Contact rallywagon if you're serious about this.

http://www.openroadracing.com/

Read up on it, enter it, do it, and let us know how it felt.

 

that is a ticket that would easily be won in court given the average speed on the cali freeways is what? 75-85? Thats a very poor example you used there.

I think it might need to be stated that this law doesnt have any impact on you going 100+ by yourself....thats already been a felony for a long time. This also doesnt impact leaving a stop sign/light faster than the pinto next to you. If a cop wants to pull you over, hes going to find a reason no matter what.

 

That is awesome!!! I wish they had that around here.

 

they can do it in nevada cause theres no one there to begin with

 

You think an American judge is going to consider/care what the average freeway speed is? If he does, how will you prove it?

If you fight it you are openly stating that the police officer is wrong and/or has bad judgement. Why would the judge believe you, especially if you have any kind of traffic offenses on your record.





So you are saying that going 10 miles an hour over the limit should be considered okay, therefore grounds for dismissal, for a racing offense (In the eyes of the judge). Would you use this same defense for a speeding offense?

You speak like you have expirience, have you been to traffic court? (I haven't)

 

The slippery slope arguement is never a stable platform to argue upon. Just because there is a grey area, doesn't mean that the worst is always going to happen all the time. It may happen from time to time, but take it to court and then the grey area gets defined and then its no longer a grey area.

If it becomes a felony, it is no longer just traffic court. You should be getting a jury trial and if that's the case, then you are innocent until proven guilty, and it would be up to the officer to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that you were actually racing and not just speeding.

For the most part, I still think this is a good law. If it'll cut down on idiots street racing, then I'm all for it. As long as innocent people (or relatively innocent people who with minor traffic violations) don't get unfairly penalized then its all good, and I don't think those people will get unfairly penalized. Let's ***** about that when it happens, not just on supposition that it might happen.

 

It just seems to me that the racers wont here about this, or they wont care/ will run from the police creating a more dangerous situation. These laws seem to be making felons out of innocent people. If people are street racing there is a whole serious of laws you can get them for. This just seems to be a law that is redundant and vauge over what constitutes racing.

 

Please explain how this new law could possibly cut down on idiots street racing. There are plenty of laws in place for that already - the problem (for the police) is that people have to be caught in the act. If someone is caught street racing, I imagine the fines and penalties could be very serious, as they should be. Taking that decision out of the courts and into the hands of your average police officer will only cause these 'profiling' and 'illegal mods' type problems to get even worse as in British Banger's example.

Again, sure, maybe you can turn it around in court - but I venture a guess that a huge percentage shouldn't have to in the first place.

The grey areas are in place for a reason, so that when someone gets charged with something serious, they can tack all kinds of other things on pulled straight from the grey area that can be dropped when they hire a lawyer. The end result is that they simply get charged for what they actually did which should be able to happen without wasting people's time and money (people = accused, jury, lawyer, judge, police, everyone involved). It's a nicely crafted system - you get charged for one major thing and get say 4 smaller items that your lawyer can pick off leaving you with the original offense. If they just charged the single item, the lawyer could spend all his resources fighting that - and possibly win. This way, the lawyer gets paid, judges and juries have something to do, and the person actually goes down for what they were intended to be charged with.

I realize this is all speculation, but I firmly believe this will primarily affect the wrong group of drivers.

 

It's not a slippery slope, it's already happened. I've heard stories, granted they were not first hand accounts, of people getting tickets for racing for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. In hindsight that person was lucky; they got charged with a 3 point offense, nowadays they would get a felony charge, Yay California legal system!!

I don't see the abuse of this new power being a possibility, but rather an inevitability. The legal system in this country is a complete failure. Violent criminals are being let out of prison so that non-violent criminals can be placed in prison, everybody is guilty unless they can afford a really expensive lawyer. The gray area is determined my the size of your pockets. Having the case tried in a criminal court is no better than being tried in a traffic court. You trust a jury? Go to a local hang out and pick out 12 random people, do you trust them enough to put a potentially life changing decision in their hands?

