so to win you must become as your enemy is... that is what you are proposing in no uncertain terms...

I disagree with you greatly on that point as well

If we were INTELLIGENT, CREATIVE, and RESOLUTE in our actions we would be able to retain most if not all of the civil rights that have been eroded thus far.

That is a bull**** excuse if i ever heard one.

 

The only real civil rights I was implying people give up is the occasional search at the airport. I hate hearing people ***** about that. Naturally we'll give up some rights in the given circumstances unless of course we grow fond of terrorist attacks.

And you're right, we have retained "most" of our civil rights. Other than not being able to idle in the incoming flights lane and random searches at the airport my life hasn't changed too much.

 

um maybe you should look into what rights we have lost since 9/11 think patriot act mainly...

 

Yeah, but I'm an ignorant bastard and I haven't noticed so I don't mind. Seriously, it's not affecting me so I could care less. Call me a lesser being for that if you want but it really doesn't bother me.

 

you said it not I...

more info on patriot act

http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla...t_analysis.php

http://www.aclu.org/Files/OpenFile.cfm?id=13098

http://slate.msn.com/id/2087984/

http://www.cdt.org/security/usapatriot/analysis.shtml

http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/

and i could go on and on and on...

 

and the only reason i can see that it doesnt bother you is because you havent bothered to look into it in any detail.

Read the patriot act and then read the constitution... Tell me you think they are complementary documents.

 

And being totally honest with you I haven't read into it. I fly about once, maybe twice a month. Those are the only times I see a difference so I don't see the point in blowing something out of proportion that doesn't affect me. You might be calling that an ignorant standpoint and I can see where you're coming from. Have you been personally affected by any of these changes?

 

this aint about flying... this is about "unlawful" searchs, roaming wire taps, "sneak and peeks" basicly the goverment breaking into your house looking at your ish, bugging stuff and then leaving with out a trace or notice of their activities. And the list can go on and on and on.. this isnt about flying this is about laying the foundations of "big brother"

 

Listen, I'm not saying I want an Orwellian society in America with people worrying about being watched by a guy on the other side of their plasma T.V.. Is it O.K. that we made this "Patriot Act"? Part of me says, no, it's not. The other side of me says, I've got nothing to hide so what should I care. I don't do anything illegal in my house so why should I worry. If it progresses or evolves into something more than a way of spotting terrorism before it happens then I'll care but until then I'll let it go.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...102301352.html

http://www.epic.org/foia_notes/note9.html

THE DISCLOSURE
Documents obtained by EPIC from the FBI describe thirteen cases of possible misconduct in intelligence investigations. The case numbering suggests that there were at least 153 investigations of misconduct at the FBI in 2003 alone.

THE ISSUE
Oversight of the FBI's intelligence activities since passage of the
Patriot Act.

THE BACKGROUND
The FBI is the leading law enforcement agency in the United States. However, since passage of the Patriot Act, the Bureau has become more involved in secretive intelligence investigations. Concerns have been raised about whether there is adequate oversight of the FBI's new authority. EPIC recently sent a letter to the Senate Judiciary Committee regarding possible misconduct in intelligence investigations.

THE SIGNIFICANCE
These documents obtained by EPIC suggest that Congress may be unaware of unlawful intelligence investigations in the United States.

 

tip of the ice berg...

 

...the last dozen or so posts are totally mute, in my opinion, because discussing the war on terror has little or nothing to do with Iraq. Yes, they have insurgents who may be part of terrorist organizations...but that's because we destabilized Iraq so bad that they all flock there to go to war against the US. Saying that the 'biggest threat to our existance' started in the 70's or whenever is basically a great way to trick people into thinking you have justification for any war you want, anywhere in the world. It's assinine and I'm tired of that crap. We f***ed up by going to Iraq...that's the truth and we all know it on some level. Stop trying to make yourselfs feel better by saying "...well at least we are fighting terror..." because, if anything, we insighted much more terror than we prevented. You all know it, get your cronified lips off the ex coke head's *****.

 

yeah, we're fighting terror all right, a lot like fighting a fire with gasoline.

 

Christ, you know there's really nothing wrong with the Patriot Act. In fact, I bet a lot of people have hardly been effected by it (if at all) that continuously complain about it. The liberals blow it way too far out of wack. So you're inconvenienced for the sake of national security? It's just a way to adapt to the times.

I've had to used numerous Patriot Act forms in my business and it's really a small inconvenienced every borrower has agreed to without question or real hassle.

 

posted the info.. like i said tip of the iceberg...

and your end of things is only a very very very very very very small portion of the patriot act