How to tighten up the ride quality on a high mileage chassis?
06-17-2012, 08:24 PM
#17
I would get stiffer engine mounts and OR solid pitch stop mount. Tranny mount even if you want to go that far. Steering rack bushings for sure.
As for the squeaky windows, it could be that the padding that rests a long side the glass on the inside of the door is worn out, if that is the case then that part would be grinding on the glass when you raise and lower your window. You can take the door apart and replace those pads, I believe its 4 per door, with a new felt lining and some spray adhesive or whichever soft material you can come by for cheap. Some have used faux fur.
Last edited by pho_shizzle; 06-17-2012 at 08:27 PM.
06-17-2012, 09:37 PM
#18
Registered User
iTrader: (13)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,035
Car Info: 02 WRX Wagon
I don't think the sheet metal in the car got noticeably looser or weaker as a result of all those miles of wear and tear, at least not if you haven't been abusing and racing the car and stretching the limits of it's strength. I think you will see more return on investment if you replace all the rubber in the car and added some bracing in key areas.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
06-17-2012, 11:10 PM
#19
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
Already did group n engine and tranny
This is def in the plan.
As for the squeaky windows, it could be that the padding that rests a long side the glass on the inside of the door is worn out, if that is the case then that part would be grinding on the glass when you raise and lower your window. You can take the door apart and replace those pads, I believe its 4 per door, with a new felt lining and some spray adhesive or whichever soft material you can come by for cheap. Some have used faux fur.
06-17-2012, 11:21 PM
#20
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
I don't think the sheet metal in the car got noticeably looser or weaker as a result of all those miles of wear and tear, at least not if you haven't been abusing and racing the car and stretching the limits of it's strength. I think you will see more return on investment if you replace all the rubber in the car and added some bracing in key areas.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
06-18-2012, 04:03 AM
#22
aka FlukeWRX
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: East Bay
Posts: 3,657
Car Info: '03 WRX WRB Sedan
What is your current suspension setup (what's already been done on the car)?
When's the last time the brakes were replaced? How about the fluid?
Have you checked your ball joints & tie rods. You can check by doing the wheel shake test. Put your hands on both sides of the tire with the front of the car in the air and see if you can wiggle the wheel. Do the same for top and bottom of the tire. Do that on both sides of the car. If the tire is wiggling then you may have some loose / worn out suspension bits in there.
Some of the rattling you may be hearing might just be from the VIN plate up by the front windshield. It's just tack welded so it might make a bit of a rattling sound. I know mine will make a sound once in a while, probably just hitting the right driving conditions to get it to rattle audibly I guess.
If you do replace the suspension you might also want to consider the Whiteline Com C tops. Essentially the same rubber as the Group N Tops, but with additional Caster (and Camber if you desire that particular setup or not). It's a static setting, but it's worth getting over the Group N Tops. (If you are not tracking your car, you really don't need camber plates).
I'm not sure what your current alignment settings are at, but honestly if you are even still using stock alignment (or close to it) you probably have next to no front camber and probably understeer in corners. I'd recommend maxing out the camber on the front to the max even amount across both tires and Zero out the toe all the way around. Even with those settings you still should not kill your tires (remember the rear is already close to -1.5 Camber from the factory while the fronts are something like -0.3 Camber). So bumping it up really should not hurt your tire wear on the front, but will help with the handling, just make sure you have Zero Toe all the way around (along with proper tire pressure).
When's the last time the brakes were replaced? How about the fluid?
Have you checked your ball joints & tie rods. You can check by doing the wheel shake test. Put your hands on both sides of the tire with the front of the car in the air and see if you can wiggle the wheel. Do the same for top and bottom of the tire. Do that on both sides of the car. If the tire is wiggling then you may have some loose / worn out suspension bits in there.
Some of the rattling you may be hearing might just be from the VIN plate up by the front windshield. It's just tack welded so it might make a bit of a rattling sound. I know mine will make a sound once in a while, probably just hitting the right driving conditions to get it to rattle audibly I guess.
If you do replace the suspension you might also want to consider the Whiteline Com C tops. Essentially the same rubber as the Group N Tops, but with additional Caster (and Camber if you desire that particular setup or not). It's a static setting, but it's worth getting over the Group N Tops. (If you are not tracking your car, you really don't need camber plates).
