Boost Addict's 08 WRX - 233whp / 334 wtq - Pics, Vids, Dyno
10-09-2009, 05:18 PM
#91
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
A few quick shots from our header install a couple weeks ago.
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header vs stock header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs stock header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
A peak at the exhaust ports from under the car with the header removed.
Perrin Equal Length Header being bolted up.
A peak down the hood reveals the polished pipe.
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs another after-market unequal length header vs stock header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
Perrin equal length vs stock header. Notice the smaller diameter collectors of the Perrin... probably what's most responsible for the torque and quick response!
A peak at the exhaust ports from under the car with the header removed.
Perrin Equal Length Header being bolted up.
A peak down the hood reveals the polished pipe.
10-09-2009, 10:56 PM
#92
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
This project has come a long way.... And with some real time behind the wheel and several acceleration tests, I can't say I'm completely satisfied. The vf52 has proven to be an extremely strong mid-range turbo delivering quick spool and gobs of torque with a smooth power band. And when compared to the stock '08 td-04, it's holds power well up top, too! But ever since increasing the efficiency and shifting the entire powerband to the left (thanks perrin equal lengths) I'm seeing the turbo peak out a lot sooner than it used to. And with that, I'm not content.
While the mid-range pull is phenomenal, it's simply lacking a top end punch. The header has allowed this snail to spool so quickly and so early that we're seeing maximum power levels near 4500 rpm... While it's kind of cool to have access to over 300whp from 4200-6000, it also reminds you that there's at least a 1700 rpm window of opportunity that isn't being taken advantage of. On the highway, given our tall gearing, it leaves a lot to be desired.
With that said, I'm looking into a larger turbo option and most likely going with a Front Mount Intercooler. I don't want to go too big, nor am I interested in increasing my torque. In fact, I'd prefer it to be no higher than it is. I'm looking for something that will have a decent spool time, but deliver a healthy burst of power all the way to redline. I'm going to set a goal... And looking at my current graph, I would like to see over 340whp by 6000rpm on the same dyno. My torque goal is to stay between 340-365 ft-lbs. While some may chime in that a larger turbo will equal more lag, I completely welcome it. If you guys recall, we delayed the boost response on this tune because we didn't feel comfortable feeding more than 365ft-lbs to the drivetrain. So with a larger turbo and front mount, I'm expecting spool up to hit maybe 200 rpm later, if not at the same time.
I'm going to be doing some research over the next week and see which options make the most sense, both financially and keeping reliability a top priority and making sure the internals aren't pushed too hard. And of course, this goal only makes sense if I can offload my current VF52, and my PERRIN Top Mount Intercooler. So those will definitely be available for sale once I acquire the new turbo and intercooler.
Here's a recent datalog of the current setup... A straight line pull from 50mph in 3rd gear then a shift to 4th is what appears below. Calculating the acceleration figures here are the results:
50-60 - 1.32 sec
50-70 - 2.48 sec
50-80 - 4.00 sec
50-90 - 5.48 sec
50-100 - 8.20 sec*
*a shift to 4th is required to reach 100mph hence the gap of 2.72 sec
.
While the mid-range pull is phenomenal, it's simply lacking a top end punch. The header has allowed this snail to spool so quickly and so early that we're seeing maximum power levels near 4500 rpm... While it's kind of cool to have access to over 300whp from 4200-6000, it also reminds you that there's at least a 1700 rpm window of opportunity that isn't being taken advantage of. On the highway, given our tall gearing, it leaves a lot to be desired.
With that said, I'm looking into a larger turbo option and most likely going with a Front Mount Intercooler. I don't want to go too big, nor am I interested in increasing my torque. In fact, I'd prefer it to be no higher than it is. I'm looking for something that will have a decent spool time, but deliver a healthy burst of power all the way to redline. I'm going to set a goal... And looking at my current graph, I would like to see over 340whp by 6000rpm on the same dyno. My torque goal is to stay between 340-365 ft-lbs. While some may chime in that a larger turbo will equal more lag, I completely welcome it. If you guys recall, we delayed the boost response on this tune because we didn't feel comfortable feeding more than 365ft-lbs to the drivetrain. So with a larger turbo and front mount, I'm expecting spool up to hit maybe 200 rpm later, if not at the same time.
I'm going to be doing some research over the next week and see which options make the most sense, both financially and keeping reliability a top priority and making sure the internals aren't pushed too hard. And of course, this goal only makes sense if I can offload my current VF52, and my PERRIN Top Mount Intercooler. So those will definitely be available for sale once I acquire the new turbo and intercooler.
Here's a recent datalog of the current setup... A straight line pull from 50mph in 3rd gear then a shift to 4th is what appears below. Calculating the acceleration figures here are the results:
50-60 - 1.32 sec
50-70 - 2.48 sec
50-80 - 4.00 sec
50-90 - 5.48 sec
50-100 - 8.20 sec*
*a shift to 4th is required to reach 100mph hence the gap of 2.72 sec
.
