All this suspension talk.. Planning out DD '02 WRX changes.
04-03-2013, 03:28 PM
#49
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Location: East Bay / Pomona
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Car Info: '02 PSM WRX
FWIW, my konis have lasted 100k miles before one corner blowing. There's no sign of them being inserts effecting their performance.
Another option would be Tokico D-specs. Supposedly great shocks, with a limited lifetime warranty (normal wear and tear not covered, unlike Koni). They're not rebuildable either, so once they're done, you just gotta buy more.
Another option would be Tokico D-specs. Supposedly great shocks, with a limited lifetime warranty (normal wear and tear not covered, unlike Koni). They're not rebuildable either, so once they're done, you just gotta buy more.
04-03-2013, 03:31 PM
#50
FWIW, my konis have lasted 100k miles before one corner blowing. There's no sign of them being inserts effecting their performance.
Another option would be Tokico D-specs. Supposedly great shocks, with a limited lifetime warranty (normal wear and tear not covered, unlike Koni). They're not rebuildable either, so once they're done, you just gotta buy more.
Another option would be Tokico D-specs. Supposedly great shocks, with a limited lifetime warranty (normal wear and tear not covered, unlike Koni). They're not rebuildable either, so once they're done, you just gotta buy more.
04-03-2013, 03:37 PM
#51
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D_Rex koni extenders are available at TurnInConcepts: D_rex Koni strut exten The Konis have less travel on the fronts, so it's not needed on the rears, which I confirmed through the guys at TiC, but I'm sure there's no harm in doing both. If you're going to do the washer method, be careful on how far you extend, there is not a lot of additional tolerance if you extend too far, and I know you're not an 08+, but just to tell you how little additional clearance there is, the 08+ can't even run the spacers because it's interfering with their boots and ripping them.
I'd also look into TiC bushings, instead of Whiteline. The way they're made makes it easier to install, and are self lubricating (less overall maintenance on them). Don't get me wrong, I have Whiteline stuff on my car, I'm just a semi TiC fanboy, lol. TiC also has "stage" packages of suspension bushings and the like, so you might be able to save some money?
Everything on flukewrx's list looks great, except I still am not sold on strut tower bars. I still think they're more for looks than actual bracing. The only reason I have them on my car, is because a friend bought them for me for Christmas. If you want real strut tower bracing look at the X-brace: CarLabs Development X-Brace - Subaru GD Or the Cusco V-Brace (But I think it's less effective)
OK, done with the TiC fanboy crap.
If you're looking into replacing the pitch stop, I really like Ixiz concepts stuff. He hasn't been doing anything new, so I'm not sure if he's still around, but his website is still up, and you can still buy it.
Also, one thing to keep in mind, my ALK didn't allow for an H-Brace to be installed without some modification to the H-Brace and some quality washers to correct for spacing. In the end, it ended up breaking at one of the welds. It was an OEM Subaru part too, so I don't think it was poor welds.
Konis are the way to go. It's not THAT hard to install. I did it with only a hack saw, a measuring tape, some white out, and a drill. It would have been much easier if I had a vice or a sawzall, but it's definitely doable.
I'd also look into TiC bushings, instead of Whiteline. The way they're made makes it easier to install, and are self lubricating (less overall maintenance on them). Don't get me wrong, I have Whiteline stuff on my car, I'm just a semi TiC fanboy, lol. TiC also has "stage" packages of suspension bushings and the like, so you might be able to save some money?
Everything on flukewrx's list looks great, except I still am not sold on strut tower bars. I still think they're more for looks than actual bracing. The only reason I have them on my car, is because a friend bought them for me for Christmas. If you want real strut tower bracing look at the X-brace: CarLabs Development X-Brace - Subaru GD Or the Cusco V-Brace (But I think it's less effective)
OK, done with the TiC fanboy crap.
If you're looking into replacing the pitch stop, I really like Ixiz concepts stuff. He hasn't been doing anything new, so I'm not sure if he's still around, but his website is still up, and you can still buy it.
Also, one thing to keep in mind, my ALK didn't allow for an H-Brace to be installed without some modification to the H-Brace and some quality washers to correct for spacing. In the end, it ended up breaking at one of the welds. It was an OEM Subaru part too, so I don't think it was poor welds.
Konis are the way to go. It's not THAT hard to install. I did it with only a hack saw, a measuring tape, some white out, and a drill. It would have been much easier if I had a vice or a sawzall, but it's definitely doable.
