Salty

iTrader: (14)

That said, here's this thread for ya esracer: https://www.i-club.com/forums/teh-politics-forum-114/uk-muslims-head-baghdad-plea-hostage-rant-included-74012/

BlingBlingBlue

First of all, I don't think anyone would say that the insurgents in Iraq are "freedom fighters". Bush called the Chechnyan separitists "freedom fighters" at one point, perhaps that is where your confusion lies. From what I've read, these criminals are largely foreigners who hate the US and are coming in through the insecure Iraqi borders, and SilverScoober02 is correct in stating that these people were not coming into Iraq as they did before the US led invasion.


One of the leading causes of death in Iraq since 1990 has been dysentery, due to the fact that the water treatment facilities the UN led coalition destroyed in 1991 were never allowed to be rebuilt, for fear they could double as a chemical weapon facility. Further, I think the fact that Saddam was willing to rule with an iron fist is part of the reason you didn't have much in the way of car bombs blowing up civilians - isn't this sort of drastic treatment what many of the war hawks on this forum are calling for? There have been a few threads suggesting Russia is going to kick some ***, and not be held back by "Political Correctness", haven't there?

I'm not saying Saddam Hussein was a good guy, I'm just trying to bring some degree of honesty and rationality to the discussion. Flame away.

-Motivator

Salty

iTrader: (14)

The title of the thread is a mockery so i'm sorry you didn't pick-up on that.

The problem with the water containing cholera, dysentery, typhoid and diarrhoea bacteria has been a problem in Iraq beyond our occupation. Everything else you mention is old news -or- the very essence of the current insurgency problem in Iraq.

LOL... Your car bomb assumption in relation to Saddam's ruling with an iron fist has already been discredited by yourself for the most part.

You already suggested that insurgents are "largely foreigners who hate the US and are coming in through the insecure Iraqi borders"

The smaller percentage of these insurgent cells are Iraqis from the former Baath party -or- those that had something to gain under Saddam's rule.

SilverScoober02

I see your point, but it was much much more secure under saddam than it is now.(not to say it won't be more secure when we are done, but right now it is not)

I used to work for a few Iraqi-Americans at a Pizza/Party Store, they all fled right before the 1st War with Iraq and immigrated here. They all still have family and friends over here and when we first went to war they could not have been happier.

These guys were so happy because Saddam was indeed a horrible and oppressive dictator. Their happiness has since faded though and turned into resentment over what is going on over there. They have since lost a cousin to a random car bomb in Baghdad and their relative say the people there live in constant fear of these attacks. More now than ever from Saddam. Now that is not to say that they wish Saddam was back in power because they don't but they think it could all have been done better now that the haze from the intial winning of the war and the capture of Saddam is over. They are also upset at how Bush always has this rosy outlook on the situation when all their relatives tell them is bad.

esracer

iTrader: (3)

I see your point bro, as I said in my post that it's hard not to be judging or whatever, can't spell the word, and yes it is bad if they are not condeming the cause, it is very bad, and yes i see that if they don't condem they support, but i was just saying we need to be carefull hear on our American soil, the biggest melting pot of cultures and try to (key word try to) not create anymore rifts we have here between cultures and such, i'm just saying be careful with making statements like it's all of islam or whatever, cause we as America need to unite all cultures against terrorism and also the world, we make rifts and it's alittle harder, i guess what I'm saying my opinion is to use your statement lightly, cause they're good Muslims out there, but don't judge all of them in the wrong way.......

I guess my example would be.....(I know it's kinda of two different worlds but it's similar) Teenagers....adults sometimes always judge Teenagers to be troublemakers and this and that and make an overall Judgement that they don't know anything or whatever, does this mean all Teenagers are horrible.....no....I mean there's judging there, and it's not right.....

for example....Traffic wreck between a new driver and a adult driver....if it's not a wreck that's totally understandable, who will the cop believe more the adult or the kid, it most cases the Adult, just because there is a judgement that all teen drivers suck and this and that, it's all judging and we just need to be careful with it.

esracer

iTrader: (3)

I totally agree about this, I made a post a few days ago that we need to see how the citizens of that country feel, what's they're opinion, what I have seen is that Iraq is happy that Saddam is gone, now some may not, but those people were the lucky ones who sucked up to him or whatever, the country is happy he is gone, it's just the stupid people who are ruining their freedom and stuff, this goes to Vietnam too, my g/f is vietnamese, ask her dad what he thinks about us going to Vietnam, He says he is very thankful cause he would most likely be dead a long time ago and that his way of life would have been ruined, They had a big farm making good money, well educated the family was, the would of lost all that, maybe even their lives to be made to live a way they didn't want to live, they're thankful and this is not the only vietnamese reference I heard, we need to see what the people think before we as Americans choose what Iraq thinks, Vietnam thinks, and hell a island in the middle of the ocean, now we know that life sucked for Iraq, we had proof thats why we liberated them, we know how England is, they're fine so we don't liberate, we know life sucks around the world so we send many troops around the world to help people out, we send money food and all that because we know they're in need, so we help. Iraq was in need of liberation so we helped, Iraqies mostly happy, or just happier now than they were, I say that's a mission accomplished.

And back to the post Walk like a Duck, Quack like a Duck or whatever, that is a very good point........

Like here if we don't take action we support, sooo if we just left Iraq alone we support all the torture and wrong doings there.....i'll leave it at that

BlingBlingBlue

To be honest, it is hard for me to tell when pro Iraq war folks are being serious, because some of the time they make straight faced arguments which seem completely ludicrous. Good to know that you were using sarcasm, and weren't being serious.



I'll give you that. I used circular logic and didn't think that statement through all the way. However, I think it is noteworthy that some of the fiercest resistance is coming from Sunni areas. If you recall, Saddam favored the Shiites and oppressed the Sunni's. They have not forgotten that it was the US who facilitated Saddam's rise to power - perhaps they fear we will put another Shiite in power? I don't know, just typing as I'm thinking. I'll stand by my point that Saddam used tactics against those he didn't like which are similar to some tactics being called for by some of the more violent/emotional types on this board. I also think it underlines the point that this administration did a poor job planning for this war.