10-15-2009, 02:58 AM
#93
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
A few shots of the car with new 3/4 panel vinyl. We were seeking something more attention-grabbing in terms of placement and what better spot than the rear 3/4 panel? We tried an angled approach and it simply conflicted with the body design too much. What do you guys think?
10-18-2009, 02:24 AM
#94
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
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Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
An informational update:
So I made a very disappointing trip to the local 1/8mi drag strip a few days ago. It was the first time I'd actually full blown launched and raced the car since the newest tune. The reason I say it was disappointing was because my ETs were slower, while making more power. Why, you ask? The answer is multifaceted.
Launching the car in the past has been troublesome, with loads of torque on tap, it's been a burden to prevent wheel spin and still accomplish a strong launch. With that in mind, I immediately lowered my tire pressures at the track. I dropped all 4 tires to 25 psi. Now bear in mind, the last time I was at the track, it was on 235 wide rubber... Not 255s. I should have thought of that before dropping the pressures so low. Obviously, unnecessarily low pressures create a lot of drag down the stretch once the vehicle has traction. Well, I adapted well throughout the night, cutting consistent low-1.9s, which are by no means GREAT launches. But considering they were rolled in at only 3500 rpm with a feathered off clutch, that's pretty good pick up! So with the launch down to a respectable 60ft slot, the trouble began.
I launched and ran the tach to 6500. Attempting to shift to second, I was rejected(Ewing style)! Severe grinding and a complete rejection of the gear followed! At this point I was almost through the entire stretch, so I threw it back into 2nd and finished the run early in 3rd. Very pathetic. The result was a high 9. But the reasons make sense. As of recently, my drivetrain has been feeling more sloppy. Not in a trashy sort of way, but just some additional slack that I hadn't noticed before. Immediately, I thought of the motor and transmission mount suggestions made here and it made complete sense. Here are a couple videos of the runs just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsehBVHwXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6FR_7J_sM
Clutching in at high rpm during full throttle results on some significant movement in the drivetrain... And when drivetrain components are whiplashing, shifts tend not to line up very well. Talk about a complete loss of energy and power through the drivetrain. So with your suggestions and some personal research, I've decided to address the drivetrain and tighten it up to handle the current power level. I'm still doing a bit of research, but I think I will be going with Kartboy on the transmission mount and the pitch mount, and most likely doing the STI Group N motor mounts. I still have yet to install my Whiteline differential bushing inserts, so that should help a bit as well.
On to the power goals. It's simple... with the inherently tall gearing, I'm all-in for more highway pull! I've decided I want more horsepower that effectively builds to redline! Now don't get me wrong, it scoots. But I want more. My tuner, Shawn Church, has been kind enough to run a comparison dyno chart for me to look at. What you are about to see is my current tune vs an 09 wrx with a GT30 swap running a 3 inch inlet and maf. I'm under the assumption that it also has full exhaust and front mount, but unsure whether it's running equal lengths or not. If it isn't, then I'm going to expect a little earlier spool up when I go that route.
VF52 at 20 psi tune VS GT30r at 18 psi tune
The difference is staggering. The GT30 is a ball bearing turbo that is capable of making big power. The power level seen is easily accomplished by this turbo, and the torque has deliberately been reduced to prevent additional stress to the drivetrain. What's important when looking at these graphs is the area under the curve.
The effective RPM in a straight line race is the top end. The entire rev band only matters for the initial gear. Once you shift at 6000 rpm, the rpm drops only to about 4500 in the following gear and then it's back to climbing from there. So where my current tune will hold just over 300 whp from 4500-6000... The GT30 will continue building power until redline, making far better use of the rev band topping at 361 whp! Another point of note is the torque curve... While I made more torque, it was peaky and died just prior to 4500 rpm. The GT30 setup has a flatter and more effective torque curve.
So looking at the 4500-6500 portion of the rev band, it's very easy to see that the GT30 setup would simply jog away from my current set up. Additionally, keep in mind that the GT30 is hardly working here... It is capable of much more, but with stock internals planned, it wouldn't be a good idea to run it any higher. The best part of all, is that this additional power would mean no real additional stress to the motor than is currently being placed. As long as AFRs look good and detonation is kept at bay, it would be a very efficient setup!
The GT30 and stiffer drivetrain mounts/bushings would, however, result in some changes to driving habits. Spool up is later, so daily and mid-range driving will be effected somewhat. Also, I would have to be much more careful upon launching as there's less slack in the drivetrain. With a more direct energy transfer through the transmission, I need to be gentle on the clutch, introducing power moderately. Immediate, high-rpm clutch dumping will be completely out of the question. Once in gear and rolling on the highway, it won't be an issue.
So my parts list will look something like this:
Kartboy Pitch Stopper
Kartboy Transmission Mount
STI Group N Motor Mounts
GT30R Turbocharger
Agency Power 3-inch Hard Turbo Inlet Pipe
AMR Big MAF Intake system (if it will not interfere with FMIC piping)
Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
Please share your thoughts, suggestions and comments!
