Cheaper ECU flash?
02-07-2003, 11:38 AM
#18
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http://www.i-speedusa.com/home/
has some in the tuning section...i know we need to update it.
The ECUtek is $750 with personal tuning (street or dyno time).
Hp numbers are dependant on your existing modifications.
Expect ~24hp from a stock wrx. Yes, that 24 is to the wheels.
Chris
has some in the tuning section...i know we need to update it.
The ECUtek is $750 with personal tuning (street or dyno time).
Hp numbers are dependant on your existing modifications.
Expect ~24hp from a stock wrx. Yes, that 24 is to the wheels.
Chris
02-07-2003, 07:48 PM
#19
Originally posted by bemani
At least make it $750 with tax included
At least make it $750 with tax included
02-07-2003, 08:04 PM
#20
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Jose
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Car Info: White '03 WRX Sedan Manual
Chris,
So the flash is 750 which includes a 2 hour street tuning right? What's the out the door price after tax and everything? If later on I fail the smog test and decide that I want to reflash the stock map, do I again have to pay another 750? What's your location, the address to be exact so that I can physically talk to you.
Thanks
Alan
So the flash is 750 which includes a 2 hour street tuning right? What's the out the door price after tax and everything? If later on I fail the smog test and decide that I want to reflash the stock map, do I again have to pay another 750? What's your location, the address to be exact so that I can physically talk to you.
Thanks
Alan
02-07-2003, 08:06 PM
#21
Dork
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 144
Car Info: 2005 STi, 2005 OXT
Hello,
Slack, yeah, that bothers me. Sales tax on a service?
But then again, back when I was in school and too poor to buy skiis, I rented them. There was always "sales" tax on rentals, too.
Any accountants or economics folks wanna 'splain that stuff?
Joel
Slack, yeah, that bothers me. Sales tax on a service?
But then again, back when I was in school and too poor to buy skiis, I rented them. There was always "sales" tax on rentals, too.
Any accountants or economics folks wanna 'splain that stuff?
Joel
02-07-2003, 08:44 PM
#22
Retail sales of tangible personal property in California are generally subject to sales tax. Examples of tangible personal property include such items as furniture, giftware, toys, antiques, clothing, and so forth. In addition, some service and labor costs are subject to sales tax if they result in the creation of tangible personal property.
I don't think that reflashing the ecu ever creates a tangible product.
I don't think that reflashing the ecu ever creates a tangible product.
02-07-2003, 08:48 PM
#23
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Posts: n/a
Once a license is used (sold to a customer, the ‘first flash’) that ECU/customer can go back to his perspective ECUtek dealer and get a re-flash without having to pay the initial license fee. What the customer does pay, for the second or third or fourth flash, is entirely up to the tuner.
The license IS a tangible product.
We do have a business (Licenses and all) and have to abide by certain laws. One of them is sales tax. When we sell a "widget" (not a consumable or service like labor) we must show the govt. that 1. We sold something. 2. We will happily give the govt. their fair share of our hard earned money…i.e TAX. So, unfortunately, yes there is tax on the $750 ECUtek flash.
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
Any additional flash thereafter is a labor charge (a tuning fee) and thus it is NOT taxed.
Did that clear anything up?
chris
The license IS a tangible product.
We do have a business (Licenses and all) and have to abide by certain laws. One of them is sales tax. When we sell a "widget" (not a consumable or service like labor) we must show the govt. that 1. We sold something. 2. We will happily give the govt. their fair share of our hard earned money…i.e TAX. So, unfortunately, yes there is tax on the $750 ECUtek flash.
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
Any additional flash thereafter is a labor charge (a tuning fee) and thus it is NOT taxed.
Did that clear anything up?
chris
02-07-2003, 09:04 PM
#24
So the tax is for the ECUTek license, correct? Sounds fine to me, I just didn't want to be paying tax on something if I didn't have to. Especially when it's
tax on $750
tax on $750
Last edited by Slack; 02-07-2003 at 09:16 PM.
02-07-2003, 09:06 PM
#25
Dork
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 144
Car Info: 2005 STi, 2005 OXT
Originally posted by christoph1371
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
Hahaha...
Chris, somehow, I feel like maybe, just maybe, that sounds so altruistic that I'm shocked and amazed that every single ECUtek vendor feels the same charitable way. Must be time to buy a lotto ticket - all the ECUtek vendors give a free street or dyno tune with the sale of a license... Next thing you know, money will start growing on trees.I'm just giving you crap for the fun of it. I don't mind paying taxes. I just think sometimes they're somewhat arbitrary. What's the "widget" involved in a ski rental? What good is created? Sales tax on the decreased value of the ski (good destroyed?) since when I rent demo skis sometimes I don't mind when there are patches of rocks sticking through the snow?
