View Poll Results: Should "under god" be removed from the pledge? Yes or no
Yes
39
52.00%
No
36
48.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll
Should "under god" stay or go in the pledge?
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Originally Posted by ryball
Seriously? I think that's what makes this country so great - having the right to have a difference of opinion as to what you think is right. Not one naroow view of what is right and what is wrong. Freedom of religion is a good thing, mmmkay?
i disagree with you. yes freedom of religion. but i tend to look at a nation as a family. with our leader of our nation... just like how a father should lead his family. one view and one vision. can u imagine a father trying to run a family whose ideals and values conflict his own? as narrow minded as it may seem to follow one set of "ideals and values"- but then again its not so narrow minded at all. just imagine if we applied the philosophy of everyone believing "what they think is right" to everything in life- can u imagine the military saying, "yeah do whatever you feel is right.." or your employers saying, "yeah do whatever you want to do today..."
freedom of religion is important- but what does that really mean?
do you really think multiple religions can coexist with one another?
satanists, christians, muslims, buddhists, catholics all in harmony?
to me, that is way too diverse.
das jus me
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
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Originally Posted by gdogg
freedom of religion is important- but what does that really mean?
do you really think multiple religions can coexist with one another?
satanists, christians, muslims, buddhists, catholics all in harmony?
to me, that is way too diverse
do you really think multiple religions can coexist with one another?
satanists, christians, muslims, buddhists, catholics all in harmony?
to me, that is way too diverse
Last edited by dr3d1zzl3; Jun 17, 2004 at 05:48 PM.
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i just stepped over the path of a red herring. dre, you are one of the few who live in DAvis but didnt go to school there. sometimes i forget that it is aactual community 
Originally Posted by gdogg
freedom of religion is important- but what does that really mean?
do you really think multiple religions can coexist with one another?
satanists, christians, muslims, buddhists, catholics all in harmony?
to me, that is way too diverse.
das jus me
They raised me with strong values and morals without directing my religion. I was lucky enough to have a diverse group of friends that welcomed me to their respective places of worship. I made up my own mind what I wanted to be.
It would be great if the government/my country/the president was my family. Then maybe they wouldn't try to tell me what religion I am supposed to be...
All I'm saying is that strong morals and values are not necessarily tied to religion...
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its not multiple religions, its the zealots that make them incompatable. People who believe the bible or koran literally word for word - because in almost every manuscript is somthing that goes along the lines of "kill all non-believers", or can be interpreted by said crazyass zealots. But, there are quite a few countries now that don't care what religion you are, as its no longer the 1600s. Freedom of religion is no longer the big draw to america.
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this thread can go on for centuries!!
no doubt, i'm sure you have awesome parents.
but i wonder this- with your mom being a devout Catholic(and having strong convictions in what she believes in) how important is it for her to have your dad experience what she has? and the same for your sister? We all have strong beliefs in certain things. when i have something that i believe is a matter of life or death i try my best to share my knowledge/experience with others... is that the same for your mom, grandpa and sister?
just a thought... and by no means intending to offend you or anyone in any way.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
originally posted by ryball
Hmm... let's see... my grandpa is buddhist, I'm Muslim, my sister is Christian, my mom was raised Catholic, and my father is... well nothing, really... My family is just fine. In fact, a lot of my friends say that they would love it if they were adopted into my family. That's probably because my parents are so incredible.
Hmm... let's see... my grandpa is buddhist, I'm Muslim, my sister is Christian, my mom was raised Catholic, and my father is... well nothing, really... My family is just fine. In fact, a lot of my friends say that they would love it if they were adopted into my family. That's probably because my parents are so incredible.
but i wonder this- with your mom being a devout Catholic(and having strong convictions in what she believes in) how important is it for her to have your dad experience what she has? and the same for your sister? We all have strong beliefs in certain things. when i have something that i believe is a matter of life or death i try my best to share my knowledge/experience with others... is that the same for your mom, grandpa and sister?
just a thought... and by no means intending to offend you or anyone in any way.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
Originally Posted by gdogg
this thread can go on for centuries!!
no doubt, i'm sure you have awesome parents.
but i wonder this- with your mom being a devout Catholic(and having strong convictions in what she believes in) how important is it for her to have your dad experience what she has? and the same for your sister? We all have strong beliefs in certain things. when i have something that i believe is a matter of life or death i try my best to share my knowledge/experience with others... is that the same for your mom, grandpa and sister?
just a thought... and by no means intending to offend you or anyone in any way.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
no doubt, i'm sure you have awesome parents.
but i wonder this- with your mom being a devout Catholic(and having strong convictions in what she believes in) how important is it for her to have your dad experience what she has? and the same for your sister? We all have strong beliefs in certain things. when i have something that i believe is a matter of life or death i try my best to share my knowledge/experience with others... is that the same for your mom, grandpa and sister?
just a thought... and by no means intending to offend you or anyone in any way.
aloha from the summit of Mauna Kea
No offense taken.
My mom is not a devout Catholic by any means. hahhahaSo I guess this boils down to the "if you don't believe/do/think the 'right' thing you aren't going to heaven" theory.
We all, obivously, have different beliefs. I don't eat pork. I don't drink. Do I think that alone is going to get me into heaven? No. My sister believes that Jesus is God. Does she think that alone is going to get her into heaven? No. I think that the Old Testament/Koran/Torah(sp?) are very similar. They have a lot of stories that are the same.