So I made a very disappointing trip to the local 1/8mi drag strip a few days ago. It was the first time I'd actually full blown launched and raced the car since the newest tune. The reason I say it was disappointing was because my ETs were slower, while making more power. Why, you ask? The answer is multifaceted.
Launching the car in the past has been troublesome, with loads of torque on tap, it's been a burden to prevent wheel spin and still accomplish a strong launch. With that in mind, I immediately lowered my tire pressures at the track. I dropped all 4 tires to 25 psi. Now bear in mind, the last time I was at the track, it was on 235 wide rubber... Not 255s. I should have thought of that before dropping the pressures so low. Obviously, unnecessarily low pressures create a lot of drag down the stretch once the vehicle has traction. Well, I adapted well throughout the night, cutting consistent low-1.9s, which are by no means GREAT launches. But considering they were rolled in at only 3500 rpm with a feathered off clutch, that's pretty good pick up! So with the launch down to a respectable 60ft slot, the trouble began.
I launched and ran the tach to 6500. Attempting to shift to second, I was rejected(Ewing style)! Severe grinding and a complete rejection of the gear followed! At this point I was almost through the entire stretch, so I threw it back into 2nd and finished the run early in 3rd. Very pathetic. The result was a high 9. But the reasons make sense. As of recently, my drivetrain has been feeling more sloppy. Not in a trashy sort of way, but just some additional slack that I hadn't noticed before. Immediately, I thought of the motor and transmission mount suggestions made here and it made complete sense. Here are a couple videos of the runs just for fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXsehBVHwXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl6FR_7J_sM
Clutching in at high rpm during full throttle results on some significant movement in the drivetrain... And when drivetrain components are whiplashing, shifts tend not to line up very well. Talk about a complete loss of energy and power through the drivetrain. So with your suggestions and some personal research, I've decided to address the drivetrain and tighten it up to handle the current power level. I'm still doing a bit of research, but I think I will be going with Kartboy on the transmission mount and the pitch mount, and most likely doing the STI Group N motor mounts. I still have yet to install my Whiteline differential bushing inserts, so that should help a bit as well.
On to the power goals. It's simple... with the inherently tall gearing, I'm all-in for more highway pull! I've decided I want more horsepower that effectively builds to redline! Now don't get me wrong, it scoots. But I want more. My tuner, Shawn Church, has been kind enough to run a comparison dyno chart for me to look at. What you are about to see is my current tune vs an 09 wrx with a GT30 swap running a 3 inch inlet and maf. I'm under the assumption that it also has full exhaust and front mount, but unsure whether it's running equal lengths or not. If it isn't, then I'm going to expect a little earlier spool up when I go that route.
VF52 at 20 psi tune VS GT30r at 18 psi tune
The difference is staggering. The GT30 is a ball bearing turbo that is capable of making big power. The power level seen is easily accomplished by this turbo, and the torque has deliberately been reduced to prevent additional stress to the drivetrain. What's important when looking at these graphs is the area under the curve.
The effective RPM in a straight line race is the top end. The entire rev band only matters for the initial gear. Once you shift at 6000 rpm, the rpm drops only to about 4500 in the following gear and then it's back to climbing from there. So where my current tune will hold just over 300 whp from 4500-6000... The GT30 will continue building power until redline, making far better use of the rev band topping at 361 whp! Another point of note is the torque curve... While I made more torque, it was peaky and died just prior to 4500 rpm. The GT30 setup has a flatter and more effective torque curve.
So looking at the 4500-6500 portion of the rev band, it's very easy to see that the GT30 setup would simply jog away from my current set up. Additionally, keep in mind that the GT30 is hardly working here... It is capable of much more, but with stock internals planned, it wouldn't be a good idea to run it any higher. The best part of all, is that this additional power would mean no real additional stress to the motor than is currently being placed. As long as AFRs look good and detonation is kept at bay, it would be a very efficient setup!
The GT30 and stiffer drivetrain mounts/bushings would, however, result in some changes to driving habits. Spool up is later, so daily and mid-range driving will be effected somewhat. Also, I would have to be much more careful upon launching as there's less slack in the drivetrain. With a more direct energy transfer through the transmission, I need to be gentle on the clutch, introducing power moderately. Immediate, high-rpm clutch dumping will be completely out of the question. Once in gear and rolling on the highway, it won't be an issue.
So my parts list will look something like this:
Kartboy Pitch Stopper
Kartboy Transmission Mount
STI Group N Motor Mounts
GT30R Turbocharger
Agency Power 3-inch Hard Turbo Inlet Pipe
AMR Big MAF Intake system (if it will not interfere with FMIC piping)
Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
Please share your thoughts, suggestions and comments!
Last edited by Boost Addict; 10-18-2009 at 02:29 AM.
10-18-2009, 09:53 AM
#96
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
10-19-2009, 08:34 AM
#97
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 31
Car Info: 09' WRX Hatch
Okay. How come no rotated kit? Again, I'm still learning, but I would think that going rotated would allow more expansion options in the future once a block is built.
