So the war for the hearts and minds of iraqis....
10-23-2005, 03:09 PM
#1
VIP Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Least Coast :(
Posts: 8,159
Car Info: 08 sti
So the war for the hearts and minds of iraqis....
looks like we blow that that one as well..
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2134202005
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2134202005
1:32pm (UK)
Iraq poll calls for troops pull-out
Tony Blair is facing fresh calls for an Iraq exit strategy as a leaked Ministry of Defence poll showed widespread support for attacks on British troops.
Up to 65% of Iraqis questioned said the attacks were justified in the survey commissioned by senior officers and published in the Sunday Telegraph.
Fewer than one in 100 thought that the presence of coalition troops was improving security in the country.
Sir Menzies Campbell, Liberal Democrat Foreign Affairs spokesman, said: "If these results truly represent public opinion in Iraq then they are profoundly disturbing.
"They underline the magnitude of the task being faced by British forces, and the extent of the risks which they undergo daily.
"Such findings are yet another argument in favour of a comprehensive exit strategy."
The findings come as the Sunday Telegraph revealed that Lt Col Nick Henderson, commanding officer of the Coldstream Guards in Basra who is in charge of security in the region, has resigned. He recently voiced concerns over a lack of armoured vehicles for his men, one of whom was killed in a bomb attack in Basra last week, the paper reports.
The poll showed that 45% of Iraqis believe such attacks against British and US troops are justified, rising to 65% in the UK-controlled Maysan province.
An overwhelming 82% are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops. And less than 1% believe the forces have brought about any improvement in security. In fact, 67% say they are less safe because of the occupation.
The Ministry of Defence said polling is carried out continuously and August, when this survey was conducted, was a "particularly bad month in terms of the results".
© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2005, All Rights Reserved.
Iraq poll calls for troops pull-out
Tony Blair is facing fresh calls for an Iraq exit strategy as a leaked Ministry of Defence poll showed widespread support for attacks on British troops.
Up to 65% of Iraqis questioned said the attacks were justified in the survey commissioned by senior officers and published in the Sunday Telegraph.
Fewer than one in 100 thought that the presence of coalition troops was improving security in the country.
Sir Menzies Campbell, Liberal Democrat Foreign Affairs spokesman, said: "If these results truly represent public opinion in Iraq then they are profoundly disturbing.
"They underline the magnitude of the task being faced by British forces, and the extent of the risks which they undergo daily.
"Such findings are yet another argument in favour of a comprehensive exit strategy."
The findings come as the Sunday Telegraph revealed that Lt Col Nick Henderson, commanding officer of the Coldstream Guards in Basra who is in charge of security in the region, has resigned. He recently voiced concerns over a lack of armoured vehicles for his men, one of whom was killed in a bomb attack in Basra last week, the paper reports.
The poll showed that 45% of Iraqis believe such attacks against British and US troops are justified, rising to 65% in the UK-controlled Maysan province.
An overwhelming 82% are "strongly opposed" to the presence of coalition troops. And less than 1% believe the forces have brought about any improvement in security. In fact, 67% say they are less safe because of the occupation.
The Ministry of Defence said polling is carried out continuously and August, when this survey was conducted, was a "particularly bad month in terms of the results".
© Copyright Press Association Ltd 2005, All Rights Reserved.
10-23-2005, 11:09 PM
#3
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
When have Iraqis enjoyed or even remotely wanted our presence after we crippled Saddam’s regime? There's no denying that 80% of Iraqis once praised the very ground we walked on because we were working in their best, immediate interests with no set timeframe. It was like getting job on some masonry work for a small house that was supposed to take a week only to have it snow everyday so the mortar couldn't set-up properly over two full years. Sure, you're happy with the idea of getting the brick work done on your house in the initial stages but all bets are off when you see the contruction workers scratching themselves a year later. We were nothing more than a one night stand to Iraqis.