I'm not sure what your current alignment settings are at, but honestly if you are even still using stock alignment (or close to it) you probably have next to no front camber and probably understeer in corners. I'd recommend maxing out the camber on the front to the max even amount across both tires and Zero out the toe all the way around. Even with those settings you still should not kill your tires (remember the rear is already close to -1.5 Camber from the factory while the fronts are something like -0.3 Camber). So bumping it up really should not hurt your tire wear on the front, but will help with the handling, just make sure you have Zero Toe all the way around (along with proper tire pressure).
06-18-2012, 09:37 AM
#23
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: East Bay / Pomona
Posts: 3,670
Car Info: '02 PSM WRX
I don't think the sheet metal in the car got noticeably looser or weaker as a result of all those miles of wear and tear, at least not if you haven't been abusing and racing the car and stretching the limits of it's strength. I think you will see more return on investment if you replace all the rubber in the car and added some bracing in key areas.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
I would worry that tightening up the car will lead to more NVH due to stiffer bushings, but at 250k your bushings must be so worn that you probably have nothing to lose. If NVH is a big concern then maybe consider getting OEM replacements instead of harder polyurethane performance oriented stuff.
Here is what I would look into/have some experience with:
- ALK replacement - the high-durometer poly bushings made for a very noticeable increase in ride stiffness when I put mine in, and I have the whiteline comfort version.
- other control arm bushings
- lateral link bushings
- trailing arm bushings (remember there are 2, one in front and one in rear of each arm)
- strut top-hats (though I see you put in STI ones at some point, they might be worn by now)
- Transmission cross-member bushings
- Roll Center Adjusters - from TiC site: "Great for a lowered car they return the control arm angle closer to stock to help bring roll center closer to CG. By doing this they adjust the outter portion of the control arm downward. They also help move the control arm so you spend more time in the "sweet spot" of control arm angle in relation to camber loss in due to the McPherson strut setup."
- Rear differential mount bushings
- Rear differenctial outrigger bushings
- rear subframe lock bolts - HUUUUGE "tighten-up" improvement in the rear, and I didn't notice any more NVH
- fender braces - another one of the best bang/buck stiffness improvements, it essentially does for the front end what the lock bolts do for the rear
- stiffer sway bars (and endlinks/mounts) - this can allow you to run a softer spring rate versus soft bars and high spring rate. (high spring rates increase NVH, but stiffer sways do not)
- h-brace/rear strut bar - most folks agree the front strut bar isn't much use, but reviews say the h-brace and rear bar are improvements (I've never tried an H-brace, but in my wagon a rear bar makes a nice difference)
That's pretty much all there IS I think... maybe some sound deadening material in strategic locations.
One other thing, is while I have strut bars (cheap replicas a friend got me) I feel they're pretty useless. If I didn't get them for free, I never would have put on any strut bars on my car. Instead of those, look into the x-brace.
CarLabs Development X-Brace - Subaru GD
If you want a quieter, less bumpy ride. Look into softer comfortable tires?
06-18-2012, 10:19 AM
#25
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
V7 JDM STi front/rear seats, WhiteLine 24mm RSB, WhiteLine solid EL, STi tophats, STi springs, Kyb struts, Stoptech slotted rotors, StopTech steel lines, Yokohama S drive tires, '07 WRX wheels, StopTech brake pads, V7 JDM STi Steering wheel, Stoptech brake fluid
stage 2 stoptech kit 1.5 yrs ago. The front pads could use a change soon.
Have you checked your ball joints & tie rods. You can check by doing the wheel shake test. Put your hands on both sides of the tire with the front of the car in the air and see if you can wiggle the wheel. Do the same for top and bottom of the tire. Do that on both sides of the car. If the tire is wiggling then you may have some loose / worn out suspension bits in there.
Some of the rattling you may be hearing might just be from the VIN plate up by the front windshield. It's just tack welded so it might make a bit of a rattling sound. I know mine will make a sound once in a while, probably just hitting the right driving conditions to get it to rattle audibly I guess.
If you do replace the suspension you might also want to consider the Whiteline Com C tops. Essentially the same rubber as the Group N Tops, but with additional Caster (and Camber if you desire that particular setup or not). It's a static setting, but it's worth getting over the Group N Tops. (If you are not tracking your car, you really don't need camber plates).
