Upgrade Speaker Advice Needed
02-10-2003, 01:05 PM
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Good point on Home audio and Car audio... Im not tring to get a perfect soundstage (if there is such a thing 
) but mearly tring to do all i can to achive the best sound in the car as possible, GIving my self a lot of head room from a great amp, and give it the cleanest signal as I can.
MB's Blowing from HU... Most likly the fault of driving them too hard without enough power to control them which Plunk10 was saying. But it sounds like you fixed the problem well!!
) but mearly tring to do all i can to achive the best sound in the car as possible, GIving my self a lot of head room from a great amp, and give it the cleanest signal as I can.MB's Blowing from HU... Most likly the fault of driving them too hard without enough power to control them which Plunk10 was saying. But it sounds like you fixed the problem well!!
02-10-2003, 03:07 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Downingtown, PA
Posts: 50
Car Info: 2003 Impreza 2.5 RS Sedan, BRP
Green,
Those my friend, "GIving my self a lot of head room from a great amp, and give it the cleanest signal as I can" are very realistic goals!
Lazarus,
As others have already noted, it's MUCH easier to blow speakers with too little amplifier power than it is with too much power. Remember there is no standard for rating a speakers power handling capability. It's basically an educated guess for a range that the speaker will likely see in the average installation.
Also, many headunits, and power amps for that matter, publish "brochure specs" when it comes to power output in order to attract the consumer. As Green noted as one of his goals, headroom (the ability of an amplifier to deliver enough current from it's reserves during a musical peak) is what distinguishes good power amps from bad ones. By depending on only the amp in your headunit, you are significantly limiting your speakers and your system's capability.
Look at it from a strictly physical point of view. Do yuo actually think you can get the same "50W x 4" out of your little headunit as you could get out of a stand-alone "50W x 4" power amp??? Some compromises MUST be made by the engineer when desinging the amplifier stage for the headunit. The engineer working on the stand-alone power amp has a bigger box to work with, can utilize higher quality parts, etc.
All of that said, I've heard conservatively rated "50W" amps deliver FAR better sound quality with more headroom than some "100W" amps out there.
Good luck!
Bill
Those my friend, "GIving my self a lot of head room from a great amp, and give it the cleanest signal as I can" are very realistic goals!
Lazarus,
As others have already noted, it's MUCH easier to blow speakers with too little amplifier power than it is with too much power. Remember there is no standard for rating a speakers power handling capability. It's basically an educated guess for a range that the speaker will likely see in the average installation.
Also, many headunits, and power amps for that matter, publish "brochure specs" when it comes to power output in order to attract the consumer. As Green noted as one of his goals, headroom (the ability of an amplifier to deliver enough current from it's reserves during a musical peak) is what distinguishes good power amps from bad ones. By depending on only the amp in your headunit, you are significantly limiting your speakers and your system's capability.
Look at it from a strictly physical point of view. Do yuo actually think you can get the same "50W x 4" out of your little headunit as you could get out of a stand-alone "50W x 4" power amp??? Some compromises MUST be made by the engineer when desinging the amplifier stage for the headunit. The engineer working on the stand-alone power amp has a bigger box to work with, can utilize higher quality parts, etc.
All of that said, I've heard conservatively rated "50W" amps deliver FAR better sound quality with more headroom than some "100W" amps out there.
Good luck!
Bill
02-10-2003, 04:58 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8
Thanks for the input....the distortion was so awful and seemed to be a result of me "testing" how loud the thing could get...I just assumed it was too much juice....The speakers were from their Discus line which I think is pretty much the lowest tier of performance--unlike their "Q" series...which is much more expensive.
Either way...the addition of the amp and the Diamond speakers has worked out well...it just hurt to spend that much money on a speaker that was used for a week and is now useless....
Either way...the addition of the amp and the Diamond speakers has worked out well...it just hurt to spend that much money on a speaker that was used for a week and is now useless....
02-11-2003, 04:53 AM
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
what amp?
Great thoughts and info... I'm learning more from this thread than I could have expected. It seems that I will need to buy a decent 4 or 5 chanel amp to drive my new speakers and my sub.
I don't have endless funds to spare though. Can I get a quality amp for $200-250? Any brands reccomended?
Thanks,
Spence M.
I don't have endless funds to spare though. Can I get a quality amp for $200-250? Any brands reccomended?