I'm sure you have considered it, so if you could share your thoughts on the subject it would be appreciated.
Thanks bud,
-Kevin
I'm sure you have considered it, so if you could share your thoughts on the subject it would be appreciated.
Thanks bud,
-Kevin
10-22-2009, 04:38 AM
#98
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
I'd just like to keep things in the stock location at this point... That's why no rotated mount.
----Update----
Okay... Been doing a lot of research and trying to finalize my plans for the next step.
First and foremost, as if there wasn't enough confirmation from my recent drag trip, the mounts NEED to be changed. I've recently discovered a metallic rattle from my engine bay. After inspecting things, I've noticed that my spt turbo heatshield was bent back towards the AC lines and my transmission dipstick had popped out a tad and started rattling against the heatshield. So exciting!
So I bent the heatshield forward, pushed in the dipstick (that's what she said), and moved it out of the way (she might have said this too). Great! No more rattle... Then upon WOT in 2nd gear, and a shift to 3rd, I felt some lovely bubble gum mount lashing. A few minutes later, rattling ensued. Now it's getting really fun!
So I park, pop, and inspect. Sure enough. Heatshields moved again, and the dipstick is out. Ladies and Gentlemen, I consider this a problem. So I've narrowed my choices down somewhat. I'm ordering the Kartboy Pitch Stopper Mount, STI Group N Motor Mounts, and STI Group N Transmission Mount. I will also be deciding on a rear subframe lockdown kit, likely Whiteline or Perrin. Changing the mounts has gone from a mere 'suggestion' to a 'should be done'. Well, after today, it's become an absolute need!
---
Next, Boost wants more power... The GT30 graph looked pretty awesome vs my current one right? Well, I've been thinking... There are some things I'm sure of and some things I'm unsure of. Let's re-evaluate some things here.
I'm sure that I want:
- Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
Pros: More efficient cooling. Should provide a little gain in top end power. More consistent temps. Retains foglights. Future proof. Competitively priced and looks great!
Cons: Delayed spool up vs TMIC.
- Turbo XS Cold Air Intake
Pros: Cold air design. Clears Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler kit. Competitively priced and looks great!
Cons: Will have more resonant sound than the current Short Ram Intake. Blue silicone coupler will not match black couplers of FMIC kit.
- Turbo XS Dual Cat-Back Exhaust System
Pros: 3-inch mandrel bent with a flex joint in midpipe! Will alleviate some back-pressure, reducing some torque and providing better top end horsepower vs current 2.5" SPT cat back. Nice, subtle tips. Competitively priced!
Cons: Louder than SPT catback.
---
On to the turbo options I'm narrowed down to:
- ATP GT3071R ~$1700
Pros: 47lbs/min flow rate. Rated for up to 450whp. Great top-end power potential. Fast, ball bearing design! 2.5 inch reducer option. Future Proof.
Cons: Later spool up. High price. For best results, 3-inch inlet will require new Turbo Inlet Hose and larger MAF housing.
- APS SS45 ~$1300
Pros: 45lbs/min flow rate. Rated for 350whp. Utilizes stock 2.4" inlet and contains all oil lines. TD-06 20g w/ 8cm^3 housing. Early Spool. Competitively priced!
Cons: Sleeve Bearing. May not provide the amount of top end I'm looking for.
---
Ultimately, with the new turbo I'd like to see the car put down close to the 350 whp range on the dynapack we tune on. We've already seen that the GT30 can do it. Heck, it put down 365 at only 18psi, but at what cost? The turbo itself is significantly more expensive than the APS unit, but it is a great turbo, even for a built engine in the future! A ball bearing design means fast spool up for its size! However full spool wasn't seen until about 4100 rpm. The dyno shown was of a car fitted with a 3-inch turbo inlet hose and large MAF sensor housing. That's approximately another $600 in parts. The APS SS45 looks like a great performer based on it's manufacturers stats, but in application, results have varied. RallySportDirect tested this unit on an 08 STI. It put down around 300 whp on COBBs heartbreaker mustang dyno, where a stage 2 STI put down only 250 whp. So they basically showed a 50 whp gain and suggested that the 2.5-inch cat-back was a point of restriction at high rpm. GRD Tuning, another shop, showed results on a dynapack equaling 350 whp vs Cobbs Stage 2 which resulted in 305 whp on their dyno. That's a 45 whp gain over Cobb Stage 2, confirming RSD's results. An interesting fact is that GRD had custom tuned their Stage 2 to make 313 whp (exactly what I'm putting down). So the result of the SS45 was still 37 whp more than that! This shop also pointed at their cat back exhaust as the major point of restriction and backpressure. In their case, it was an HKS catback.
