believe the one what was not in service the time of the quake, so they were in process of changing to new rods) lost all the water in the used rod tank. Quote:
The Link
What this all means in the end? How much radiation can be given off if the used fuel rod tank is exposed? I know not as much as the reactor, but it won't be good is my thought.
I think someone here gave the original link to the NEI news site, but I find that it is very up to date and not over sensationalizing what is happening, pretty much what the original poster of the link said.
Japan's old limit to what was acceptable and legal to the workers at the plant was 50 mrems a year. They upped the legal limit to 250 mrems a year Wednesday. But at the same time, there have been reports already of some of those workers getting acute radiation poisoning. This means that there could have been either more radiation than reported or acute poison is much lower than expected.
Either way, it isn't good.
Reactor 4 ( I believe the one what was not in service the time of the quake, so they were in process of changing to new rods) lost all the water in the used rod tank. Quote:
The Link
What this all means in the end? How much radiation can be given off if the used fuel rod tank is exposed? I know not as much as the reactor, but it won't be good is my thought.
I think someone here gave the original link to the NEI news site, but I find that it is very up to date and not over sensationalizing what is happening, pretty much what the original poster of the link said.
acute radiation poisoning can be pretty serious, some cases leading to eventual death.
The Japanese limits for the plant works you quoted seems low, that sounds more like a limit for the general public. Here in the USA that is around 100mrem I believe per year for the public.
The body can handle a lot of radiation and still be okay. I will wait to see the reports on the workers getting acute radiation sickness, it seems somewhat unlikely. There was one worker who received 10rem (2X USA annual limit), he probably felt sick but I don't think he will die.
03-17-2011, 09:43 AM
#251
, maybe there was a fire they couldn't get to from the ground.
03-17-2011, 11:28 AM
#253
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radiation levels at the plant seem to have gotten pretty high, enough to temporarily evacuate all the emergency workers.
acute radiation poisoning can be pretty serious, some cases leading to eventual death.
The Japanese limits for the plant works you quoted seems low, that sounds more like a limit for the general public. Here in the USA that is around 100mrem I believe per year for the public.
The body can handle a lot of radiation and still be okay. I will wait to see the reports on the workers getting acute radiation sickness, it seems somewhat unlikely. There was one worker who received 10rem (2X USA annual limit), he probably felt sick but I don't think he will die.
acute radiation poisoning can be pretty serious, some cases leading to eventual death.
The Japanese limits for the plant works you quoted seems low, that sounds more like a limit for the general public. Here in the USA that is around 100mrem I believe per year for the public.
The body can handle a lot of radiation and still be okay. I will wait to see the reports on the workers getting acute radiation sickness, it seems somewhat unlikely. There was one worker who received 10rem (2X USA annual limit), he probably felt sick but I don't think he will die.
Last edited by NorCalPaintball; 03-17-2011 at 11:35 AM.
03-17-2011, 12:25 PM
#254
i heard "they're" asking the older workers to do the dirty, cause they have more chance to die from old age vs radiation poisoning, and aren't prob planning on having any more children. that would suck to draw the short straw there... and doesn't radiation in the body cause free radicals that cause most types of cancer? i still think that they're continuing to downplay the severity and the potential danger to not cause more widespread regional panic. good to see though that at least their market came back 6% of the 10% it dropped the other day. it's also like 20 degrees F during the nights... and thinking more about it, the water must have been soooo cold, it's prob the same temp as here (52-60 degrees F) i think. if there is a god(s), we need his/her/their help now. all citizens of other countries are "strongly" suggested to evacuate and we're providing free trips out for u.s. citizens. germany got all theirs out too. my buddy's been at an airport for the past day. they're running out of medicines now too for the sick and elderly.
03-17-2011, 12:27 PM
#255
Interesting read about why japanese people don't loot in times like these
http://www.slate.com/id/2288514/
http://www.slate.com/id/2288514/