Interesting stats from Iraq
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Interesting stats from Iraq
According to the September 1 Manufacturing & Technology News, the Government Accounting Office has reported that over the course of the cakewalk war, the US military's use of small caliber ammunition has risen to 1.8 billion rounds. Think about that number. If there are 20,000 insurgents, it means US troops have fired 90,000 rounds at each insurgent.
Very few have been hit. We don't know how many. To avoid the analogy with Vietnam, until last week the US military studiously avoided body counts. If 2,000 insurgents have been killed, each death required 900,000 rounds of ammunition.
Very few have been hit. We don't know how many. To avoid the analogy with Vietnam, until last week the US military studiously avoided body counts. If 2,000 insurgents have been killed, each death required 900,000 rounds of ammunition.
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There's countless ranges. And yes, cover fire is HUGE.
For example, you can go through thousands of 7.62 ball with a few guns on a support by fire position at a given rate of fire (usually sustained in timed intervals). They shoot on the objective an may manage to kill the enemy with one of a hundred rounds per square meter. Regardless, they must keep shooting in order to keep the enemies head down as the flanking team moves into position. Once the flanking team it present they advance toward the objective to clear it with 556mm fire. As they advance forward a “shift-fire” is called (at night using a flare by the flanking team or with NODs/IR). With that command, the support by fire team dramatically shifts their round placement to the extreme opposite end of flanking team at the edge of the objective. Rounds are still being shot in order to keep the enemies head down as the flanking team advances - they very well may be shooting at the dirt during this time. Once the flanking team has advanced a “lift-fire” is called (aka cease fire). At this point the flanking team should have cleared the area and rid/detained any bad guys at the LOA (limit of advance).
With that given scenario you may have gone through 2000+++ rounds just to eliminate a couple dug-in enemies. And if the objective is much bigger then the amount of rounds is X10 or more. And don't think they are careless with their shot placement. Support by fire is consistent at a meter circle and riflemen are expert out to 300M+++ with a carbine. It is 110% necessary to utilize that many rounds and there's a hundred other situations that require numerous rounds as well. Rounds are cheap compared to soldier’s lives. Not to mention rounds and are extremely plentiful as well… I'm sure a lot of those expended rounds came from surpluses older than me.
That sure is a lot of bullets though. I wonder how much power that is?
For example, you can go through thousands of 7.62 ball with a few guns on a support by fire position at a given rate of fire (usually sustained in timed intervals). They shoot on the objective an may manage to kill the enemy with one of a hundred rounds per square meter. Regardless, they must keep shooting in order to keep the enemies head down as the flanking team moves into position. Once the flanking team it present they advance toward the objective to clear it with 556mm fire. As they advance forward a “shift-fire” is called (at night using a flare by the flanking team or with NODs/IR). With that command, the support by fire team dramatically shifts their round placement to the extreme opposite end of flanking team at the edge of the objective. Rounds are still being shot in order to keep the enemies head down as the flanking team advances - they very well may be shooting at the dirt during this time. Once the flanking team has advanced a “lift-fire” is called (aka cease fire). At this point the flanking team should have cleared the area and rid/detained any bad guys at the LOA (limit of advance).
With that given scenario you may have gone through 2000+++ rounds just to eliminate a couple dug-in enemies. And if the objective is much bigger then the amount of rounds is X10 or more. And don't think they are careless with their shot placement. Support by fire is consistent at a meter circle and riflemen are expert out to 300M+++ with a carbine. It is 110% necessary to utilize that many rounds and there's a hundred other situations that require numerous rounds as well. Rounds are cheap compared to soldier’s lives. Not to mention rounds and are extremely plentiful as well… I'm sure a lot of those expended rounds came from surpluses older than me.
That sure is a lot of bullets though. I wonder how much power that is?
Last edited by Salty; Sep 20, 2005 at 01:56 PM.
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Actually, if you factor in all the women, children, goats, dogs, cats, and camels it's only 7 rounds per dead person. 
And no ****, Salty, about the amount of ammo expended.
I worked in ammo section for a year & delivered countless 100 of thousands of 5.56 rounds
I also instructed ROTC cadets on movment to contact with blank & live rounds.
On one training lane, we expended 11,000 rounds of SAW ammo per day!
1lb of powder = 7000 grains.
1gr = 178 ft-lbs.
1 5.56 round =~27grains
Soooo, do the math: 27grains/rd X 178ft-lbs/gr X 1.8E9 rounds =______ ft-lbs.
And no ****, Salty, about the amount of ammo expended.
I worked in ammo section for a year & delivered countless 100 of thousands of 5.56 rounds
I also instructed ROTC cadets on movment to contact with blank & live rounds.
On one training lane, we expended 11,000 rounds of SAW ammo per day!
Originally Posted by Salty
I wonder how much power that is...
1gr = 178 ft-lbs.
1 5.56 round =~27grains
Soooo, do the math: 27grains/rd X 178ft-lbs/gr X 1.8E9 rounds =______ ft-lbs.
Last edited by FW Motorsports; Sep 20, 2005 at 09:31 PM.
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Originally Posted by VIBEELEVEN
Ok, would you rather have dead troops or spent rounds? Either way a statistic will be found to exploit it.
How about focusing our defense policy on actually defending our nation from real, not imaginary or fictitious threats? maybe we could get by having neither...
