Concillian

iTrader: (2)

STi / RA gears are like a marginal improvement kind of thing. like +20% maybe. It's cheaper, but if you're at a limit of the gears you're really just buying a bit of margin, where the 6 speed route is a complete solution.

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I am sure that is true, and there is no question that the "right" thing to do is to go for the 6spd swap. For me right now though, it's the difference between being able to use my car again or not. I cannot afford potentially $8k-$10k worth of work, surprise headaches, and months of trauma. Sadly it's not really about what "should" be done at this point. I am trying to save my WRX from turning into a Yaris, because doing it "right" is pretty much impossible for me right now.

I fully intend to get the 6speed swap going, but - I am experienced enough to know that I should not try to do this when I cannot afford it, or with a "daily driver" type of car, which my WRX is. Now that it is down, I am relying on my Justy - which is not a reliable car. If I do this right, I could be comfortably shopping for the perfect 6speed and collecting the parts next year, and at the same time have a freshly rebuilt 5speed w/ Type STi gears, that I can sell. I have been flat-out shocked at the resale value of even a trashed 5speed these days. Seems, in part, due to this: Project-818.

As I understand, they currently cannot use the 6spd, so people who are actively using this platform prefer a blown 5spd, so that it can be rebuilt as a known quantity, and of course keeping a spare on-hand is essential.

During my search for a transmission, I was finding WRX 5spds for higher asking prices than STi 6spds. This doesn't make any sense to me, but - this is what I found. I got a quote to have my trans rebuilt for "$700 plus parts" and thought after some research that the STi gears would at least be better than the stock 2002 WRX setup, and since I am spending the money anyway, potentially more valuable than a standard WRX rebuild, when it comes time to sell it.

This was really interesting to me as well, since I have an early 2002: FAQ: Comparison of Subaru Gear Sets, WRX, Legacy GT, STI RA, and more...

I have had two car projects fold up and turn sour because I tried to do what was right, even when I could not afford it - and I really don't want that to happen here. So, my thought was to do the next best thing - that is within my means - and then plan for the 6speed down the road. I truly did not realize it would be such an expensive undertaking. I have not found an '06+ STi trans for less than $3k, and that was the cheapest one. None are local, so it's a gamble. Plus shipping, and everything else. Currently, I have to pay to have everything done on my car since I cannot work on it where I live. This would be a whole different thing if I had a garage again (so I tell myself, ha!).

Anyway, it's definitely not the best choice, or what I prefer to do, but I don't have too many options right now. For some reason, I thought I could get a 6speed into my car for around $5k, but that is just not the case. I cannot afford more right now. If I press for the 6speed right now, my car will sit and then ultimately need to be transformed into something useful, and that would be sad.

ddavis

iTrader: (4)

If money is an issue you could reuse your rear and axles for now and upgrade that later like I was mentioning. Personally that seems like a better way to go to me then to spend money on upgrading a 5 speed that you want to upgrade later to a 6 speed anyways. Im running 415whp/450wtq with no issues yet on my rear. I wont be upgrading until I have a problem.

Heres what I spent on mine, not sure where your estimates are coming from.

06 tranny w/shifter - $2500 used
2 axle stubs - $83 new
2 circlips -$0.90 new
seals & seal puller -$30 new
DCCD pro w/ sti switches - $545 new
6 speed tranny mount - $85 new
Gear Oil - $97 new
Auto Driveshaft - Used $50
Random wires, parts - $30

Total - $3420.90 & thats after shipped & taxes

I did the labor myself over a weekend that saved me a bit. But you could also wire in a dccd later on also to save you that up front or go with a manual version without the sti switches. Its not a must have when your installing. If you have any interest in going to a 6 speed I dont see dropping that amount of money on a 5 speed only to switch it out again later in the future, just my 2 cents.

Also try checking salvage yards for a trans. You will get the best deal through them. I got mine through oak leaf auto salvage, might want to try giving them a call.

Brfatal

What gears does your '02 have? AA or BA?

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I really appreciate the info you provided, and the suggestions you have made. I agree that the right thing to do here is to go for a 6speed. If I take that route, and things go wrong, I will need to give up my car. I do not feel like taking that risk right now when I can get it on the road for less than the list of parts I need to get.

Yes, money is essentially "the" issue right now - new kid, wife has been off work, demanding job, travel, lots of mechanical failures, blahh blahh. If I had a garage or a place to work on it, it might be possible but that's a huge stretch for me right now with a job that requires most of my time, and family.