I've always been a believer of going with the right sized diameter exhaust piping. Going too large can eliminate back pressure so much that torque is hindered. Maybe the reason why my set-up wants to fly up to 380 ft lbs is due to the narrow collectors of the equal length header, the 2.5 diameter of my SPT cat-back, and my high flow cat. I've always been careful about not eliminating too much back pressure. Well, it appears that we're making too much torque as a result. I consider it too much at this level because of the amount of stress it can place on the drivetrain and the fact that we've had to deliberately delay spool to avoid the torque spike. With a clear abundance of torque, the intent now is to achieve more top end. By going with a full 3" cat-back, I am almost certain that we will see a drop in torque, but an increase of top end horsepower. If the front mount and 3" cat-back provides us with an additional 15 whp, then it will put us right around 330 whp. Holding a few additional pounds of boost in the top end is sure to add another 10-20 ponies on it's own, hopefully totaling close to 350 whp... We've all seen what the GT30r looks like in comparison to my graph. So let's see how far we can get with this slightly smaller turbo designed to utilize the stock inlet!
----Update----
Okay... Been doing a lot of research and trying to finalize my plans for the next step.
First and foremost, as if there wasn't enough confirmation from my recent drag trip, the mounts NEED to be changed. I've recently discovered a metallic rattle from my engine bay. After inspecting things, I've noticed that my spt turbo heatshield was bent back towards the AC lines and my transmission dipstick had popped out a tad and started rattling against the heatshield. So exciting!
So I bent the heatshield forward, pushed in the dipstick (that's what she said), and moved it out of the way (she might have said this too). Great! No more rattle... Then upon WOT in 2nd gear, and a shift to 3rd, I felt some lovely bubble gum mount lashing. A few minutes later, rattling ensued. Now it's getting really fun!
So I park, pop, and inspect. Sure enough. Heatshields moved again, and the dipstick is out. Ladies and Gentlemen, I consider this a problem. So I've narrowed my choices down somewhat. I'm ordering the Kartboy Pitch Stopper Mount, STI Group N Motor Mounts, and STI Group N Transmission Mount. I will also be deciding on a rear subframe lockdown kit, likely Whiteline or Perrin. Changing the mounts has gone from a mere 'suggestion' to a 'should be done'. Well, after today, it's become an absolute need!
---
Next, Boost wants more power... The GT30 graph looked pretty awesome vs my current one right? Well, I've been thinking... There are some things I'm sure of and some things I'm unsure of. Let's re-evaluate some things here.
I'm sure that I want:
- Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
Pros: More efficient cooling. Should provide a little gain in top end power. More consistent temps. Retains foglights. Future proof. Competitively priced and looks great!
Cons: Delayed spool up vs TMIC.
- Turbo XS Cold Air Intake
Pros: Cold air design. Clears Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler kit. Competitively priced and looks great!
Cons: Will have more resonant sound than the current Short Ram Intake. Blue silicone coupler will not match black couplers of FMIC kit.
- Turbo XS Dual Cat-Back Exhaust System
Pros: 3-inch mandrel bent with a flex joint in midpipe! Will alleviate some back-pressure, reducing some torque and providing better top end horsepower vs current 2.5" SPT cat back. Nice, subtle tips. Competitively priced!
Cons: Louder than SPT catback.
---
On to the turbo options I'm narrowed down to:
- ATP GT3071R ~$1700
Pros: 47lbs/min flow rate. Rated for up to 450whp. Great top-end power potential. Fast, ball bearing design! 2.5 inch reducer option. Future Proof.
Cons: Later spool up. High price. For best results, 3-inch inlet will require new Turbo Inlet Hose and larger MAF housing.
- APS SS45 ~$1300
Pros: 45lbs/min flow rate. Rated for 350whp. Utilizes stock 2.4" inlet and contains all oil lines. TD-06 20g w/ 8cm^3 housing. Early Spool. Competitively priced!
Cons: Sleeve Bearing. May not provide the amount of top end I'm looking for.
---
Ultimately, with the new turbo I'd like to see the car put down close to the 350 whp range on the dynapack we tune on. We've already seen that the GT30 can do it. Heck, it put down 365 at only 18psi, but at what cost? The turbo itself is significantly more expensive than the APS unit, but it is a great turbo, even for a built engine in the future! A ball bearing design means fast spool up for its size! However full spool wasn't seen until about 4100 rpm. The dyno shown was of a car fitted with a 3-inch turbo inlet hose and large MAF sensor housing. That's approximately another $600 in parts. The APS SS45 looks like a great performer based on it's manufacturers stats, but in application, results have varied. RallySportDirect tested this unit on an 08 STI. It put down around 300 whp on COBBs heartbreaker mustang dyno, where a stage 2 STI put down only 250 whp. So they basically showed a 50 whp gain and suggested that the 2.5-inch cat-back was a point of restriction at high rpm. GRD Tuning, another shop, showed results on a dynapack equaling 350 whp vs Cobbs Stage 2 which resulted in 305 whp on their dyno. That's a 45 whp gain over Cobb Stage 2, confirming RSD's results. An interesting fact is that GRD had custom tuned their Stage 2 to make 313 whp (exactly what I'm putting down). So the result of the SS45 was still 37 whp more than that! This shop also pointed at their cat back exhaust as the major point of restriction and backpressure. In their case, it was an HKS catback.