In all of them, I think what it comes down to is this: Don't do bad stuff and you are in (except in Catholisism, where you can do bad stuff, but you have to say you're sorry. hahaha!). I think if you love your neighbor/brother, have strong morals/values(which as I said before I don't believe are achieved only through religion), and you don't hold hate in your heart, you are going to heaven. I just hope it is the same heaven for everyone, because I have a lot of friends and family that are different religions. Plus I want to see my dog, too.
I've just been told too many times, (always by Christians - no offense intended, but I have never gotten it from any other religion) that because I don't believe a certain thing (that Jesus is God) I am going to hell and subjecting my family to an eternity in hell.
I believe in God. I believe in heaven. I believe in Jesus. I just don't think he is/was God. I think God will judge us in the end, and will reward good people. I'd like to think that He would be forgiving of those of us that weren't so good all the time. I think those of us who are religious (monotheistic) all believe in God. We just worship Him in different ways.
I think that a little research would go a long way toward understanding different religions. I guess I have been lucky enough to have been given that opportunity.
We are all a lot more alike than most of us would like to admit.
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I am going out on a line here, but what the heck...
Did Christ say that He is the way, the truth, and the life? Yes. Does that mean somebody from a remote village in China or a practicing Hindu in the heart of India will be cast to Hell because they didnt believe in Jesus / God while they are alive? I would say resolutely NO. God is fair and just.
Christ once said that he has sheep in other pens. I take this to mean that there are people who will not know God during their lifetime, but after they pass on they will have a chance to see / feel Christ and God. If I stand against the grain of mainstream Christianity on this one then so be it.
: puts on flame suit for an all-out assault :
Did Christ say that He is the way, the truth, and the life? Yes. Does that mean somebody from a remote village in China or a practicing Hindu in the heart of India will be cast to Hell because they didnt believe in Jesus / God while they are alive? I would say resolutely NO. God is fair and just.
Christ once said that he has sheep in other pens. I take this to mean that there are people who will not know God during their lifetime, but after they pass on they will have a chance to see / feel Christ and God. If I stand against the grain of mainstream Christianity on this one then so be it.
: puts on flame suit for an all-out assault :
Last edited by dub2w; Jun 18, 2004 at 04:31 PM.
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You think you are going to get flamed? Watch this.
I think that trying to apply a 2000 year old manuscript to your everyday modern life - and claiming that it is the only truth, and that there are mystical beings in the sky that....oh jeez, i could go on and on with some of the absurd things that you people believe. Literally, I'm talking volumes. I'm one of those horrible people who think there is no way in hell the human mind could even comprehend the complexity and beauty that makes up the universe, and i really don't think that some dudes a few thousand years ago nailed the great mystery right on the head. I mean, they literally borrowed and paved over and renamed just about every great story and character and message of every religion before it. Hardly original. Sure, new god, new sandals, new ted nugent hair cut. Sure, it grazed a few strings of truth that we all collectivley recognize, and there are of course good messages in the bible - but they are also common sense, especially if you want to get these goddamned apes to stop raping and killing each other. Religion bred a bit of responsability into us, and is responsable for modern man - but now its clinging on like a 200,000 year old turd - and its going to kill us all. But for the most part, with the exception of a few religions that i think are fundamentally beautiful, if not a bit boring - the absurdity never ends, and thanks to the zealots of the world - the "disease of the mind" seems to grow more and more volatile. I don't know why my grandpa died suddenly. I don't know why saturn is pretty cool lookin. I dont know why trees resemble fractal mathmatics. But, i sure as hell arent going to let a ancient business tell me that some guy with an infinite beard at one point during infinity made all this. Much too simple. It's mythology. It's fun. It's a fabrication. Deal with it.
But in the end, we all can believe what we want. And if it makes you feel better and doesnt impede on anyone elses life. Go for it - its awesome you can make yourself feel like that. Just don't knock on my door. I'll be looking at a pine cone thinking "wow, thats a neat little thing".
I think that trying to apply a 2000 year old manuscript to your everyday modern life - and claiming that it is the only truth, and that there are mystical beings in the sky that....oh jeez, i could go on and on with some of the absurd things that you people believe. Literally, I'm talking volumes. I'm one of those horrible people who think there is no way in hell the human mind could even comprehend the complexity and beauty that makes up the universe, and i really don't think that some dudes a few thousand years ago nailed the great mystery right on the head. I mean, they literally borrowed and paved over and renamed just about every great story and character and message of every religion before it. Hardly original. Sure, new god, new sandals, new ted nugent hair cut. Sure, it grazed a few strings of truth that we all collectivley recognize, and there are of course good messages in the bible - but they are also common sense, especially if you want to get these goddamned apes to stop raping and killing each other. Religion bred a bit of responsability into us, and is responsable for modern man - but now its clinging on like a 200,000 year old turd - and its going to kill us all. But for the most part, with the exception of a few religions that i think are fundamentally beautiful, if not a bit boring - the absurdity never ends, and thanks to the zealots of the world - the "disease of the mind" seems to grow more and more volatile. I don't know why my grandpa died suddenly. I don't know why saturn is pretty cool lookin. I dont know why trees resemble fractal mathmatics. But, i sure as hell arent going to let a ancient business tell me that some guy with an infinite beard at one point during infinity made all this. Much too simple. It's mythology. It's fun. It's a fabrication. Deal with it.
But in the end, we all can believe what we want. And if it makes you feel better and doesnt impede on anyone elses life. Go for it - its awesome you can make yourself feel like that. Just don't knock on my door. I'll be looking at a pine cone thinking "wow, thats a neat little thing".