I'm a huge fan of TiC as well, and will take a look at their bushings. I have a STi pitch stop, and will probably stay with that for now.
If I have to choose between a brace and the ALK, I am choosing the ALK. My mechanic can fab up or modify a brace, but the ALK is a necessity for me.
Not concerned about difficulty. I have a big garage and a compressor and my dad has a big garage with compressor/air tools (he's a retired mechanic), so I've done a lot of my own stuff over the years on all of my cars. I am more concerned about the setup itself and lasting. I know some on here have run them without issue. The other side of that is the alternative - the GR2s, which I have on the OBS. I actually really like them, but the aren't Konis 
Or even AGXs which I ran on my S13 with Eibach Prokits and was a very nice setup too.
Or even AGXs which I ran on my S13 with Eibach Prokits and was a very nice setup too.Exactly, they are more like a good quality stock replacement.
Again, I really appreciate all the feedback and conversation! I think I am going to stay close to my original list, but swap out the RCE's for the Swifts. I still need to figure out if I need to go with the '04+ tophats, but other than that I think it's pretty much figured out!
I still want a ride in flukewrx's or Concillian's car!!
04-03-2013, 03:46 PM
#52
aka FlukeWRX
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Bay
Posts: 3,657
Car Info: '03 WRX WRB Sedan
Yup, I can definitely take you for a ride at some point. If you can make it out to the Wednesday Night Meet tonight then I'll head over.
It looks like the strut extender question was already answered so you should be good to go on that one.
The Strut Tower Bars. Part of the reason for the ones I have is the front one is essentially an OEM Part (or at least OEM looking). If you pop my hood and look at the engine bay it looks stock and won't cause anyone to really dig too deeply. For the rear bar, while the X-Brace does add more strength and rigidity you also have to realize that it will eat up part of the useable trunk space. If you don't care about trunk space, then by all means. If you do care though, then just a standard rear tower bar is okay. I personally would have liked to have had it with the Whiteline Quick Release (like what is on the wagon bars) as that would help be able to make the almost utterly useless ski pass through a bit more useable, but I hardly ever put anything through there anyways so not much worry there.
While the tower bars do not make a noticeable difference at the begging of the suspension process they do still help. Some of the normal creaks that our cars make is alleviated with the use of the bars. They also help to prevent chassis flex at the top of the car (i.e. preventing flex of the front windshield and rear window). I do have rock chips in the front windshield, but they have not developed into cracks and that to me equates to either luck of the draw with how they chipped or more likely the window itself is not flexing allowing a crack to develop. That to me is worth it as the cost of replacement of the windshield would have cost at least as much as the strut tower bar. Is it a necessary mod, not in the beginning, but it does make a difference, just not nearly as noticeable as just about any other suspension mod on our cars.
For the Rear Mounts, I did consider the Whiteline HD Mounts, but in the end settled on the 04+ mounts as they are about 1/4 - 1/3 of the cost and I figured that I really didn't see many people breaking the 04+ mounts. They are fairly strong and do not flex like the flimsy Bugeye rear mounts do. If you go that route it could potentially save you money that you can use in other areas as well. If the mount really does break, it wouldn't be like you would have been out of much money from the get go. If it doesn't break you saved quite a bit of money so either way it seemed like the best option to me. Realize that I have a 24mm solid rear bar and have had 0 issues with those mounts. So unless you are considering an even larger rear bar or are going to be heavy track use then save the money from the HD Mounts and get the OEM 04+ mounts instead.
I believe I ended up getting my Swift's from TiC, but had them match the price to Speed Element as I was getting several of the components for my setup from them at the time I was ordering so they were willing to adjust prices as need be.
For Bushings lots of different ones available, some are easier to install, some are less maintenance. Pretty much select whatever works for you, but I definitely recommend upgrading them from the factory (mushy) rubber bushings.
The Whiteline Com C Tophats add a bit more Caster to your setup. It's helped in corners to retain your Camber by having the increased Caster.
With the above setup when I went in to do an Alignment at Auto Innovations I had them set my alignment to:
-1.8 Camber Front
0 Toe Front
-1.4 Camber Rear
0 Toe Rear
When I went back in to do the alignment the settings pretty much had not changed at all. It's not like I don't drive my car either as I probably put something close to 20K on my car a year.
