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Old 05-04-2009, 10:53 AM
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Help me understand why it's better here...

If you will. I keep reading things about us heading in a socialist direction, and I keep re-reading things I thought I understood when I was younger. It's not helping.

Maybe it's because I am married to a Swede and have been over there loads in the last 5 years, but I find this really funny:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...kholm-syndrome

The first time I went over there, I enjoyed it and took it all in. In recurring trips I began to realize that I was visiting a place where humans had created a place that was good for humans to live. I started asking people about their lives, work, education, any problems, etc. I found no problems and not one person who represents the knowledge-free deductions laid forth by most of the people crying socialism on this board and others. People were engaged with their lives, interested in staying employed and happy to be there. My wife's best friend is a librarian, and she and her husband just bought their house a couple years ago. We have been living here and trying unsuccessfully for a long time. It's obvious that "we are just doing it wrong" but it CANNOT be ignored that there are MILLIONS in my same state while I could not find one person in a similar position over there - not one.

My brother in law owns his own business doing shipments and deliveries, and has a side job of a photographer at a moto-racing track. My father-in-law was the only person who told me of a downside and that was, from his point of view, that it was difficult to change jobs or careers once you selected what you wanted to do. This was discounted by 4 other people who had changed careers multiple times and quoted no issues finding work or re-training.

My wife came here in '02. Over there, she was a floral designer and worked out of a local shop. She was renting her own place and was able to save money. She decided to take an adventure and come here to live, and brought her savings of about $4k USD. After being here for one year, she had to have 2 to 3 concurrent jobs to keep her rented room in SF. After the first year, she was getting into tax debt to the tune of about $1k a year until 2006. I have heard stories like this over and over and over and over. I have known people who were working as hard as they knew how but couldn't make it work yet over there even someone working in an aluminum mill is happy to go to work every day and is financially stable.

I guess some would say I don't belong here, but I would like to understand why. Am I simply "not smart enough" to make it in a capitalist world? I have worked hard all my life since I was 12 years old and never asked anyone for a dime - I am not a deadbeat, but I have also not been overly successful. I have built a career out of nothing, and have many skills to contribute, and I pay my taxes. Why is it that from my personal experience in living in the UK for 2 years, and over 10 other trips to Europe - many over 2 month stays - I have found happier people who were not worried for a second about their lives?

I truly want to understand because I am an American, and I do indeed love it here in this land. I want to understand why I should stand against these changes when - in short - it is hard to live here and not hard to live there. I want to understand why I should be in favor of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. I want to understand why people who have never lived in a socialist country make authoritative comments about how the people there are deadbeats when - I couldn't find any but there are more than enough to go around over here. I really do want to understand why or how someone could honestly use Sweden as an example of what we don't want to be.

At the end of the day, I want to stop worrying about my future every single day and wondering why I cannot make it work here, when I am working hard and doing everything I know to make it work. I want to believe that I can have my own business and not worry that my gov't is going to squash it. I want to understand why this failing land should fear changes that would make it a better place to live for the people doing the living. I love history and I am proud of what our forefathers did to create this great nation, but those men - may they rest in peace and not roll over in their graves at the thoughts of today - were of a different era with different concerns. One of the eternally un-answerable thoughts I have is - what would they do with today!

If it's really all about not changing for the sake of not changing, then - it seems I should quietly exit stage left. I am tired of working so hard to have a ****ty life and no future, or even worse, a future that could disappear at the stroke of some decisions like what our banker friends have done with my 401k, stock and other investments I have had for years. Regardless of what this nation stood for 200+ years ago, I am talking about people having good lives or not, being financially stable or not, being cared for or not. It seems like it's all "not" over here and I want to know why that is better for us. Because it seems like it's not.

I dearly hope that this does not simply inspire name calling, categorization and ignorant comments, because this is something that has been in my head and my heart for many years - I take it seriously. If we cannot discuss this like adults then we probably are not adults. I want to want to be here, and to understand why it's better like I felt I did when I was in school learning about the history of our country, what made it be, and why.


Last edited by wombatsauce; 05-04-2009 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Linktarded.
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Old 05-04-2009, 03:08 PM
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Describe your lifestyle.
How much debt do you have?
How much "stuff" do you have?


The only way you'll ever make it, is to become your own boss.
I went to school.
I went to college.
I earned a degree.
I got a corporate job.
I got pissed off.
I got fired.

Not laid off...fired.

Best.
Thing.
Ever.

I'm my own boss, doing what I really enjoy, making a decent living.
But, the gov't regulates everything, controls everything, etc.
And that's why I fear socialism; gov't does not need to be involved in our daily lives.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Paul@dbtuned
Describe your lifestyle.
How much debt do you have?
How much "stuff" do you have?


The only way you'll ever make it, is to become your own boss.
I went to school.
I went to college.
I earned a degree.
I got a corporate job.
I got pissed off.
I got fired.

Not laid off...fired.