Joel
PS, you ever gonna get back to me?
02-09-2003, 10:03 PM
#27
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Originally posted by christoph1371
You will be hard pressed to find the flash for less than $750.
You will be hard pressed to find the flash for less than $750.
That's about USD$455 and that's not for some "shelf" flash but a custom tune.
This knowledge comes from a friend who lives in Canada and has had the tune done to his very own WRX.
jason
02-09-2003, 10:49 PM
#28
@Stoptech
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Originally posted by christoph1371
Once a license is used (sold to a customer, the ‘first flash’) that ECU/customer can go back to his perspective ECUtek dealer and get a re-flash without having to pay the initial license fee. What the customer does pay, for the second or third or fourth flash, is entirely up to the tuner.
The license IS a tangible product.
We do have a business (Licenses and all) and have to abide by certain laws. One of them is sales tax. When we sell a "widget" (not a consumable or service like labor) we must show the govt. that 1. We sold something. 2. We will happily give the govt. their fair share of our hard earned money…i.e TAX. So, unfortunately, yes there is tax on the $750 ECUtek flash.
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
Any additional flash thereafter is a labor charge (a tuning fee) and thus it is NOT taxed.
Did that clear anything up?
chris
Once a license is used (sold to a customer, the ‘first flash’) that ECU/customer can go back to his perspective ECUtek dealer and get a re-flash without having to pay the initial license fee. What the customer does pay, for the second or third or fourth flash, is entirely up to the tuner.
The license IS a tangible product.
We do have a business (Licenses and all) and have to abide by certain laws. One of them is sales tax. When we sell a "widget" (not a consumable or service like labor) we must show the govt. that 1. We sold something. 2. We will happily give the govt. their fair share of our hard earned money…i.e TAX. So, unfortunately, yes there is tax on the $750 ECUtek flash.
We provide a complementary service (street or dyno tune) with your first flash.
Any additional flash thereafter is a labor charge (a tuning fee) and thus it is NOT taxed.
Did that clear anything up?
chris
If ECUtek is claiming that what they are providing is a product rather than a service, then technically they are selling an actual license to the consumer, without which they could not legally have their ECU reflashed by ECUtek.
This still seems iffy because no tangible product has changed hands unless there is an actual paper certificate that is given to the consumer. The only reason I'm typing all of this iss because I want to know why a massage to my body, which is a service, cannot be taxed while a "massage" to my car, which is apparently a tangible product of some sort, can be taxed. Where does the government draw the line?
One last thought: This is basically ECUtek's way of charging for their product and recovering the costs of research and development. So, assuming this pricing structure is ECUteks plan, how much of the actual cost to the consumer does ECUtek see? Also, does the tuner pay a one time fee to purchase the reflashing equipment, or are they also expected to keep record of every ECU they reflash and pay per ECU? How is this enforced?
02-09-2003, 11:10 PM
#29
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Originally posted by Steppin Razor
Also, does the tuner pay a one time fee to purchase the reflashing equipment, or are they also expected to keep record of every ECU they reflash and pay per ECU? How is this enforced?
Also, does the tuner pay a one time fee to purchase the reflashing equipment, or are they also expected to keep record of every ECU they reflash and pay per ECU? How is this enforced?
Anyways, the license allows the tuner to flash the ECU that is licensed. Once the ECU is cracked via the license, then it is open to be tuned forever...I am sure that it burns a serial # into the eprom as well.
Bill, help me out here... I am drowning...
Anyways, ECUTEK is good stuff. I had my car done tonight, it rips, and still has to be massaged more, but dude...this thing is a rocket ship!
Andy
02-09-2003, 11:12 PM
#30
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Originally posted by mmboost
Yoshio does a custom tune of the stock ECU for $700 ... Canadian !!!
That's about USD$455 and that's not for some "shelf" flash but a custom tune.
This knowledge comes from a friend who lives in Canada and has had the tune done to his very own WRX.
jason
Yoshio does a custom tune of the stock ECU for $700 ... Canadian !!!
That's about USD$455 and that's not for some "shelf" flash but a custom tune.
This knowledge comes from a friend who lives in Canada and has had the tune done to his very own WRX.
jason