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Old May 10, 2005 | 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by sonicsuby
:rotfl:

I'm sorry, but that **** is ownage right there. Ed, give up.
Lets not jump to conclusions here. Perhaps Ed heard the ECU pulling more timing than the DD logs show. After all, that is about as possible as the rest of his arguements...
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:03 PM
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or the elves could have told him...

they tell me all sorts of things
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RussB
i got the information here: http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/diagnostics/

i believe this to be a credible and neutral source.
As the quote says, negative knock correction values are a result of knock. In the case of more recent ECU's, knock correction values tend to be high (again from your own quote). The fact that knock correction is negative means that the ecu had to pull timing bellow the base timing map to stop knock. If you guys think that pulling 10 degrees of timing to stop knock is acceptable for a custom tune, you're just plain wrong.
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:10 PM
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I don't know why I thought I could actually get through to some of you. You guys refuse to listen to reason and refuse to try to learn or understand something new. I give up. Continue to live in your ignorant bubbles and follow blindly without looking at easily available data.
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
As the quote says, negative knock correction values are a result of knock. In the case of more recent ECU's, knock correction values tend to be high (again from your own quote). The fact that knock correction is negative means that the ecu had to pull timing bellow the base timing map to stop knock. If you guys think that pulling 10 degrees of timing to stop knock is acceptable for a custom tune, you're just plain wrong.
Where do you see the ECU pulling 10 degrees of timing?
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
-- Ed

Equilibrium Tuning
Did you get demoted from "Lead Tuner"?
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Ali G
Where do you see the ECU pulling 10 degrees of timing?

And as I stated previously, the load/rpm labels on the axis are not loaded from the ECU so are irrelevent. The labels displayed in the software are from the rom file that is currently loaded. In this case those labels are from the stock rom file that is loaded into the software and should be altered in the actual map that is on the ECU. This is mainly done to allow the fine learning algorithm to work propperly in the extended load range of a modified car.
Last edited by MethodBuilt; May 10, 2005 at 08:18 PM.
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:15 PM
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Show me a data log for that run
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Ali G
Show me a data log for that run
That is not a run. That is simply the fine learning map that the ECU stores. It shows the fine ignition learning that has occured since the ECU was last reset. The negative values shown in this table are reflected in the knock correction values in the logs. The knock correction values that are reported by DD are derived as such (IAM/16) * ignition correction map(load, rpm) - fine learning table(load, rpm). As you can see this equation describes the course adjustment utilizing the IAM and ignition correction map as well as the fine adjustment utilizing the fine learning table. The combination of these two mechanisms results in the knock correction value you see in DD. So in the case of this ECU, the first part of the equation... (IAM/16) * ignition correction map(load, rpm) is maxed out because the IAM is at 16, while the fine learning mechanism is having to pull as much as 9.5 degrees on the top end to stop knock. As you can see, the negative numbers in the fine learning table correspond to areas of low knock correction values in the logs.
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:27 PM
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what is something you like about this thread??
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by schafer
what is something you like about this thread??
nothing at all
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:41 PM
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Some one is playing the ignore game...

haha dude ed get the **** over it man, you really dont want me to get irritated.. I would suggest that you address my other post, or else the **** is really going to hit the fan..

i mean how can you justify your actions? By ignoring the accusations i made against you?

What if i was out right bull****ting?

I must not be, i must be dead on for you to try and wish it away like you have been doing..
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:42 PM
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here is a challenge for you ed..


Show me how accurate the a knock sensor is..

Well lets hear it buddy, your a buddying engineer... lets see some false positive figures for the knock sensor that is used on our cars.. Oh wait you prob dont even know which model it is now do yah
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EQ Tuning
That is not a run. That is simply the fine learning map that the ECU stores. It shows the fine ignition learning that has occured since the ECU was last reset.
So you never saw this -10 degrees you speak of - perhaps Keegan got a bad tank of gas at some point. That would explain the -8.4 you see there, but where is the -10 you mentioned?
The negative values shown in this table are reflected in the knock correction values in the logs.
Which could have been caused by almost anything.
The knock correction values that are reported by DD are derived as such (IAM/16) * ignition correction map(load, rpm) - fine learning table(load, rpm). As you can see this equation describes the course adjustment utilizing the IAM and ignition correction map as well as the fine adjustment utilizing the fine learning table.
Tell me something I don't already know. Your logs do not show any issues with the way the car was running the only suspect thing here (I will give you that for now but plan to take it away before this post is done) is the fine learning table right?
The combination of these two mechanisms results in the knock correction value you see in DD. So in the case of this ECU, the first part of the equation... (IAM/16) * ignition correction map(load, rpm) is maxed out because the IAM is at 16, while the fine learning mechanism is having to pull as much as 9.5 degrees on the top end to stop knock.
Not having to, had to at one point. Your logs do not show this happening when you were in the car.
As you can see, the negative numbers in the fine learning table correspond to areas of low knock correction values in the logs.
But as pointed out by Russ and ECUTEK, those knock correction numbers are not out of the normal range - how can you even make that arguement. Do you know more than ECUTEK does?

Now lets look at the fine learning table for a minute:

Please follow the link below and scroll down to the fine learning section. Notice that the table they show has as much as -6 in there - also note that learning has not yet completed on the car this was from so it could go even lower. According to ECUTEK, these values are from "very low octane fuel" but that the table is doing what it was designed to do - it is learning what limits the ECU can push depending on conditions. Based on this I would say that -6 is in the realm of the possible so why would -8.4 be such a stretch? And again I do not see this amount of timing being pulled in the logs you posted through Keegan - do you?
http://www.ecutek.com/tuning/ignition/
Old May 10, 2005 | 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dr3d1zzl3
Some one is playing the ignore game...

haha dude ed get the **** over it man, you really dont want me to get irritated.. I would suggest that you address my other post, or else the **** is really going to hit the fan..

i mean how can you justify your actions? By ignoring the accusations i made against you?

What if i was out right bull****ting?

I must not be, i must be dead on for you to try and wish it away like you have been doing..
I haven't seen anything in any of your recent posts that needs a reply. Nothing you have said has any truth or logical argument to it and the other thread you started is just full of outright lies just as you said yourself. I'm not about to play that game.

Seriously though... if you guys prefer to be left in the dark, that's cool by me. I'll leave you alone and I'll stop posting in here. If anyone wants to talk to me about this in more detail, feel free to PM or e-mail me.



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