VAT in the US?
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So who is going to decide what is non-essential? That is like playing financial God to me...To my female friends a $500 dress is essential, while I consider a gym membership to be a necessity for me. That's where things will break down, as I have already mentioned, when you apply the tax to only certain levels of society it is very hard not to avoid discriminating against someone and allowing for much easier avoidance of the tax. That is why with tax systems you need to have them system wide, which opens a new can of worms.
the Fed should be getting handouts from us, not the other way around
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here are the best routes i can find for RT. none of them get me to work on time, and most of them cost the same i would spend in gas to drive there myself.
option # | Lines | depart/arive |travel time|transfers| fare
Option 1 011, 507 6:08a -7:22a 74 1 $2.25
Option 2 011, 038, 507 6:08a-7:22a 74 2 $3.25
Option 3 011, 141, 507 6:08a-7:22a 74 2 $3.25
Option 4 013, 011, 507 5:42a-7:22a 99 2 $4.25
option # | Lines | depart/arive |travel time|transfers| fare
Option 1 011, 507 6:08a -7:22a 74 1 $2.25
Option 2 011, 038, 507 6:08a-7:22a 74 2 $3.25
Option 3 011, 141, 507 6:08a-7:22a 74 2 $3.25
Option 4 013, 011, 507 5:42a-7:22a 99 2 $4.25
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From: In Mother Russia...
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ill elaborate.
i drive to work. oil changes are an essential service, so dont tax it. having a pool installed at my house is a luxury, so tax it. buying an M6 is a luxury and should be taxed accordingly when a civic can get me to work just as well.
also with user based taxes you have the ability to do a certain amount of price control and mitigate the impact of short term rises in price. Imagine if 10 years ago we started ramping up the gas tax so that 2 years ago gas was already $4. as the price of oil increased the rate of tax could be decreased to maintain stability.
now, thats to to say im in favor of those sorts of market interference, i just like to use the gas example since its a touchy subject.
the point is there are much better ways to generate revenue than income taxes.
i drive to work. oil changes are an essential service, so dont tax it. having a pool installed at my house is a luxury, so tax it. buying an M6 is a luxury and should be taxed accordingly when a civic can get me to work just as well.
also with user based taxes you have the ability to do a certain amount of price control and mitigate the impact of short term rises in price. Imagine if 10 years ago we started ramping up the gas tax so that 2 years ago gas was already $4. as the price of oil increased the rate of tax could be decreased to maintain stability.
now, thats to to say im in favor of those sorts of market interference, i just like to use the gas example since its a touchy subject.
the point is there are much better ways to generate revenue than income taxes.
Do you see my whole point, how and who is to determine what is essential or not? As I mentioned before, logistics and implementation will be a nightmare, if not impossible. What is a point of having a benefit if the costs will outweigh it?
...and we see how awesome that is working out to be...every state is in huge deficit refusing to accept that it not their habits that need reform, but the balance of their bank accounts. Great. I actually went through the public aid and food stamp system, and do not get me started on how big of a convoluted, inefficient ineffective, bureaucratic of an EPIC FAIL it is.
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ill elaborate.
i drive to work. oil changes are an essential service, so dont tax it. having a pool installed at my house is a luxury, so tax it. buying an M6 is a luxury and should be taxed accordingly when a civic can get me to work just as well.
also with user based taxes you have the ability to do a certain amount of price control and mitigate the impact of short term rises in price. Imagine if 10 years ago we started ramping up the gas tax so that 2 years ago gas was already $4. as the price of oil increased the rate of tax could be decreased to maintain stability.
now, thats to to say im in favor of those sorts of market interference, i just like to use the gas example since its a touchy subject.
the point is there are much better ways to generate revenue than income taxes.
i drive to work. oil changes are an essential service, so dont tax it. having a pool installed at my house is a luxury, so tax it. buying an M6 is a luxury and should be taxed accordingly when a civic can get me to work just as well.
also with user based taxes you have the ability to do a certain amount of price control and mitigate the impact of short term rises in price. Imagine if 10 years ago we started ramping up the gas tax so that 2 years ago gas was already $4. as the price of oil increased the rate of tax could be decreased to maintain stability.
now, thats to to say im in favor of those sorts of market interference, i just like to use the gas example since its a touchy subject.
the point is there are much better ways to generate revenue than income taxes.