Thanks,
Spence M.
02-11-2003, 05:05 AM
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
How does this kenwood amp look?
http://www.circuitcity.com/frame1.js...517&QUANTITY=1
I was thinking I could amp my front speakers and then double up on the sub...?
Any opinions?
http://www.circuitcity.com/frame1.js...517&QUANTITY=1
I was thinking I could amp my front speakers and then double up on the sub...?
Any opinions?
02-11-2003, 08:40 AM
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
It's the distortion in the stock system that killed your MB's.
One extremely important factor in selecting an amp is
the signal to noise rating. Find an amp that is at least 95db. The higher the better. This rating indicates how much clean signal there is versus how much "noise" (distortion) is present. The higher db will play louder but cleaner.
Speakers also have a rating regarding their efficiency. Speakers rated at
90db will generate 90db of sound pressure at 1 meter per 1 watt of power.
The higher the rating the louder a speaker will play with the same amp.
So, if you have a speaker that is rated at 90db and you put in a speaker that is rated at 93db you will notice a good volume increase even with the same power. 3db is a noticeable difference. Below 3db most people can't tell.
The main idea is to go with as much clean amp power as you can afford, even if its rated at lower power, it will still play louder and sound better.
I plan to keep the stock head unit as I did in my Mits Eclipse. I like the multi disc in-dash setup. The stock head unit in the Mits was very nice. The output was rather low but with a good amp you can adjust the "input" with some gain. I don't know what the line output is on the Subaru head unit.
Does anyone know?
I will make a break out with RCA's from the stock head unit and run that to a 4 channel amp. Then I'll bridge the rear for a sub and drive the front components with the front side. I will change the components with some Rockford Fosgate Fanatic X speakers. I like those and they don't cost an arm and a leg. I also want to add a second amp to drive the rear speakers but I want to make them run through a switch so that I can turn them off when I don't have passengers, so as to try and keep some soundstage in the front.
I hope to use some to of the info here from the people that have done some of these things already. Thank you in advance.
T
One extremely important factor in selecting an amp is
the signal to noise rating. Find an amp that is at least 95db. The higher the better. This rating indicates how much clean signal there is versus how much "noise" (distortion) is present. The higher db will play louder but cleaner.
Speakers also have a rating regarding their efficiency. Speakers rated at
90db will generate 90db of sound pressure at 1 meter per 1 watt of power.
The higher the rating the louder a speaker will play with the same amp.
So, if you have a speaker that is rated at 90db and you put in a speaker that is rated at 93db you will notice a good volume increase even with the same power. 3db is a noticeable difference. Below 3db most people can't tell.
The main idea is to go with as much clean amp power as you can afford, even if its rated at lower power, it will still play louder and sound better.
I plan to keep the stock head unit as I did in my Mits Eclipse. I like the multi disc in-dash setup. The stock head unit in the Mits was very nice. The output was rather low but with a good amp you can adjust the "input" with some gain. I don't know what the line output is on the Subaru head unit.
Does anyone know?
I will make a break out with RCA's from the stock head unit and run that to a 4 channel amp. Then I'll bridge the rear for a sub and drive the front components with the front side. I will change the components with some Rockford Fosgate Fanatic X speakers. I like those and they don't cost an arm and a leg. I also want to add a second amp to drive the rear speakers but I want to make them run through a switch so that I can turn them off when I don't have passengers, so as to try and keep some soundstage in the front.
I hope to use some to of the info here from the people that have done some of these things already. Thank you in advance.
T
04-09-2003, 01:24 PM
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
MB Quarts are awesome!!!
I bought a set of MB Quart components for my '99 Outback Sport. They were $500 with the upgraded MusiComp crossovers. Worth every penny. Of Course, you need a good amp, I got an Xtant 50w stereo amp.
I couldn't believe how good they sounded! Better than my home system, until I recently upgraded that with B&W speakers and Rotel receiver.
I think the Quarts are still the best speakers, as far as sound quality, that are readily available. The Dynaudios are better, but even more expensive. The automotive enviornment is brutal for speakers, one of my woofers blew, was replaced free under warranty (3 yrs., you get what you pay for!) Tweeter blew a year later, also replaced under warranty.
After listening to the Quarts, I am spoiled and can't stand listening to the factory speakers in my newly acquired WRX.