Now all the Iraqi's have grown impatient and I'm with them as well. Not because I feel it's what's best for the mission in the long run, but because I could give a damn for them anymore. All they do is complain and **** **** up more and more. The insurgents and radicals aren’t even smart enough to play possum for a prolonged period of time only to create havoc once we pop smoke. Honestly, how hard is that? A third grade student could come to realize that but grown men cannot? I think that says something about Iraqis' capacity. I'm all for pulling out our troops asap. I have been for sometime now. If they turn back to into the sand monkey way of life that can't even run a civilized society, then I say leave them to the dogs. ****'em.
It’s gotten to the point that even though I firmly believe in my political stance as a moderate conservative, I want to vote for a Democrat more and more for their inability to push an aggresive foreign policy and less-likely chance of caring for douche-bags and situations that call for war.
Now all the Iraqi's have grown impatient and I'm with them as well. Not because I feel it's what's best for the mission in the long run, but because I could give a damn for them anymore. All they do is complain and **** **** up more and more. The insurgents and radicals aren’t even smart enough to play possum for a prolonged period of time only to create havoc once we pop smoke. Honestly, how hard is that? A third grade student could come to realize that but grown men cannot? I think that says something about Iraqis' capacity. I'm all for pulling out our troops asap. I have been for sometime now. If they turn back to into the sand monkey way of life that can't even run a civilized society, then I say leave them to the dogs. ****'em.
It’s gotten to the point that even though I firmly believe in my political stance as a moderate conservative, I want to vote for a Democrat more and more for their inability to push an aggresive foreign policy and less-likely chance of caring for douche-bags and situations that call for war.
Last edited by Salty; 10-23-2005 at 11:23 PM.
10-24-2005, 03:40 AM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
If they turn back to into the sand monkey way of life that can't even run a civilized society, then I say leave them to the dogs. ****'em.
10-24-2005, 03:46 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
When have Iraqis enjoyed or even remotely wanted our presence after we crippled Saddam’s regime? There's no denying that 80% of Iraqis once praised the very ground we walked on because we were working in their best, immediate interests with no set timeframe. It was like getting job on some masonry work for a small house that was supposed to take a week only to have it snow everyday so the mortar couldn't set-up properly over two full years. Sure, you're happy with the idea of getting the brick work done on your house in the initial stages but all bets are off when you see the contruction workers scratching themselves a year later. We were nothing more than a one night stand to Iraqis.
Now all the Iraqi's have grown impatient and I'm with them as well. Not because I feel it's what's best for the mission in the long run, but because I could give a damn for them anymore. All they do is complain and **** **** up more and more.
.
Now all the Iraqi's have grown impatient and I'm with them as well. Not because I feel it's what's best for the mission in the long run, but because I could give a damn for them anymore. All they do is complain and **** **** up more and more.
.
We bombed their country (on false pretenses) and deposed their leader.
Women now have less civil rights and a poorer standard of living since the war.
Infrastructure (electricity, water, etc) has not been repaired and replaced.
The "democracy" we installed left them with is a frank theocracy.
Of course they want us gone.
Poll from 4/2004 debunking your claim
Last edited by lojasmo; 10-24-2005 at 03:54 AM.
10-24-2005, 09:53 AM
#6
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by lojasmo
We bombed their country (on false pretenses) and deposed their leader.
Originally Posted by lojasmo
Poll from 4/2004 debunking your claim[/url]
10-24-2005, 09:56 AM
#7
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by lojasmo
Is this stuff truly allowed here?
It's a reference to the ignorant way of life a staggering amount of them lead. Put it this way... if Iraq suddenly became Cambridge, Mass or Oxford, England do you think citizens and religious leaders would encourage the complete boycotting of crucial elections and the bullying of citizens that think differently with TNT? I don't think so...
Last edited by Salty; 10-24-2005 at 10:03 AM.
10-24-2005, 10:29 AM
#8
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
You have to be joking. Yes, we disposed of their leader that happened to be giving 80% of the population the extreme shaft since he took power. Why does everyone forget how the staggering non-Sunni majority in Iraq befriended every soldier like a brother in the initial stages? Even every former Iraqi citizen living in US soil thought it was the next best idea since sliced bread given the fact they know how bad Saddam made it for their people. This huge majority praised the very ground the troops walked on. Especially on April 17, 2003.
