STI appears too expensive, EVO is here and very nice.....
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In real life it's not quite like that....
Originally posted by metoo
Looking at the 3 cars (WRX, EVO, STi) in stock form, each is probably a great car for the money, that is assuming you would never consider modifying the car. In stock form, I prefer the STi, then the Evo, then the WRX. If I were willing to mod all of these cars, the STi would be my first choice, then WRX, my second, and EVO third. Why? Because the EVO is 2L, 5sp, no special center diff. Basically it's a modified WRX, but surely handles better. $5k will easily make a WRX do everthing better than a stock EVO. With the EVO pushing 19psi with a twin scroll, it appears to me that gaining power in the EVO will be relatively expensive. I'm guessing the EVO is probably only $2k (purely a wishful guess)less than the STi, and $2k in mods on and EVO won't make for a car I'd rather have over a stok STi. One good thing traditionally for the Evo is its torque. That gets a thumbs up. Personally, I can't wait to at least get a ride in one.
Looking at the 3 cars (WRX, EVO, STi) in stock form, each is probably a great car for the money, that is assuming you would never consider modifying the car. In stock form, I prefer the STi, then the Evo, then the WRX. If I were willing to mod all of these cars, the STi would be my first choice, then WRX, my second, and EVO third. Why? Because the EVO is 2L, 5sp, no special center diff. Basically it's a modified WRX, but surely handles better. $5k will easily make a WRX do everthing better than a stock EVO. With the EVO pushing 19psi with a twin scroll, it appears to me that gaining power in the EVO will be relatively expensive. I'm guessing the EVO is probably only $2k (purely a wishful guess)less than the STi, and $2k in mods on and EVO won't make for a car I'd rather have over a stok STi. One good thing traditionally for the Evo is its torque. That gets a thumbs up. Personally, I can't wait to at least get a ride in one.
The STi is probably gonna be a great car too. No doubt about it, the engine is bigger, it comes with a 6 speed. etc. The big problem is that the price was going to be too high and the car is not here yet! As I said before, I spoke many times with the Subaru dealer where I got my WRX and they told me outrageous things about non-refundable deposits, huge markups and all kinds of discouraging crap. On the other hand, Carmax sold me a new EVO for a little *under* MSRP. I don't see much of a choice here....
As far as modifying the car goes, I'm really going to try very hard to not do anything to this car. The truth is that I liked my WRX stock much better than after all the expensive, fairly worthless mods that I did to it. As somebody already said, folks already have found out in other brands that there is a huge difference between the "real" thing and a modified "tuner car". Like they found out, even after tons of money and time, the ITR was superior to the modded GSR. There is more to the EVO than a WRX with a bunch of aftermarket parts added to it.
BTW, this morning I pushed the pedal in 5th gear to cross a few lanes of interstate... well, I can tell you that this EVO car is very, very, fast and powerful. I love the WRX, but there is simply no comparison.....
Peace,
Manuel
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You're not the only one making a choice for the cheaper and "less hassle" purchase of Evo over STI. There will be a fair amount of this going on, that is why the handfull of dealers out there who think they are gonna charge $1-2K over an already high MSRP are in for a rude awakening. Once the 100 people in this country who are either willing or stupid enough to pay over MSRP for their STI have received their cars, the other 3,400 STIs will sell at, or lower than, MSRP. (Just like what happened with the WRX debut).
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
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You are right.....
Originally posted by whipsaw
You're not the only one making a choice for the cheaper and "less hassle" purchase of Evo over STI. There will be a fair amount of this going on, that is why the handfull of dealers out there who think they are gonna charge $1-2K over an already high MSRP are in for a rude awakening. Once the 100 people in this country who are either willing or stupid enough to pay over MSRP for their STI have received their cars, the other 3,400 STIs will sell at, or lower than, MSRP. (Just like what happened with the WRX debut).
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
You're not the only one making a choice for the cheaper and "less hassle" purchase of Evo over STI. There will be a fair amount of this going on, that is why the handfull of dealers out there who think they are gonna charge $1-2K over an already high MSRP are in for a rude awakening. Once the 100 people in this country who are either willing or stupid enough to pay over MSRP for their STI have received their cars, the other 3,400 STIs will sell at, or lower than, MSRP. (Just like what happened with the WRX debut).