I've always been a believer of going with the right sized diameter exhaust piping. Going too large can eliminate back pressure so much that torque is hindered. Maybe the reason why my set-up wants to fly up to 380 ft lbs is due to the narrow collectors of the equal length header, the 2.5 diameter of my SPT cat-back, and my high flow cat. I've always been careful about not eliminating too much back pressure. Well, it appears that we're making too much torque as a result. I consider it too much at this level because of the amount of stress it can place on the drivetrain and the fact that we've had to deliberately delay spool to avoid the torque spike. With a clear abundance of torque, the intent now is to achieve more top end. By going with a full 3" cat-back, I am almost certain that we will see a drop in torque, but an increase of top end horsepower. If the front mount and 3" cat-back provides us with an additional 15 whp, then it will put us right around 330 whp. Holding a few additional pounds of boost in the top end is sure to add another 10-20 ponies on it's own, hopefully totaling close to 350 whp... We've all seen what the GT30r looks like in comparison to my graph. So let's see how far we can get with this slightly smaller turbo designed to utilize the stock inlet!
10-25-2009, 11:13 PM
#99
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
----Update----
Great News! Turbo XS is now on board as a one of our sponsors!
Confirmed Parts List:
Engine
- ATP GT3071R Turbocharger
- Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
- Turbo XS Cold Air Intake
- Turbo XS 3" Dual Cat-Back Exhaust
Drivetrain & Transmission
- Kartboy Rear Shifter Mount
- Kartboy Pitch Stop Mount
- STI Group N Motor Mounts
- STI Group N Transmission Mount
- Whiteline Rear Subframe to Chassis Bushings
Confirmed Goal: 350whp & 350wtq.
We've decided to go with the GT3071R Turbocharger for several reasons. While the APS SS45 appears to get close to the power goals we're looking for, it's really being maxed out at that point. This means in the future when we want to reach for more power, it's new turbo time. How about spool recovery between shifts? The Ball Bearing of the 30R is superior to the Sleeve Bearing design of the APS. While the 30R has a 3-in inlet, we aren't really expecting any restriction at 18psi by reducing it to 2.5-in. Spool up should be quick and effortless... We only anticipate the 2.5-in inlet to be a restriction once we up the boost higher and expect it to pull more air. So, the 30R sounds more like a future-proof set-up to us. Now it definitely comes at an additional cost, but we don't want to go through all this work and end up looking at another plateauing graph by maxing out the SS45... Conversely, the 30R menacingly climbs hard long past redline. So for those reasons, the GT3071R is being selected.
Great News! Turbo XS is now on board as a one of our sponsors!
Confirmed Parts List:
Engine
- ATP GT3071R Turbocharger
- Turbo XS Front Mount Intercooler
- Turbo XS Cold Air Intake
- Turbo XS 3" Dual Cat-Back Exhaust
Drivetrain & Transmission
- Kartboy Rear Shifter Mount
- Kartboy Pitch Stop Mount
- STI Group N Motor Mounts
- STI Group N Transmission Mount
- Whiteline Rear Subframe to Chassis Bushings
Confirmed Goal: 350whp & 350wtq.
We've decided to go with the GT3071R Turbocharger for several reasons. While the APS SS45 appears to get close to the power goals we're looking for, it's really being maxed out at that point. This means in the future when we want to reach for more power, it's new turbo time. How about spool recovery between shifts? The Ball Bearing of the 30R is superior to the Sleeve Bearing design of the APS. While the 30R has a 3-in inlet, we aren't really expecting any restriction at 18psi by reducing it to 2.5-in. Spool up should be quick and effortless... We only anticipate the 2.5-in inlet to be a restriction once we up the boost higher and expect it to pull more air. So, the 30R sounds more like a future-proof set-up to us. Now it definitely comes at an additional cost, but we don't want to go through all this work and end up looking at another plateauing graph by maxing out the SS45... Conversely, the 30R menacingly climbs hard long past redline. So for those reasons, the GT3071R is being selected.
10-30-2009, 07:22 PM
#100
VIP Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
So, I finally found some time to paint my rear diffuser section to a satin black to section off that area! I used Dupli-Color Bumper Coating (Black). 800 grit sand paper, some Stater Bros. Paper Bags and Some Masking tape!
A few pics of the process:
THE WRX WITHOUT ITS UNDERPANTS
MASKED OFF AND SANDED LIGHTLY WITH 800GRIT
SHOT WITH 5-6 LIGHT COATS OF BUMPER COATING
REMOVING THE MASKING
THE RESULTING FINISH, LOOKS GREAT!