Heh - my research and decisions here are as a result of me starting the process of doing this. I usually use car-part.com to search salvage yards and go from there. That's awesome that you were able to find a usable '06 STi tranny for $2,500, but I was not able to do so. There are some shady ones near and below that price, thousands of miles away, that if I feel like gambling, I could pull the trigger on. I have spoken to a few people with transmissions for sale at this point. The only one I have found locally is a JDM setup, not including Brembos, asking $4,500. Maybe that's just a "stupid inflated CL price" but I do not want to start a transaction for an expensive, complicated device that is unknown with someone who starts the process by trying to rip someone off.

I have had issues before buying used parts over the years and cannot afford to deal with anything like that right now, and I cannot find one transmission locally, so shipping needs to be added to the cost. If you have ever bought a used transmission and had it not work right, then you will know exactly what I am talking about. If not, then I appreciate your understanding.

Estimates of total cost are a combination of things ranging from estimates for labor from mechanics to online quotes, and reading about other's going through the same process. Please keep in mind that due to my current situation, I will need to pay standard labor rates for any and all of this work.

If I start this process, and run out of money9/10ths of the way through, I am screwed. It will be very easy to get seriously expensive here having a shop do a custom job. Back in the day I did all my work myself, and I said the same things you are saying right now to people who were where I am right now.

The last few things I have tried to have done on my cars at shops have gone wildly out of control and over budget. It seems like this is fairly normal. I am talking about a quote for $1,600 that turns into $5,500 before I even know it.

Honestly the best deal I found was Flatironstuning's swap kit which includes a brand new '07 STi 6spd, and the needed parts to get it into my '02 (minus shifter, driveshaft and such) for $4,200 plus tax and shipping.

With my research, estimates, and "edumacated guess" calculations, I estimated that I could be nearly $5k into this before a wrench gets turned. I have been through these sorts of things before starting around 2008 when I had to start paying for labor, with my '04 VW R32, '68 Austin Mini, '73 240Z (w/ EFI 327), '02 SAAB Aero Wagon, and now my WRX. In every single case the end result was wildly more expensive than any estimate that I was given or calculated on my own. I cannot afford that sort of thing right now and am smart enough to see that. I feel that trying to start this process right now when I am worried that I cannot afford it, would be dumb.

Also, this 5spd job will get my car on the road again, and when I have the time and money to do this, I can take the time to do it right AND have a useful transmission to sell to recover costs.

Not trying to be argumentative - I really do not see how I could do this for the same costs you did, in my situation, based on seeing how much parts costs and doing math. Also, based on my experience with things like this over the last two decades, I am sure that I could not get it all done in one weekend - if I even had that option. There is always something, a broken piece, or something. Always. It's awesome that it worked out so well for you, but things have not always been so easy when I have taken on these tasks and I have done probably 20 clutch swaps in my garage and driveways of the past. Even with r/r'ing the same part from the car it came in, stuff comes up. I will need to pay dearly for this "stuff" currently.

You also left out a couple parts, as you need to work out the clutch (use WRX w/ 6spd fork, or get an STi clutch setup). If I knew I could do it for those costs you mentioned, even waiting on the DCCD, I would do it. Currently, I am looking at getting my car back on the road for less than the price of those parts, total.

Maybe I am just doing it wrong.

Not sure, but I know my car is a very early '02. I can have a look at the bellhousing next time I have it on the rack, unless this is written somewhere else.

ddavis

iTrader: (4)

I had a rps clutch already upgraded when running my 5 speed which would be an additional cost if you need one. Sounds like you have giving this alot of thought and got it all figured out. Only you know your current situation and what problems you need to take care of. Best of luck on getting your car sorted out and back on the road.

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I probably should have done all this research before making my post, but I really did not think it all the way through insofar as my financial situation. I was just focused on getting the car going, and doing it right - not wasting time with the 5spd. After doing the math, leaning towards a perceived worst-case scenario, I'm scurred, based on past experiences.

I sincerely appreciate your and everyone's help with the info and details.

I have a RPS Streetmax w/ about 7k miles on it... I guess that is also part of my issue - my car has had the tranny out already once in the last 12 months, as well as the fuel tank and a brake m/c swap and.. and... and... Just picked my Justy up from it's latest clutch job. Can't take much more of this haha...

So that clutch should do the trick? I have heard it would work, and it's around ~10mm smaller. No issues? That would be nice.

STi-owns-evo

iTrader: (4)

Just saw this, since I'm looking for a car for a friend. For the $10k you were estimating getting a 6-speed in, you could buy a WRX with a 6 speed in it, lol

2005 subaru wrx wagonq

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

I don't think I said I estimated that it would cost $10k to "get a 6speed in" as you say. I think I said that it could end up costing between $8k-$10k, and I still believe that to be accurate. It's difficult to find folks who have paid to have this done that are interested in talking about how much this costs. The last one I looked at tallied the costs very nicely, and it came out to just under $8,400, and that was with $1,200 labor. My labor estimate was around $2k, but could creep up to $3k depending on issues with the car, or how much was being swapped. In no case has the final cost of a job been the same as the estimate, mostly because things come up along the way.