Originally Posted by salty
Haha nice try. Unfortunately a poll from April 2004 proves my point, not yours. We were already in Iraq for slightly over a year at this point and the insurgency was strong.
In fact, the Iraqis have always been opposed to our occupation of Iraq, contrary to your claim.
The insurgency was strong a week after we attacked. We failed to secure their millitia and arms.
Just another example of how poorly this debacle was planned and executed.
10-24-2005, 10:30 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
It's not a racial comment whatsoever. So yes, it can be said....
It's a reference to the ignorant way of life a staggering amount of them lead. Put it this way... if Iraq suddenly became Cambridge, Mass or Oxford, England do you think citizens and religious leaders would encourage the complete boycotting of crucial elections and the bullying of citizens that think differently with TNT? I don't think so...
It's a reference to the ignorant way of life a staggering amount of them lead. Put it this way... if Iraq suddenly became Cambridge, Mass or Oxford, England do you think citizens and religious leaders would encourage the complete boycotting of crucial elections and the bullying of citizens that think differently with TNT? I don't think so...
10-24-2005, 11:04 AM
#10
VIP Member
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Wherever Sucks the Most
Posts: 8,675
Car Info: 2003 WRX, 2008 Camry
Originally Posted by lojasmo
How about NOLA? Were they engaging in "sand monkey" type behavior? If so, then what makes them different than people in camebridge or oxford?
The answer is nothing because the citizens of NOLA were acting out of desperation and severe mental stress. There’s footage of grown woman sucking her thumb and twirling her hair as a bloated body sits no more than a yard away. This is not the case in Iraq, buddy. The Association of Muslim Scholars made the decision to boycott the election over coffee and a party tray for Christ sake.
Last edited by Salty; 10-24-2005 at 11:16 AM.
10-24-2005, 12:31 PM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I gotta have more cow bell!!!!
Posts: 9,198
Car Info: 05 STi
Originally Posted by lojasmo
The insurgency was strong a week after we attacked. We failed to secure their millitia and arms.
Just another example of how poorly this debacle was planned and executed.
Just another example of how poorly this debacle was planned and executed.
Secondly, I don't believe you can possibly fathom the quantity of post-Soviet era weapons still left in the world. I would be willing to bet that there are enough AK series weapons to arm every man, women and child in the world given the oppurtunity. Was America expected to keep every weapon out of the hands of potential enemy? That is impossible, like it or not.
10-24-2005, 12:41 PM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by 1reguL8NSTi
This is a retarded claim at best. To say we didn't secure their militia and arms is absolute ignorance.
10-24-2005, 12:43 PM
#13
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
The Association of Muslim Scholars made the decision to boycott the election over coffee and a party tray for Christ sake.
10-24-2005, 12:44 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Being stalked by Salty
Posts: 691
Car Info: Looking for a Liberty CRD
Originally Posted by Salty
It's not a racial comment whatsoever. So yes, it can be said.....
"sand monkey" is frankly racist verbage. You should redact it. This thread should be locked.
10-24-2005, 12:49 PM
#15
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: I gotta have more cow bell!!!!
Posts: 9,198
Car Info: 05 STi
Originally Posted by lojasmo
The DOD made and anounced the decision to let every person in Iraq keep one automatic or semiautomatic weapon.
If it were up to me I'd pull all conventional troops from Iraq within the next 6 months no questions asked. Upon leaving I would leave stay behind cells of spec. ops teams and their support. This would force their military to step it up in the likes of security. The spec. ops teams would do nothing but hit hard target terrorists points (i.e. 100% guarantees of activity)day and night . I would have air support overhead at all times and tons of aerial surrviellance. Anything those teams need I'd give it to them. As far as material support; if the Iraqis want it then can fly to a friendly nation and get or accept it at their ports. We'll get them back on their feet but not with Private Joe Schmo in convey waiting to get IEDed back state side.