I've pondered getting an ALK for a long time, but ultimately I don't think it is really necessary. If anything what I would do is get the STI Aluminum Control Arms (the Caster adding ones) first. Then I'd like to get the Oswald Performance Front Subframe (GD FRONT SUBFRAME). I understand that the H-Brace would be cheaper, but this essentially would bolt everything together as well as removing weight from the front subframe rather than adding additional weight using the factory Subframe as well as the H-Brace. I know that you can completely ditch the factory Subframe as well since the JDM cars don't run them at all, but to me I'd rather have the rigidity up front, but reduce the overall weight.
After that the only things left that I'd like to still do for the suspension would be the rear Lateral Links and Trailing Arms. I would probably get the MSI Trailing Arms and Lateral Links with the TiC Bushings installed. After that I really don't see much else I would need to do as that would essentially make my whole setup as complete as I would like it to be.
BTW - I think I missed putting the Whiteline Rear Diff Lock Bolts on the list above, I have those as well.
I do currently love my setup though and think it is a great daily driver while still being plenty capable. It is not a harsh setup at all.
Oh yeah, as for the 04+ mounts. Yes go with those then you don't have to worry about the spacers since you would be matching '04+ Springs to 04+ mounts to struts designed for 04+ cars so everything matches cleanly.
It looks like the strut extender question was already answered so you should be good to go on that one.
The Strut Tower Bars. Part of the reason for the ones I have is the front one is essentially an OEM Part (or at least OEM looking). If you pop my hood and look at the engine bay it looks stock and won't cause anyone to really dig too deeply. For the rear bar, while the X-Brace does add more strength and rigidity you also have to realize that it will eat up part of the useable trunk space. If you don't care about trunk space, then by all means. If you do care though, then just a standard rear tower bar is okay. I personally would have liked to have had it with the Whiteline Quick Release (like what is on the wagon bars) as that would help be able to make the almost utterly useless ski pass through a bit more useable, but I hardly ever put anything through there anyways so not much worry there.
While the tower bars do not make a noticeable difference at the begging of the suspension process they do still help. Some of the normal creaks that our cars make is alleviated with the use of the bars. They also help to prevent chassis flex at the top of the car (i.e. preventing flex of the front windshield and rear window). I do have rock chips in the front windshield, but they have not developed into cracks and that to me equates to either luck of the draw with how they chipped or more likely the window itself is not flexing allowing a crack to develop. That to me is worth it as the cost of replacement of the windshield would have cost at least as much as the strut tower bar. Is it a necessary mod, not in the beginning, but it does make a difference, just not nearly as noticeable as just about any other suspension mod on our cars.
For the Rear Mounts, I did consider the Whiteline HD Mounts, but in the end settled on the 04+ mounts as they are about 1/4 - 1/3 of the cost and I figured that I really didn't see many people breaking the 04+ mounts. They are fairly strong and do not flex like the flimsy Bugeye rear mounts do. If you go that route it could potentially save you money that you can use in other areas as well. If the mount really does break, it wouldn't be like you would have been out of much money from the get go. If it doesn't break you saved quite a bit of money so either way it seemed like the best option to me. Realize that I have a 24mm solid rear bar and have had 0 issues with those mounts. So unless you are considering an even larger rear bar or are going to be heavy track use then save the money from the HD Mounts and get the OEM 04+ mounts instead.
I believe I ended up getting my Swift's from TiC, but had them match the price to Speed Element as I was getting several of the components for my setup from them at the time I was ordering so they were willing to adjust prices as need be.
For Bushings lots of different ones available, some are easier to install, some are less maintenance. Pretty much select whatever works for you, but I definitely recommend upgrading them from the factory (mushy) rubber bushings.
The Whiteline Com C Tophats add a bit more Caster to your setup. It's helped in corners to retain your Camber by having the increased Caster.
With the above setup when I went in to do an Alignment at Auto Innovations I had them set my alignment to:
-1.8 Camber Front
0 Toe Front
-1.4 Camber Rear
0 Toe Rear
When I went back in to do the alignment the settings pretty much had not changed at all. It's not like I don't drive my car either as I probably put something close to 20K on my car a year.
I've pondered getting an ALK for a long time, but ultimately I don't think it is really necessary. If anything what I would do is get the STI Aluminum Control Arms (the Caster adding ones) first. Then I'd like to get the Oswald Performance Front Subframe (GD FRONT SUBFRAME). I understand that the H-Brace would be cheaper, but this essentially would bolt everything together as well as removing weight from the front subframe rather than adding additional weight using the factory Subframe as well as the H-Brace. I know that you can completely ditch the factory Subframe as well since the JDM cars don't run them at all, but to me I'd rather have the rigidity up front, but reduce the overall weight.
