Alright, maybe this'll get us on the same plane.

I'd easily agree with you that service in the military doesn't suddenly make someone honorable, therefore automatically 'know' what honor is.

Nor does the military, by any means, have the market cornered with regards to military personnel being the only ones who can know what honor is.

First person that comes to mind for me, easy. The Reverend Martin Luther King. Mahatma Ghandi.

Also, you don't have to ascribe to be MLK nor Ghandi in order to live honorably and know what honor is. The gentleman who came to my house this morning to meet my dogs so he could dog sit for me this weekend. He and his wife (who's volunteered full time at the Humane society for the past 37 years) could very likely be into that baby/diaper fetish thing, but they have completely devoted their lives to the care and welfare of animals. In my book, that's pretty honorable. They most likely won't go down in the "Honor Hall of Fame", and I'd doubt they'd consider themselves honorable, but it's a selfless act.

Now, to back track a bit, I do think that earnest military service IS very honorable. In the job I'm currently in, I don't really rub elbows with many who'd fit that bill, but my background is rife with dudes who just make me feel small by how easy it is for them to completely sacrifice themselves. I'd venture that there are many who frequent this forum who'd probably dimish those soldiers' honor because they feel that those soldiers are deluded and misguided. Maybe so, but those soldiers are all aligned according to a common set of values; misguided or not, their zealousness, to me, is the very definition of honor.

 

never once did i say honorable service isnt honorable.. in fact i think depending on the motives and intentions for enlisting military service is a very honorable thing to do, esp when someone (like pat tilman) could easily serve themselves better by not joining.

Anyways i couldnt agree with you more on what you have said...

 

I can't because they don't, and I'd bet that Paul isn't fondly recalling his memory of his comrades doing that.

However, though that sort of thing may seems indefensible, you've got to put it into context. A young, 19y/o soldier doesn't ascribe to ethics and the Law of the Land Warfare on a daily basis. Speaking from personal experience, when I was 19 I was NOT a professional soldier. As a matter of fact, I was a terrible soldier.

All I knew when I was a part of the invasion of Panama was that grave things could happen to my friends (guys that I'd never realized how strongly I felt about them...moreso than even family in a manner of speaking.) And that grave and horrendous things could have happened to me. I had no respect for the enemy. The only reason I never did anything to the prisoners we had in custody was due to the fact that I didn't want to get into trouble...and two of the prisoners we had had been caught in the act of raping a 13y/o little girl. At that point in my life, I could have easily gutted those two guys while looking them in the eye. I still could if I knew I could get away with it.

In my case, being a dumb kid is no defense; I'm not saying it is. However, you must first seek to understand in order to be able to pound the gavel.

 

not passing judgement just making a statement was all i was doing...

Basicly calling someone out. If they did act in a dishonorable way so be it. what is done is done, but to pawn it off as an act of humour or wallow in it as if it was a badge of honor is only disrespecting those who do have honor and do the right things in the most incredible and difficult of circumstance.

 

Roger that. And to add to that, there have been many honorable people who've made mistakes in the past.

 

absolutely agree with that.. My only issue is what what i quoted both the content and the delivery...

 

You're so helpful.

 

Thanks I try.

Dre, I didn't really mean to come off like that... it's just that your post suggested you're an authority on the military. I wouldn’t have attacked your post had it been in the form of a question to those of us that have served. There’s a large percentage of service members willing to sacrifice everything in the military, even if it’s for a cause they do not agree with.

 

haha dude come on man you know me, i am anything but an expert or authority. And never will i claim to be either on any topic, no matter how good i am at it or how well i know it.

and its all gravy man