CHECK IT OUT
SPORTING ITS NEW REAR END
Overall Impressions: Bumper removal was super simple. Just remove a few clips and pull. Hopefully the bumper coating lasts a while. It appears to be a very good quality paint(I intend to paint my new grille with the same paint once it arrives). I lightly sanded the clear coat prior to painting to promote adhesion. The paint lays very consistently and has a nice sprayer nozzle. While drying, it can appear dark and light, but you just gotta give it a chance to fully dry. It was dry to touch in 10 minutes after the last coat, and is looking great! I think it gives the car a wider appearance from the rear by slimming down its height. Also, the satin finish matches well with the graphics.
A few pics of the process:
THE WRX WITHOUT ITS UNDERPANTS
MASKED OFF AND SANDED LIGHTLY WITH 800GRIT
SHOT WITH 5-6 LIGHT COATS OF BUMPER COATING
REMOVING THE MASKING
THE RESULTING FINISH, LOOKS GREAT!
CHECK IT OUT
SPORTING ITS NEW REAR END
Overall Impressions: Bumper removal was super simple. Just remove a few clips and pull. Hopefully the bumper coating lasts a while. It appears to be a very good quality paint(I intend to paint my new grille with the same paint once it arrives). I lightly sanded the clear coat prior to painting to promote adhesion. The paint lays very consistently and has a nice sprayer nozzle. While drying, it can appear dark and light, but you just gotta give it a chance to fully dry. It was dry to touch in 10 minutes after the last coat, and is looking great! I think it gives the car a wider appearance from the rear by slimming down its height. Also, the satin finish matches well with the graphics.
11-13-2009, 01:31 AM
#102
VIP Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
---Quick Update---
We've made a turbo selection... The New Blouch Dominator 3.0 XT-R.
- The Dom 3.0 XT-R utilizes a large 10cm2 turbine housing! This usually equates to more power potential, but later spool.
- To combat the later spool, Blouch is now using custom in-house billet compressor wheel that is almost 1/3 lighter than the previous Dom 3.0Rs and has improved aerodynamic qualities. These advancements add up to an even quicker spool potential than before.
- Regarding spool up; Mike at Blouch told me over the phone that supporting mods and tuning go a long way in determining how this turbo will spool on your individual application. With tuners now playing with AVCS, spool up can be seen anywhere between 3600-4200RPM.
- Power potential is huge! For comparison of flow rates: The GT3071R flows at 47 lbs/min, the GT3076R flows at 52 lbs/min, the previous Dom 3.0 at 52 lbs/min, and the Dom 3.0 XT-R flows at 55 lbs/min.
- More power with less relative stress to the motor. Currently with a vf52 wheezing at 21psi we're slamming 365 ft-lbs of torque through the flat 4. However, up top, it simply plateaus early and refuses to make any more horsepower. The Dom 3.0 XT-R is expected to make greater power, at higher RPM, with less boost! Speaking with my tuner, he mentioned that if we're able to hold 350 wtq to 6000 rpm, we can expect the horsepower numbers to be close to 400 whp on pump gas! While the expectations may be optimistic, they may not be too far off the truth. The result would be ripping highway pull, less overall stress to the motor, and hopefully an early enough spool to retain some decent mid-range power.
- Stock location bolt-on. Now keep in mind, it's not a direct swap in if you have retained a Top Mount Intercooler as the compressor outlet is not 2-bolt flanged like the stock unit. You will need to run a Front Mount Intercooler for this turbo. Not a problem for us. Now some of you may already know, some of the larger turbos require some shaving of the block to accommodate the new housing. Mike of Blouch, however, mentioned that he has not heard back anything regarding poor fitment. So it may be possible that this will bolt on without issue!
While we don't anticipate running into any major issues, there can always be challenges when stepping up to a turbo of this potential. We plan to retain the stock turbo inlet hose and are not too concerned about the inlet diameter. This turbo was designed to mate right to it. What we are rather concerned about is that we may max out the MAF. So, before hitting the dyno for tuning, we're looking into larger MAF housing options. What a larger MAF housing will provide us with is the ability to more finely tune the car by receiving more accurate readings from the MAF sensor.
We are really looking forward to seeing just what we can accomplish with this great new offering from Blouch!
----
Here's something to chew on:
A Lamborghini Gallardo put down 404whp on Church's DynaPack tonight...
...call it a stretch target.
11-15-2009, 08:42 PM
#103
VIP Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
I will have a more in-depth update once we get our new turbo, fmic, bpv, intake, etc installed and re-tuned. But the TurboXS CatBack is on and sounds awesome!
Form & Fitment: First and foremost the pipes are VERY large in diamter! The y-pipe is very smooth and flow-oriented in design, despite the angle of the photo on TurboXS's website that makes it look aggressively Tee-d off. Fitment was exactly dead on. It installed without headache. The heatshield above the mid-pipe needed to be removed to prevent banging against the large pipe. The tips extend out just enough to fit visually flush in relation to the rear bumper openings.
Quality: It's a gorgeous piece! It's all polished from the first flange all the way to the tips! The flanges are super thick, and welded on nicely! The construction of this piece can warrant no complaints! The mufflers are nicely branded with TurboXS's marque and appear to be of very nice quality. The included gaskets were also of very high quality!