I'm not sure what your current alignment settings are at, but honestly if you are even still using stock alignment (or close to it) you probably have next to no front camber and probably understeer in corners. I'd recommend maxing out the camber on the front to the max even amount across both tires and Zero out the toe all the way around. Even with those settings you still should not kill your tires (remember the rear is already close to -1.5 Camber from the factory while the fronts are something like -0.3 Camber). So bumping it up really should not hurt your tire wear on the front, but will help with the handling, just make sure you have Zero Toe all the way around (along with proper tire pressure).
Last edited by johndabrit; 06-18-2012 at 10:24 AM.
06-18-2012, 10:22 AM
#26
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
already did that. Went to 07 stockies with meatier tires. I've done some of the simple stuff to do which is why im looking more into the fundamentals of suspension, bushings, and other ride quality atttributes.
06-18-2012, 10:37 AM
#27
Great post, lots of good information. If you have questions on stuff, I really would talk to the guys at Turn In Concepts, they're great guys to talk to and pick their brains when they're not swamped in work.
One other thing, is while I have strut bars (cheap replicas a friend got me) I feel they're pretty useless. If I didn't get them for free, I never would have put on any strut bars on my car. Instead of those, look into the x-brace.
CarLabs Development X-Brace - Subaru GD
If you want a quieter, less bumpy ride. Look into softer comfortable tires?
One other thing, is while I have strut bars (cheap replicas a friend got me) I feel they're pretty useless. If I didn't get them for free, I never would have put on any strut bars on my car. Instead of those, look into the x-brace.
CarLabs Development X-Brace - Subaru GD
If you want a quieter, less bumpy ride. Look into softer comfortable tires?
06-18-2012, 10:38 AM
#28
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
1 couldnt take the moar powaaaa i was making with the new build
2 never really broke in. The clutch shudder was horrific
3.is great. Ended up with ACT stage 2.
06-18-2012, 10:41 AM
#29
Da Brit.
Thread Starter
iTrader: (31)
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 2,808
Car Info: http://tinyurl.com/3vo4362
so far in no particular order. This is what this thread has given me.
kartboy Engine Pitch stop
grimmspeed master brake bracket
very thin felt and adhesive spray for window noise
whiteline com C strut tops
Whiteline Anti-lift kit
oem control arm bushing replacement
oem lateral link bushings replacement
oem trailing arm bushing replacement
transmission cross member bushing
roll center adjusters
rear subframe lock bolts
rear dif mount bushings
rear dif outrigger bushings
fender braces
h-brace or X-Brace
ball joint inspection
tie rods inspection
check dashboard vin plate and under dash for causes of nvh
whiteline steering column bushings
RCE springs with tokico spec-d or similar strut
turn in concepts shifter bushings
this is a healthy list. I have a feeling it will keep growing the more i look into this
kartboy Engine Pitch stop
grimmspeed master brake bracket
very thin felt and adhesive spray for window noise
whiteline com C strut tops
Whiteline Anti-lift kit
oem control arm bushing replacement
oem lateral link bushings replacement
oem trailing arm bushing replacement
transmission cross member bushing
roll center adjusters
rear subframe lock bolts
rear dif mount bushings
rear dif outrigger bushings
fender braces
h-brace or X-Brace
ball joint inspection
tie rods inspection
check dashboard vin plate and under dash for causes of nvh
whiteline steering column bushings
RCE springs with tokico spec-d or similar strut
turn in concepts shifter bushings
this is a healthy list. I have a feeling it will keep growing the more i look into this
06-18-2012, 10:44 AM
#30
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milpitas
Posts: 847
Car Info: 05 WRX Wagon and 08 Civic Si
so funny everyone knows how to stiffen up your ride but no one knows how to fix the squeeky windows
replace the rubber squeegee seals that are on the doors with new ones - this actually wipes the glass when you roll down the window- your noise will go away,
they are supposed to have a felt flocking on them that wears off after years of opening and closing the windows.
replace the rubber squeegee seals that are on the doors with new ones - this actually wipes the glass when you roll down the window- your noise will go away,
they are supposed to have a felt flocking on them that wears off after years of opening and closing the windows.