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
I think that the economy is sucking so bad that they are going to have problems selling the EVOs and STis even at sticker price. I probably could have gotten a better deal if I waited. I just had to have it now
. Anyway, I did get a reasonably good price for my WRX. I doubt that I could have gotten more than $18K to $19K for it no matter what. Yes, I could have theoretically saved maybe $1K or $2K if everything went just right, but I think I got a good deal plus the car I wanted. I'm as excited about this car as I was about the WRX when I first got it
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Re: STI appears too expensive, EVO is here and very nice.....
Originally posted by Yellow Rex
Well, surprise, surprise, the car was still there this morning. Not only that, but the pricxe was *below* MSRP!! What can I say? they gave me a fairly acceptable trade on my yellow rex (it was sad to say goodbye), I managed to scrape up the balance and..... well, what can i say, it's an awesome car. fast as hell, great brakes, handles like a modified sports car and look great! Sorry Subaru, I really wanted the STi but all the jerking around by the dealer, the high price and the timing did it for me. I still can't wait to see the new STi, but I'm very happy with the EVO!!
Well, surprise, surprise, the car was still there this morning. Not only that, but the pricxe was *below* MSRP!! What can I say? they gave me a fairly acceptable trade on my yellow rex (it was sad to say goodbye), I managed to scrape up the balance and..... well, what can i say, it's an awesome car. fast as hell, great brakes, handles like a modified sports car and look great! Sorry Subaru, I really wanted the STi but all the jerking around by the dealer, the high price and the timing did it for me. I still can't wait to see the new STi, but I'm very happy with the EVO!!
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Originally posted by whipsaw
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
Also, I couldn't agree more with modding the cars. Some people just love to tinker and it is a hobby for them. But I have to laugh when I see $15K civic with $30K worth of all kinds of stuff done to it. Why not just buy the M3 or Boxster for that kind of coin?
'95 Impreza coupe, cost $5k, weight ~2500lbs
STI engine/tranny, guestimate around $10,000
Really nice suspension w/ wheels and tires and such ~$4000
Total cost: 19,000
300hp at around 2800lbs... Do you honestly think thats not worth it?
(its also completely legal btw, swaping a newer engine into an older car)
Originally posted by Yellow Rex
Believe or not, some Mitsu dealers are apparently asking for *and* getting premiums of up to $4K over MSRP for their EVOs.
Believe or not, some Mitsu dealers are apparently asking for *and* getting premiums of up to $4K over MSRP for their EVOs.
(Kings beat the Lakers tonight btw, tehe)
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Originally posted by Kostamojen
Heres why:
'95 Impreza coupe, cost $5k, weight ~2500lbs
STI engine/tranny, guestimate around $10,000
Really nice suspension w/ wheels and tires and such ~$4000
Total cost: 19,000
300hp at around 2800lbs... Do you honestly think thats not worth it? (its also completely legal btw, swaping a newer engine into an older car)
Heres why:
'95 Impreza coupe, cost $5k, weight ~2500lbs
STI engine/tranny, guestimate around $10,000
Really nice suspension w/ wheels and tires and such ~$4000
Total cost: 19,000
300hp at around 2800lbs... Do you honestly think thats not worth it?
(its also completely legal btw, swaping a newer engine into an older car)Sometimes the best laid plans don't add up in the end. Time and headaches are woth something as well, not to mention a complete new car warranty. Suffice it to say, it's not just a matter of paying $19k vs. $33k.
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Originally posted by Kostamojen
Heres why:
'95 Impreza coupe, cost $5k, weight ~2500lbs
STI engine/tranny, guestimate around $10,000
Really nice suspension w/ wheels and tires and such ~$4000
Total cost: 19,000
300hp at around 2800lbs... Do you honestly think thats not worth it? (its also completely legal btw, swaping a newer engine into an older car)
None of the evo's here have sold yet, and its been what 3 weeks? A $15k markup is not reasonable, and i guess unlike LA sacramento doesnt have stupid people willing to pay that much
(Kings beat the Lakers tonight btw, tehe)
Heres why:
'95 Impreza coupe, cost $5k, weight ~2500lbs
STI engine/tranny, guestimate around $10,000
Really nice suspension w/ wheels and tires and such ~$4000
Total cost: 19,000
300hp at around 2800lbs... Do you honestly think thats not worth it?