If you think you can take a list of parts, add up the costs and come up with a real estimate for the total job, well - I'll just say, that has never been my experience, with many cars for many years.

It looks like some folks have done it themselves and have had really good luck with that. In most cases, finding the parts at such a low cost took weeks. The job itself took several days, in a garage, with tools and a place to leave the car torn apart which I do not have. Cost is not always dollars, and I cannot afford weeks of searching and several days of working on my car (even if I had a place to work on it), let alone the chance that I will go drastically over budget and have a car that is not useful for a new and more stupid reason.

Others have paid a shop to do the work, and most of those people don't want to talk about it. It seems like with enough patience, one could do the work for around $3k. In every case, the final number was brought down by re-selling the 5spd and related items, which I cannot do with a blown tranny. I have seen some really low cost claims of doing this, but a lot of these are also from the sort of people that say they are getting 37mpg in a modded WRX (i.e., bad at math and correctness and stuff).

I cannot find the parts for less than ~$5k with my actual searching and phone calls. If you add my labor estimate in there, it's getting close.

Also, I did not realize there was such an issue with the '04-'05 5th and 6th synchros (I think aboothman mentioned this earlier in this thread, but I didn't realize the gravity of the situation). That makes the '06-'07 even more of a better idea. I found very little '06-'07 STi transmissions for sale in the time I was searching. I found one for $3k, and another for $3.5k, both across the country and plus shipping. I have found a few cheaper, but they are from (seemingly) shady sellers, and often do not include the shifter, linkage, or much else but the gearbox itself, with mileage unknown or based on what someone said they think it had. One was not sure if it was an '04 or '06 tranny and the distinction is pretty important when it's a couple thousand dollars (for me anyway).

I don't really have time or money to do this, and my transmission making really expensive noises was expected, but not this soon. I still think Flatirons Tuning setup for a brand new '07 gearbox plus the stubs and such for $4,200 is the best deal I can find, since it's a brand new gearbox. It's expensive, but so is this whole project - and let me say it sucks a lot to find out that you need to start over because you tried to save $1k, which is really a fraction of the cost... And, I am going to spend thousands of dollars, and re-use my smaller WRX clutch/flywheel? Well, no - so that is + at least another $1k.

The only STi 6speed I was serious about purchasing so far was out in Tracy a few years back when I was doing my swap. He wanted $2100 and it was an '05 box from a car that was rear-ended, doing an LS1 swap or something in the salvage chassis. When I pulled up to the place, the tranny was on it's bellhousing and there were dudes hammering on the yoke that was literally jammed onto the output shaft. Obviously I walked away from that one. I seriously do not want to buy a large chunk of useless metal for a couple thousand dollars. After that experience, having one shipped sight unseen from across the country from someone who seems unsure of what he has does not sound wise.

If I find an '06 STi 6speed for $2,500 then, sweet - I will buy it if I can at the time. Like I said, if I could purchase the parts (working, usable parts) for the prices shown by ddavis, I would go ahead and do it even if it meant my car had to sit a bit until I saved for the labor.

Actually looking at leasing a cheap car so that my WRX can take as long as it takes, and I will have the "reliable transportation" that my life requires. Honda is advertising Civic sedans for $159/mo and I could do that for a year for what I have paid on my Justy's last trip to the shop (clutch job, etc etc etc).

kamnewton

iTrader: (4)

if you get a 6speed w/DCCD and decide not to hook it up it will stay open, which is (i believe) a 35%front-65%rear split but i recommend DCCD Pro. I didnt at the time of the swap and i regret it. and the plus side is you can always do it later on

kamnewton

iTrader: (4)

another thing, if you are worried about credibility, this is a reputable place from where i got my swap from. Japan Domestic Motor - JDM Montreal
currently they dont have any for sale but they pop up every now and then. all parts come with a 30 day warranty.

aaaaaaand if you want a JDM sti cluster, lmk

ddavis

iTrader: (4)

Mine has worked great. Its the street disc version. Never gave me problems so far at my power level. Alot of guys run a 5 speed clutch in their 6 when doing the swap, its fine.

aboothman

iTrader: (8)

It is funny that you mention that trans. As you know I ended up buying it for $1500 and a quick trip over to Redding (6 hour round trip.) Anyway, I had to replace the extension housing where the driveshaft attaches. That cost me $150. I could have had it welded, and avoided any potential issue with proper shims and such, but I spent before realizing that.

