I dont think they are trying to prove tuners. It's more of a grudge match now

Joe, better loose some pounds...Alex doesnt look that heavy. LOL

-freddie

 

Sorry to bring this back up again but I have finally read the whole thread.

First, I wasnt at the shootout, but I recall reading that Shiv went first and Bill went last. On a very hot day with no fans, the time period between the two runs could have had a great deal to do with the detonation. Even with a cool down run, Bill was probably working with a much more heatsoaked car then Shiv was.

Second, what good does a basemap ECU reflash do? If there is going to be a comparason between tuners products, it should be between the products the customer leaves the tuner with. Who would buy just a stock basemap and not get it tuned? I know that you cant even do that at i-speed, their reflash comes with, if im not mistaken, either 1 hour of dyno tuning or 2 hours of road tuning. The test should include a run at the baseline map and then another 2 or 3 runs to allow the tuner to work out any problems with the basemap. That, in my mind, would produce the best results to allow for a judgement of the best tuner. All this test has done is test for the product.

And finally, there needs to be more specific rules as to determine what exactly makes you win. Peak HP anf TQ numbers really dont mean much, the A/F ratio, knock, and the powerband as a whole should be taken into account to determine the winner. Possibly even a winner should not be declared, display the dyno plots of all the factors and let the consumer decide for themselves who they think is the best tuner and who they would choose to tune their cars.

 

No fans? I recall seeing 3. Heatsoak isn't an issue when there are 10-15 minutes between ECU tests. FWIW, even with 1 minute cool down periods between runs, the dyno results (on the same ECU were repeatable and consistent.

My 2c,
Shiv
________
Roor Bong

 

Im not trying to take anything away from you Shiv, clearly in these conditions your base map ECU was the best. However, I was just suggesting maybe another test that measures tuning ability as opposed to who has the best baseline product. And as far as the fans go, like I said, I wasnt there so I really dont know, all I saw was that smaller one that you brought from your shop.

 

It's so funny how multiple fans can magically disappear as the story gets told...

dyno conditions, important facts, and the story in general really seemed to get distorted somehow. one could almost imply that some people are trying to make certain companies look bad.

 

just incase you forgot.........

 

My point exactly.

The event was organized by someone. The event went well. Then, before that someone posts the results, bunch of monkeys that were not even there, jump to conclusions. Then other monkeys, read "jumped" conclusions and give their conclusions to people.

At the end, there is a whole bunch of misinformation brought to you by those who have really nothing to do with it.

Victories get assigned. Foes get labeled. Everyone pissed off.

Did not you guys notice that i-Speed even once "accepted" the victory that monkeys assigned to them? Doesn't that tell that even they are waiting for the official results?

Now, there are fans disappearing.

 

the problem with that is that having the best baseline product has everything to do with who is the "best" tuner. rigging up some wacky setup on a wrx and seeing who can tune it the best would make no sense because you'd have to limit the amount of dyno runs each tuner could take. and more than likely it would take all day. what each of these tuners hope to do is provide well thought out packages that increase the performance of the car as a whole. therefore each tuner will choose whatever parts they deem necessary to acheive their goal and then tune the spark, fuel, and boost to safely accommodate those modifications.

if you are still bent on finding out who is the "best" tuner, the best thing to do would be to pick packages from each tuner that are in the same price ranges and test them head to head in a scientifically controlled manner. from there, an educated and unbiased party (if there is such a thing) could help interpret the results.

what we are talking about will also take quite a bit of resources (time, effort, and money) from an unbiased party to make this happen.

one last thing to keep in mind is that tuning is not the mysterious witchcraft that people seem to expect. it is entirely possible that more than one tuner can tune any given engine setup to within a very close percentage of what it is capable of. it is not rocket science, it is not witchcraft, it is a skill that is acquired through experience.

 

I understand what you are saying. The thing is that, i think this is what I was told, when you get the ECUTek from i-speed, it comes with an hour of dyno tuning or 2 hours of street tuning. That is part of the package and should be considered when comparaing the product that you get from the vendor.

 

I don't agree that this was ever a test of specific-car/custom tuning ability. I DO believe that it should be a "product" tune - what you would get for the base price of the reflash ($650 ECUTEK, 400 ACCESSECU). From that standpoint, Cobb and Vishnu should NOT get any custom tune time, as they are mailorder baseline products, and I-Speed really should have had an hour on the dyno. Those are the retail packages as-sold.

To that end, IMO Vishnu and i-speed were both at a big disadvantage - Shiv is known to dislike tuning on non-Vishnu cars, and if I'm not mistaken, in a retail situation he wouldn not claim "no-ping, no-problem" for that particular test car with its particular mods. I-speed as stated before didn't get the 1-hour custom tune the offer with the package. Cobb is the only vendor who advertises Stage-1 as compatible with any non-dp exhaust system.

 

No offense, but I think you just haven't spent enough time here. Sure things get heated, but in the end, people just like to talk, and nobody is getting bent out of shape

Chill out, have a beer, relax!

 

Hey Bill,

We're trying to start a flame war here, and you comewaltzing in your your hoity-toity reason and logic and defuse everything! :P

For shame!

 

I couldn't agree more. Bravo sir.