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Originally Posted by jvick125
Spent rounds for sure. Those can EASILY be replaced. I wonder how quickly bullets can be produced. I would bet close to 100k+/day.
Originally Posted by article
The United States is planning to buy hundreds of millions of bullets from Taiwan in the first such deal as its supplies are running low after wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, a report said Thursday.
Citing Taiwanese military sources, the United Evening News said Washington had made the request to acquire some 300 million 5.56-millimeter bullets for rifles for an estimated two billion Taiwan dollars (62.5 million US).
Citing Taiwanese military sources, the United Evening News said Washington had made the request to acquire some 300 million 5.56-millimeter bullets for rifles for an estimated two billion Taiwan dollars (62.5 million US).
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Originally Posted by dub2w
That is insane. Perhaps because it is primarily used as cover fire?
I can only lean on my significant CS gaming to deduce the reasons
I can only lean on my significant CS gaming to deduce the reasons
If I were to make any military assumtions it would only come from my vast knowledge of the America's Army game and Battlefield 2.
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kind of silly
Originally Posted by psoper
According to the September 1 Manufacturing & Technology News, the Government Accounting Office has reported that over the course of the cakewalk war, the US military's use of small caliber ammunition has risen to 1.8 billion rounds. Think about that number. If there are 20,000 insurgents, it means US troops have fired 90,000 rounds at each insurgent.
Very few have been hit. We don't know how many. To avoid the analogy with Vietnam, until last week the US military studiously avoided body counts. If 2,000 insurgents have been killed, each death required 900,000 rounds of ammunition.
Very few have been hit. We don't know how many. To avoid the analogy with Vietnam, until last week the US military studiously avoided body counts. If 2,000 insurgents have been killed, each death required 900,000 rounds of ammunition.
Yes the death toll on our men in uniform has risen to almost 2000. Look at it this way, the U.S. highway system is still many times more dangerous to Americans than this war zone is. I'd say our troops are doing a superb job of keeping things under control.
Take all the men and women in the military, here and over seas. On the battlefield, in garrison, in transit, or jumping from plains, there are hundreds of thousands of them doing things that are far more dangerous than what most civilians do, except for one thing....driving on our damn highways. It's safer to be in the militray than it is to drive on U.S. highways. Yet you don't hear anyone pitching a ***** about that...
I know,...that's silly too.
Last edited by Chrisnonstop; Sep 21, 2005 at 10:02 AM. Reason: changed title
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I would also like to add that Military Operations in Urbanized Terrain always require more small arms ammunition due to the difficulties and defensibility of combat in cities.
Per Army Field Manual FM 90-10 MOUT, as it relates to ammo
Class V (Ammo)
"consumption rates for small arms ammunition, handgrenades, and light antitank weapons increase...."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...10ch5.htm#s_45
Per Army Field Manual FM 90-10 MOUT, as it relates to ammo
Class V (Ammo)
"consumption rates for small arms ammunition, handgrenades, and light antitank weapons increase...."
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...10ch5.htm#s_45
Last edited by svxr8dr; Sep 21, 2005 at 10:20 AM.
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Originally Posted by Oaf
Actually, if you factor in all the women, children, goats, dogs, cats, and camels it's only 7 rounds per dead person.
And no ****, Salty, about the amount of ammo expended.
I worked in ammo section for a year & delivered countless 100 of thousands of 5.56 rounds
I also instructed ROTC cadets on movment to contact with blank & live rounds.
On one training lane, we expended 11,000 rounds of SAW ammo per day!
1lb of powder = 7000 grains.
1gr = 178 ft-lbs.
1 5.56 round =~27grains
Soooo, do the math: 27grains/rd X 178ft-lbs/gr X 1.8E9 rounds =______ ft-lbs.
And no ****, Salty, about the amount of ammo expended.
I worked in ammo section for a year & delivered countless 100 of thousands of 5.56 rounds
I also instructed ROTC cadets on movment to contact with blank & live rounds.
On one training lane, we expended 11,000 rounds of SAW ammo per day!
1lb of powder = 7000 grains.
1gr = 178 ft-lbs.
1 5.56 round =~27grains
Soooo, do the math: 27grains/rd X 178ft-lbs/gr X 1.8E9 rounds =______ ft-lbs.
Yeah, people just don't realize how much ammo the military eats. I bet half of these rounds are expended on live fire ranges over there as well. There's NO POSSIBLE way you can measure the bullet:insurgent ratio with any significance.
I think my math is right. If there's a jump it's because i used online conversion.
foot-pound (symbol ft-lb); 1 ft-lb = 1.356 joule
megaton of TNT is 4.184 × 1015 joules = 4.184 petajoules
4.184 petajoule = 4,184,000,000,000,000 joule
27grains/rd X 178ft-lbs/gr X 1,800,000,000 rounds = 8,650,800,000,000 ft-lbs.= 0.0117289 petajoule
= 0.0028033 megaton = 2,803.3 tons of TNT in 5.56mm (if we assume all of it is 5.56mm).
Did the article mention anything about counting 50cal or 25mm?
I'm no scientist but maybe a nuclear bomb big enough to devastate a big neighborhood along with fallout? Still, if you've ever burnt gun powder it really doesn't have an explosive property unless it's contained so the gases can expand. That's a lot of powder!
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