I couldn't believe how good they sounded! Better than my home system, until I recently upgraded that with B&W speakers and Rotel receiver.
I think the Quarts are still the best speakers, as far as sound quality, that are readily available. The Dynaudios are better, but even more expensive. The automotive enviornment is brutal for speakers, one of my woofers blew, was replaced free under warranty (3 yrs., you get what you pay for!) Tweeter blew a year later, also replaced under warranty.
After listening to the Quarts, I am spoiled and can't stand listening to the factory speakers in my newly acquired WRX.
04-23-2003, 03:36 AM
#23
Good sound can be had from an automotive environment. For your $500 limit I would buy a decent 2 channel amp and a good sub. Of course you have to figure in a wiring kit and line converter. The sub will definatley be the best improvement for your money.
PS about speakers sounding good in one car and crappy in another..this is absolutly true. BUT, one thing that can be done to improve the sound is too dynamat over all the holes in your inner door and install a V-Block behind the speaker. The V-Block diffuses the sound energy coming off the back of the speaker, and sealing off the holes creates a better "enclourse" for your speakers
PS about speakers sounding good in one car and crappy in another..this is absolutly true. BUT, one thing that can be done to improve the sound is too dynamat over all the holes in your inner door and install a V-Block behind the speaker. The V-Block diffuses the sound energy coming off the back of the speaker, and sealing off the holes creates a better "enclourse" for your speakers
04-25-2003, 11:20 AM
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Hummm I thought most of these speakers would not fit in a WRX: kapps, MB quartz and Diamonds.. The mounting depth in the car is so low. I am looking for some 61/2 components that handle 100w(rms), but all of them I have looked at supposedly would not fit (again to large of a mounting depth), is this true? Is their a solution. I have upgraded speakers aready, but I want a little more. So will kappa components or the likes fit?
Thanks
Thanks
05-13-2003, 06:14 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Herndon, VA
Posts: 228
Car Info: 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX
Originally posted by Lazarus
I threw out my so-called "premium sound upgrade" the day I got the car...for $490 + $15 s/h I picked up a Pioneer Premier DEH-P940MP on eBay.
For another $130 (total) I got an MB Quart 6 1/2" component set (tweeters & crossovers)
And another $87 (total) I got a pair of MB Quart 4" for the rear...the whole thing cost a little more than $500 but is well worth it.
I threw out my so-called "premium sound upgrade" the day I got the car...for $490 + $15 s/h I picked up a Pioneer Premier DEH-P940MP on eBay.
For another $130 (total) I got an MB Quart 6 1/2" component set (tweeters & crossovers)
And another $87 (total) I got a pair of MB Quart 4" for the rear...the whole thing cost a little more than $500 but is well worth it.
and do ya have a link for some pics or something......you described the setup i thought about getting , except the head unit...
scott
06-01-2003, 09:58 PM
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
I heard a system today in my friends car that absolutely blew my mind. He had crappy $60 Sony fronts and backs and for tweeters he had the little mids taking out of the pods of his computer speakers. In the back he had a 12" sub and did this system sound good. Off the Auxiliary output on his deck he had a cable transmitter of some sort running back to a COMPUTER in his trunk. He actually put a computer in his spare tire well and managed to give it power and controls his MP3's off that. I guess it was the electronic sound enhancing of the computer that made it sound so good. He controls the whole system by a TV controller he points at the passenger side where the sensor is. I have no idea how he does this but it sounds incredible. He has it braced somehow so we can drive hard and hit bumps and it won't skip a beat from the jarring. He has a state of the art sound card set up inside and I guess if you don't go offroad this setup is great. I will find out more details of how he did this.
06-01-2003, 10:01 PM
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
The boston Pro's will fit with a little engineering Even with spacers I watched a shop not only put spacers in but mill off a little of the magnet of a set of Pro Series to get them to fit and clear the window. I was looking to put a set of the Rally Series in my doors since I have them in my kicks already. I have the MTX 6000 series 6.5" and they barely fit and push my door panel off a tad.
Even with spacers I watched a shop not only put spacers in but mill off a little of the magnet of a set of Pro Series to get them to fit and clear the window. I was looking to put a set of the Rally Series in my doors since I have them in my kicks already. I have the MTX 6000 series 6.5" and they barely fit and push my door panel off a tad.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post