After that the only things left that I'd like to still do for the suspension would be the rear Lateral Links and Trailing Arms. I would probably get the MSI Trailing Arms and Lateral Links with the TiC Bushings installed. After that I really don't see much else I would need to do as that would essentially make my whole setup as complete as I would like it to be.
BTW - I think I missed putting the Whiteline Rear Diff Lock Bolts on the list above, I have those as well.
I do currently love my setup though and think it is a great daily driver while still being plenty capable. It is not a harsh setup at all.
Oh yeah, as for the 04+ mounts. Yes go with those then you don't have to worry about the spacers since you would be matching '04+ Springs to 04+ mounts to struts designed for 04+ cars so everything matches cleanly.
Last edited by JelloChex; 04-03-2013 at 03:49 PM.
04-03-2013, 04:26 PM
#54
I can take you for a ride too.
Tein Circuit Master Type-RA Coilovers
Whiteline Race ALK
STi Titanium Strut Bar
Cusco Carbon Fiber Rear Strut Bar
Cusco 22mm Adjustable Rear Sway Bar
Helix Endlinks
Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings
Rear Subframe Lock
Whiteline Rear Diff Lock-out bolts
Whiteline Rear Camber bolts
Front Subframe Delete
Tein Circuit Master Type-RA Coilovers
Whiteline Race ALK
STi Titanium Strut Bar
Cusco Carbon Fiber Rear Strut Bar
Cusco 22mm Adjustable Rear Sway Bar
Helix Endlinks
Whiteline Steering Rack Bushings
Rear Subframe Lock
Whiteline Rear Diff Lock-out bolts
Whiteline Rear Camber bolts
Front Subframe Delete
04-03-2013, 04:49 PM
#55
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iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 369
Car Info: 02 WRX sedan
It's down right now, but If you're in the Fremont / Hayward / Dublin triangle, just shoot a PM. It "should" be sans leaking tranny and slipping clutch sometime mid to late next week.
My car suspension is:
Koni w/D-rex extenders in the front / Group N front & rear (04+) / Swift Spec-R
TIC cowl braces
Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links (to dial out some of the rear negative camber so it can rotate)
Steering rack bushings
Trailing arm bushings (front and back)
rear diff & outrigger bushings
WL rear sway & HD mounts
comfort ALK
17x7.5 / 225/45/17 Z1
-1.2 front / -0.7 rear / 0 toe
and when it's done at Mert's it'll have a 4.444 final drive too. But a new clutch, so I still can't push the new EFR until the clutch is broken in. Still can get some good turns in and you can tell comfort level without WOT.
My car suspension is:
Koni w/D-rex extenders in the front / Group N front & rear (04+) / Swift Spec-R
TIC cowl braces
Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links (to dial out some of the rear negative camber so it can rotate)
Steering rack bushings
Trailing arm bushings (front and back)
rear diff & outrigger bushings
WL rear sway & HD mounts
comfort ALK
17x7.5 / 225/45/17 Z1
-1.2 front / -0.7 rear / 0 toe
and when it's done at Mert's it'll have a 4.444 final drive too. But a new clutch, so I still can't push the new EFR until the clutch is broken in. Still can get some good turns in and you can tell comfort level without WOT.
Last edited by Concillian; 04-03-2013 at 05:06 PM.
04-03-2013, 05:00 PM
#56
My car is pretty neutral on off/onramps and its hard for me to get the rear to lift...I just need better tires and a proper alignment and I could push it even harder..my drivers front tire has taken a beating trying to grip around the woodside-101n onramp and the holly off ramp haha
04-03-2013, 05:02 PM
#57
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iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 369
Car Info: 02 WRX sedan
The selection of 02-03 springs is abysmal... Like prodrive / eibach (low rates) or s-tech (too low, ridin' on bump stops). That's why people go with 04+ rear tophats. Every spring mentioned in this thread requires the 04+ top hat in the rear. Stock STi springs for comfort RCE black or swift for higher rate (and they aren't that bad for comfort with Konis.)
Last edited by Concillian; 04-03-2013 at 05:18 PM.
04-03-2013, 05:12 PM
#58
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Thread Starter
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Wow! Thanks for all the info. Just heading out now and I don't think I can make tonight's meet, but probably can next week. Just wanted to let you know so you don't head over special. Definitely want to check out your car though!
I'll check in and catch up a little later on. Thanks again for all the info, folks!!