I also discovered that it had an unknown issue that would not allow it to shift, so I sent it to Gearworks in San Lorenzo (recommended by Mike @ GST.) Andrewtech wanted $1200 just to open the box and fix what they thought was a busted shift interlocker. Gearworks replaced the interlocker AND upgraded me to the 06+ synchros for $850. I paid $220 to ship it both ways, and bought a buddy lunch for helping. Also had to buy a lower shifter stay rod because the otherone was horribly bent (I think I did it accidently.) The gears all looked great as did the front and center diffs.

Total? About $2800 give or take $100, and a bunch of my time. Of course this was for my swap so I had time to spend. I am sure I could have picked up some other 05 STI tranny for the same or cheaper, but at least this one has been gone through and is pretty much a fresh tranny.

I put an 06 6 speed in my 06 WRX, and had a fiasco getting it here from Florida. Received the wrong tranny at first, and had to have it shipped back. Later on the shop dude worked at did not want to pay the bill for shipping so I had to resolve that with the shipping company, but NOT on my dime!! Finally got the correct tranny and it has been flawless ever since. That cost around $2600 but was a bit of a hassle.

In the end the question is whether $1000+ is worth it to save the potential hassle that you can experience by dealing with people online.

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

That makes sense, though I believe the '06-'07 is more like 41/59 by default. Have to check on that - learned a ton in the last week or so!

Nice, I will keep that in my list. Actually I do want to pick up a JDM cluster at some point as I may be relocating to Sweden, and it would be really nice to read in km/h. I'll PM you, no idea what that is worth.

Sweet. I read a lot of back and forth on the various places I looked, but I think now the confusion was with the '06-'07 WRX being a totally different type of clutch. Nice to hear you are doing it, with the same parts I have. Thanks!

Yes, I do remember that now - we talked about it couple years ago. Sorry to bring it back up again. Though, it sounds like it worked out okay and you have a way better box than if it had been "fine" out the door. Personally I did not know enough about the 6spds to be able to confidently check it out, but in all my time I had not seen a yoke just come off the output shaft, so it worried me.

Awesome about Gearworks. That seems like a great deal. They are going in my list too. Now that you mention it, I think I read something you wrote about this in Paul's thread about my old pile of parts. DOH.

The stuff you mention about the wrong tranny being shipped and such - exactly what I was talking about. I have had stuff like that before, as well as purchasing a JDM 3SGTE that turned out to not exist, and I happened to find out because a guy on the phone slipped up when I called to check. Turned ugly, but I got my money back in the end. Anyway, I cannot chance stuff like that right now - but - if I get something I can commute in, then I don't have to worry about this anymore and I can just take my time collecting parts.

I still definitely want to do the 6spd, if I can. I am going to see about getting something cheap, but my wife has put forth the ultimatum that the Justy must go haha. I think the word "crushed" was even tossed in there. LOL? Anyway if I can score some meaningless transportation appliance, then I will just let my WRX chill for a while and collect parts. My mechanic said no problem to store stuff. If I can't get something, then I will probably have to do the 5spd.

ddavis, I may hit you up and see if I can come grab that driveshaft after all. We'll see. High hopes!

wombatsauce

iTrader: (7)

Last few quotes for gearboxes were all over $4k. So far I have found a few that advertise gearboxes under $2k and in every case, when actually contacted, there is not actually a gearbox. The last one of such just got back to me saying that they did not have one in stock but could get me one for $4k plus shipping and core charge. LOL? I made it clear that I have an '02 WRX, do not own a 6spd and am looking to purchase one. I replied and asked some obvious questions, did not get a reply. Couple folks have working/installed 6spds which is a better bet, but then in that case I would be paying 2x the labor and providing a 5spd that I do not have. It would be far cheaper to purchase a brand new gearbox from Subaru than to work with someone who wants to part their car, based on what I have found so-far.

Seen some on eBay that show pics with Brembos, mention it in the headline, and then say in the ad they are not included. There is a JDM setup on CL right now in the East Bay, they want $4,500. I'm just not going to even entertain that amount of money for an un-known complex mechanical device.

I have to say, congrats to anyone that found a 6spd for such a low price. I do not think I can re-create that sort of experience, based on a lot of searching and conversations with folks. From what I have found, finding an '06-'07 6spd gearbox that is in working condition for less than $2k is incredibly un-usual to say the least. Some of these are bare gearboxes, and the supporting parts to have a cost as well.

I have also found many used 5spds for asking prices higher than it would cost me to have mine rebuilt (based on quotes). It seems like forging ahead with the 6spd swap in these real-world conditions would be incredibly stupid.

Tired of the car sitting, and I know how I am. The sun is setting for me with this car as it continues to be expensive and not useful. Needs to get running.

Moving forward with the 5spd rebuild.

Thank you all for the information.