Best.
Thing.
Ever.

I'm my own boss, doing what I really enjoy, making a decent living.
But, the gov't regulates everything, controls everything, etc.
And that's why I fear socialism; gov't does not need to be involved in our daily lives.
My lifestyle is pretty simple these days, and it's been all about erasing debt - both mine from accumulated fun times, trips and such and my wife's from the same and her tax issues. We were down to 0 debt last year but I have been living off savings and have slowly added another ~$8k of debt which includes a $3k Fed tax surprise and repair costs on my Mini that were not planned or expected. Will hopefully be back to 0 debt soon but it will take some time of course.

Stuff, very little - I sold 4 cars in the last few months and am down to 3 - mine, my wife's and the money grubbing project car. Still selling stuff to pare down un-used owned items and raise money. I live in a teeny 1br apartment which keeps the accumulation low. We live here as we have been saving to own our own land, out of town somewhere, but are slowly realizing we most likely need to pull that desire out of the Bay Area for it to work.

I grew up with my father telling me to NEVER work for someone else and ALWAYS be my own boss. He used those very words: "The only way you'll ever make it is to become your own boss." He has done this since he was 16 and has been a mechanic, then owner of his own body/mechanic shop, pilot, building contractor, author, etc. Not sure what went wrong with me, but if I had to guess after actually thinking about it - it could very well be the comfy life that the corporate world seems to exude. Eeek.

I started out doing car work in my pop's shop for people in my neighborhood when I would get home from school - doing simple things like brakes, shocks, the odd water pump, etc and had more work than I could do. Then I started my own company doing network installations for Hawaii DOE and wired up a couple schools and such. For some reason, I folded it all up and came here to the Bay Area when I was around 20, and have been in the corporate quagmire ever since. It's been a fun ride as I have lived in different parts of the world and had some really fun experiences but it's such a hollow feeling and maybe THAT is what is wrong with me right now. I have had time to think about it, and come to the conclusion that my pops (and you) are dead on, but I feel like I screwed up by not gaining experience in the fields I want to pursue. I feel mildly locked into this IT network engineering track I have followed and maybe just because of the amount of time I have spent doing this and that I am pretty damn good at what I do. But it's not what I want to do forever, as I have said for years, as if this life were some sort of dress rehearsal...

So I have looked into switching careers, to move into something along the lines of what I want to do. If I could pick one out of the sky it would be to own my own shop doing automotive restorations and mechanical work on old picky special interest cars. In search of direction, I have been helping out at this shop near me that does just that, and I feel like a new person when I am there and when I get home from the day. I tore apart 3 '41 Caddy transmissions and helped make one good one. Once we get it in the car I get to take it for a ride - I have never driven one of those and that's just about all I can think about. There are 2 Panteras that I get to start messing with soon if this keeps up. Problem is - I don't know what to do from here, and I know that it's up to me to figure it out. That is nearly a definition of FREEDOM and sometimes freedom can be scary to those that are not used to it.

Your last paragraph I think really explains it, and answers my whole question that took me a diatribe to pose. I get it - and it makes sense. My "happy feelings" in other lands may just be the product of my laziness and willingness to punch a clock rather than a face. Hmmmm.... I've never rocked the boat enough to get fired, and have been lured along by the carrot of slowly increasing wages until recently where I have found myself in search of a destination that holds much more meaning. Hmmmmm....

There are still some personal obstacles I need to get through - one is the thought of wiping out our savings on a hare-brained scheme to move myself in the direction I want the rest of my life to take. Another one that has been there for a long time is nearly every one of the people I have looked up to in my life for being their own boss has done something somewhat shady to be successful, usually around the area of taxes. I think I may have taken those items out of context back then, and am coming closer to understanding it now.

The final obstacle for me is not knowing what to do, but again - that is the freedom part. Not having anything that I MUST do beyond eventually gaining an income is being able to choose what I want to do. Not choosing what I want to do and sitting on my **** whining about it, well that's just a waste of freedom. Hmmmmm....

Thank you for provoking thought, and answering my question - since you really did. It's better here because we can succeed or fail, it's up to US. Some of you have known that for a long time, and are seeing signs of it slipping away. Now that I look at it in this light and think about it - if I had to choose between being propped up by a government or propping myself up - I would choose myself, and it took all these words and a little time from you to figure that out. Maybe it's been hiding in there since I stopped being my own boss.

"The best time to plant a tree is 40 years ago; the next best time is today."

I read through my original post, and it reads like I am ready to hand in my passport - which is really not the case. I was going to reply to your post last night, but my internoodle conked out which let me ponder this subject and turn it over and over in my head until this morning when I read it all from top to bottom again. I guess that's what this is all about and why I posted this in the first place - to provoke thought. I doubt I will be able to think about anything else as during the process of posing my question and having it answered, it seems as if I just didn't get it, maybe even to the point of not being deserving of my freedom. The point was to understand though, so this is going well. Thank you, at least once more.
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