Sound: Is it loud? It has presence. Is it tolerable? Absolutely. Does it drone? Yes, at highway speeds, if you decelerate in gear, you will hear a soft drone. While it's not headache inducing, it will be present to the critical ear. I've put about 500 miles on this Cat Back so far and have no complaints. The sound at first start up was slightly metallic and hollow. It has since been 'broken in' with enough soot to mellow out the 'tinny' resonance and add some depth to the sound quality. The sound, for the most part, is still very manageable by your throttle pedal. high load? Expect high volume... Cruising? Expect it to be mellow.
Conclusion: At the end of the day, TurboXS has put out a very high-quality product that has exceeded my expectations. The details in the design and super high-quality construction have won me over. I appreciate the large-diameter mandrel bent pipes that intentionally carry out the exhaust gases through the path of least restriction. This design success can be especially seen in the y-section. The sound commands a serious presence with a well-tuned growl. It can be controlled at part throttle, but is absolutely intoxicating during flat out sprints to redline.
NOTE: I am running an Equal Length Header. If you are running an unequal length(oem style) header, you can expect a deeper, lower frequency sound.
Video of the very first Start Up:
Treble Racing's 08 WRX - TurboXS Cat-Back Exhaust + ELH + DP (First Start Up)
Will post some pictures later comparing it to the SPT.
Form & Fitment: First and foremost the pipes are VERY large in diamter! The y-pipe is very smooth and flow-oriented in design, despite the angle of the photo on TurboXS's website that makes it look aggressively Tee-d off. Fitment was exactly dead on. It installed without headache. The heatshield above the mid-pipe needed to be removed to prevent banging against the large pipe. The tips extend out just enough to fit visually flush in relation to the rear bumper openings.
Quality: It's a gorgeous piece! It's all polished from the first flange all the way to the tips! The flanges are super thick, and welded on nicely! The construction of this piece can warrant no complaints! The mufflers are nicely branded with TurboXS's marque and appear to be of very nice quality. The included gaskets were also of very high quality!
Sound: Is it loud? It has presence. Is it tolerable? Absolutely. Does it drone? Yes, at highway speeds, if you decelerate in gear, you will hear a soft drone. While it's not headache inducing, it will be present to the critical ear. I've put about 500 miles on this Cat Back so far and have no complaints. The sound at first start up was slightly metallic and hollow. It has since been 'broken in' with enough soot to mellow out the 'tinny' resonance and add some depth to the sound quality. The sound, for the most part, is still very manageable by your throttle pedal. high load? Expect high volume... Cruising? Expect it to be mellow.
Conclusion: At the end of the day, TurboXS has put out a very high-quality product that has exceeded my expectations. The details in the design and super high-quality construction have won me over. I appreciate the large-diameter mandrel bent pipes that intentionally carry out the exhaust gases through the path of least restriction. This design success can be especially seen in the y-section. The sound commands a serious presence with a well-tuned growl. It can be controlled at part throttle, but is absolutely intoxicating during flat out sprints to redline.
NOTE: I am running an Equal Length Header. If you are running an unequal length(oem style) header, you can expect a deeper, lower frequency sound.
Video of the very first Start Up:
Treble Racing's 08 WRX - TurboXS Cat-Back Exhaust + ELH + DP (First Start Up)
Will post some pictures later comparing it to the SPT.
11-15-2009, 09:11 PM
#104
VIP Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
As promised, here are some pictures during the install, compared to the SPT.
True 3" Internal Diameter and a stress reducing flex bend at the downpipe mating flange.
TurboXS's stunning mirror polished finished. Should match their Front Mount Piping well
The TurboXS has less bends and appears more progressive in flow.
Smooth flowing Y-Section!
Diameter difference.
Mounted up. Y-Section.
Mounted up. Driver's Side Muffler.
True 3" Internal Diameter and a stress reducing flex bend at the downpipe mating flange.
TurboXS's stunning mirror polished finished. Should match their Front Mount Piping well
The TurboXS has less bends and appears more progressive in flow.
Smooth flowing Y-Section!
Diameter difference.
Mounted up. Y-Section.
Mounted up. Driver's Side Muffler.
11-15-2009, 09:41 PM
#105
VIP Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 846
Car Info: 08 WRX - 401whp/408wtq
As promised, here are some pictures during the install, compared to the SPT.
True 3" Internal Diameter and a stress reducing flex bend at the downpipe mating flange.
TurboXS's stunning mirror polished finished. Should match their Front Mount Piping well
The TurboXS has less bends and appears more progressive in flow.
Smooth flowing Y-Section!
Diameter difference.
Mounted up. Y-Section.
Mounted up. Driver's Side Muffler.
True 3" Internal Diameter and a stress reducing flex bend at the downpipe mating flange.
TurboXS's stunning mirror polished finished. Should match their Front Mount Piping well
The TurboXS has less bends and appears more progressive in flow.
Smooth flowing Y-Section!
Diameter difference.
Mounted up. Y-Section.
Mounted up. Driver's Side Muffler.