(its also completely legal btw, swaping a newer engine into an older car)None of the evo's here have sold yet, and its been what 3 weeks? A $15k markup is not reasonable, and i guess unlike LA sacramento doesnt have stupid people willing to pay that much
(Kings beat the Lakers tonight btw, tehe)
I would guess (very optimistically) that the work involved in creating such a car would be at least 160 hours. At $50 per hour (cheap) that would come to $8K. This brings the total to around $27K, and this is probably wildly optimistic. Now you have a dated, old car with a new drivetrain (not made for it) and all the little issues that will continue to plague you.
If you want a nice, new looking finish, you must add the cost of body work and paint plus any body kit, a minimum of $5K assuming you do about half of the work yourself. Now, add a set of Recaro seats, new carpets, new interior panels, new dash kit, etc. and you are looking at at least $2K plus labor (easily $1K).
Now we are at around $35K ...... A tidy sum for sure. Granted, you'd have a nice ride but still not comparable in fit, finish and reliable performance to a new STi or EVO8.
No, it's a nice idea, but in practical terms it is not too good unless you can do all the work yourself, find all the parts and materials for dirt cheap and really enjoy working on a long term project.
Peace,
Manuel
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here are some pictures
Originally posted by JasonCSU
Do you have any pics of your car yet?
Do you have any pics of your car yet?
Manuel
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Car Info: 1995 Subaru Impreza 1.8 L
If you cant do it yourself, you shouldnt be modding Exept when it comes to complicated wiring, which I including in the cost. I know jack about cars, but I could install everything but the wiring harness. Suspensions are easy as pie, engines and trannys are easy too and all you need is a rented engine lift.
And I dont understand this whole "dated" arguement... You buy a brand new car, its worth half that 4 years later and its no longer even the current design... Buy cars you like not just the newest model cause its new
Ok, so ill throw in some leatherseats group buy leather for $600 and the interior is fixed
Exept when it comes to complicated wiring, which I including in the cost. I know jack about cars, but I could install everything but the wiring harness. Suspensions are easy as pie, engines and trannys are easy too and all you need is a rented engine lift.And I dont understand this whole "dated" arguement... You buy a brand new car, its worth half that 4 years later and its no longer even the current design... Buy cars you like not just the newest model cause its new
Ok, so ill throw in some leatherseats group buy leather for $600 and the interior is fixed
While the arguement for an older Impreza with the swanky drivetrain is a trendy one now, it is true its a world of compromises. Its an overall expensive and laborious project, and its hard to acquire all the components at the precise time you want. I was among the first to turbocharge my RS, then ditched that setup (after alot of money had gone into it), and spent even more (well more than half of what the RS cost me in the first place!), on the STi swap, and was among the first in the country with this setup. While the car rocked afterwards, it is NOT something I would ever do again. Having owned and modded countless cars over the years, nothing beats a brand new car IMHO. Why? Because when it was all said and done, I had a $60k Impreza.....certainly not a car I coul ever afford to have an accident with, and not a car I really could afford to sell. When the time came for me to unfortunately sell my car, I took a complete bath..and it was not long after shelling out the $$ for th engine swap (tranny swap was acarried out a year before). While I still got more for my car than almost anyone else gets for a modded Subaru of any kind ion this country, it amounted to less than half of what I had into it..not very good economies of scale. For that kind of money, inretrospect, I shold have either bought an R32 and modded it (at least they retain their value in this country), or purchased a '94 911 Turbo I always lusted after (964 body), done a boost controller and exhaust, and called it a day! A twenty twenty vision.......
Now, if you have the pleasure of being able to do both...a new Evo for daily driving and a project Impreze to play with, then thats all the better!
As for the labor side of things, I would disagree. I can do the work myself, but still pay my staff to do it for me, in large respect that that is their strength, whereas the sourcing of items and research on the best overall combo is my strength.
Granted, the buildup of my Impreza was a blast..I never had a wasted mod, since I spent loads of timing finding out for myself what was worth doing and what was not. But again, I would not elect to do it again for myself.
Now, if you have the pleasure of being able to do both...a new Evo for daily driving and a project Impreze to play with, then thats all the better!
As for the labor side of things, I would disagree. I can do the work myself, but still pay my staff to do it for me, in large respect that that is their strength, whereas the sourcing of items and research on the best overall combo is my strength.
Granted, the buildup of my Impreza was a blast..I never had a wasted mod, since I spent loads of timing finding out for myself what was worth doing and what was not. But again, I would not elect to do it again for myself.