I think you have a bit too much trust in the legal system.

 

I'm actually somewhere in the middle between your cynicism and probably where you think I am. I'm not very trusting of the legal system either, but its not evil, its stupid and self serving and there is a big difference. You have to understand how it works, rather then just lashing out at "the man" whenever a new law gets passed.

Yes, the enforcement system has a big problem with intrepretation, but its not as bad as you think. Most law enforcement officers aren't just pigs out to screw up peoples lives (some are, for sure, but a lot aren't as well). Some times, its just an honest mistake, some times not.

Making this a felony, though, turns catching street racers from being revenue gathering offense to a criminal offense. Now, you can't just pay a fine to get out of it, so cops aren't going to be enforcing this when their budgets are running low. Its also going to force the cops to build a case. You can't be given a felony by a cop, you can only be arrested and given a date for a trial. And the cop will have to at least attempt to prove there was a race involved and it wasn't a hundred other minor traffic offenses (of which, you don't get thrown in jail for).

And yes, I do trust 12 strangers too stupid to get out of jury duty versus a crooked cop. Do you really think that 12 people will convict you under this new street racing law because you were driving 75mph on the freeway? Hell, those people probably drove 10 over to get to the court. Come to think of it, the cop probably won't even arrest you for street racing in that scenario, cause it'll personally do them better to pull over two speeders and get some money and quotas filled that way.

So, yeah, I'll wait until the first person not street racing whom gets thrown in jail, then I'll complain. Until then, the new law itself isn't bad in and of itself. The people actually convicted of this crime, will probably actually be guilty of it. And for that, I have no problem with street racers getting locked up.

 

Also, one more thing to note

It only becomes a felony charge if another person is injured.

So, suprise, suprise, everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over what is pretty much a good idea. I'm still reading the rest of the new law to see if any more (heavy fines) were also tacked on -- which is kind of BS.

Link for the lazy, if you anyone wants to actually read it themselves.
http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/bill/a...chaptered.html

 

This is not "getting panties in a bunch" which to me is what someone says about the other party when they don't have a compelling argument to put forth. This is people who are actually concerned about a law that could have adverse affects on everyday people without intent to street race. Maybe, we would like to consider this now instead of waiting until it's too late - until the reports of people being "in the wrong place at the wrong time" start flowing in. I hope it never gets there, but history here in the Bay has shown us otherwise.

 

Yeah, the ad hom attack was a little uncalled for, but it really doesn't invalidate the rest of my points. There is a difference between having foresight, and being unnecessiarly paranoid. In my opinion, worrying about this law is very much the latter. I applaud the effort for people to try and keep a look out for rights, but this law certainly isn't one to worry about. Just because it sounds bad, doesn't mean it is bad. People can't just rail against laws on gut feeling, but rather should sit down and really think about it before passing judgement. All in all, all this law is doing is modifying the penalties for injuring someone while driving recklessly. Its not even making it easier to arrest people, its just changing the penalties for the crime.

And for that, I continue to applaud this law, as all it really does is lock up convicted reckless drivers for a little bit longer, and removes their right to vote (and other rights that felons lose).

 

I'd like it in Cali

no events coming up soon either

 

I'm not paranoid, anti big brother, delusional, pro Micheal Moore, or anything like that. I just think that it's ignorant to think that the government has your best interests in mind. *Takes off tin foil hat*

Your 3rd paragraph makes sense, but it seems like it belongs in a 1960's musical. It's lovely to think about, but a bit too positive, dare I say it, unrealistic? I've met some very intelligent, polite, down to earth cops. I've also met some of the biggest douchebags out there. As far as my percieved percentages go, most cops are not out to do good, even if they don't realize it.

I'm working on getting my panties unbunched, but any law that has the RISK of criminalizing potentially good drivers (Especially to such an extreme) for doing nothing wrong really pisses me off. Like many people on this forum have said before, the government needs to concentrate on raising driving standards instead of focusing on smaller problems. I believe that more driving related deaths occur from "Americans driving like Americans" than street racing.