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From: In Mother Russia...
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also with user based taxes you have the ability to do a certain amount of price control and mitigate the impact of short term rises in price. Imagine if 10 years ago we started ramping up the gas tax so that 2 years ago gas was already $4. as the price of oil increased the rate of tax could be decreased to maintain stability.
Also, hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20...Imagine is all of us invested in Apple before its big turnaround? Imagining and discussing ideologies is not difficult..but actually implementing it objectively without bias and outside influence is. That is what always interests me the most. What are the pros/cons, cost/benefit, long term effects etc etc etc of any idea? Pretty much in all my conversation I always end up asking "Great idea, I actually never thought of that concept...but that's half the battle, how are you going to go about addressing the logistics/implementation/integration of it to the real world? Is it even feasibly or worth it" And guess what? Very few people can actually answer.
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..and i carpool. 
CA wouldn't have a deficit if we didn't pay $1 to the fed for every 79c we receive in fed programs.
masticate on that for a minute.
thus Californians pay more total taxes than the rest of the states, even though we provide much more to the Federal coffers. And we're broke. between 1981 and 2004 CA dropped off $489,114,000,000 into federal coffers and for that we received back 386,400,060,000 over the same period. an imbalance of over $100,000,000,000
what makes you think we have a free market now? what do you think the FDIC, SEC, Federal Reserve, and Treasury Department are for.
protectionism by any other name is still protectionism. its not about whether we have it or not, its about making suck just a little bit less and do it more efficiently.
...and we see how awesome that is working out to be...every state is in huge deficit refusing to accept that it not their habits that need reform, but the balance of their bank accounts. Great. I actually went through the public aid and food stamp system, and do not get me started on how big of a convoluted, inefficient ineffective, bureaucratic of an EPIC FAIL it is.
masticate on that for a minute.
thus Californians pay more total taxes than the rest of the states, even though we provide much more to the Federal coffers. And we're broke. between 1981 and 2004 CA dropped off $489,114,000,000 into federal coffers and for that we received back 386,400,060,000 over the same period. an imbalance of over $100,000,000,000
Isn't price control...oh...a little socialistic/communistic? And what if you predict the price wrong? What are the ramifications of that? It is impossible to predict market conditions and people's wants; if it was possible, we would stop having free markets long time ago because what would have been the point?
protectionism by any other name is still protectionism. its not about whether we have it or not, its about making suck just a little bit less and do it more efficiently.
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From: In Mother Russia...
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\CA wouldn't have a deficit if we didn't pay $1 to the fed for every 79c we receive in fed programs.
masticate on that for a minute.
thus Californians pay more total taxes than the rest of the states, even though we provide much more to the Federal coffers. And we're broke. between 1981 and 2004 CA dropped off $489,114,000,000 into federal coffers and for that we received back 386,400,060,000 over the same period. an imbalance of over $100,000,000,000
masticate on that for a minute.
thus Californians pay more total taxes than the rest of the states, even though we provide much more to the Federal coffers. And we're broke. between 1981 and 2004 CA dropped off $489,114,000,000 into federal coffers and for that we received back 386,400,060,000 over the same period. an imbalance of over $100,000,000,000
Also, what is the source of your numbers? I am interested in reading up and learning more about that,
what makes you think we have a free market now? what do you think the FDIC, SEC, Federal Reserve, and Treasury Department are for.
protectionism by any other name is still protectionism. its not about whether we have it or not, its about making suck just a little bit less and do it more efficiently.
protectionism by any other name is still protectionism. its not about whether we have it or not, its about making suck just a little bit less and do it more efficiently.
And again, you have not answered one of my previous questions...You have been throwing out a lot of different individual ideas..Great...Now, how are you going to go about addressing the logistics/implementation/integration of it to the real world? Are they compatible together? And is it even feasibly or worth it? Otherwise, we will be here until the end of the world brainstorming about all the various options this world has to offer. This conversation will never end and neither of us will ever be right or wrong.
Last edited by LxJLthr; Dec 4, 2008 at 02:02 PM.
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