AUDT: BAIC thoughts on the BRZ
01-02-2014, 07:54 AM
#46
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
I agree with most of your points in your post but this one is molded a bit to fit your point.
You forgot to mention that the SCC MR2 was modified and turbocharged with 100whp and 83wtq more than stock: Toyota MR-2 and Lotus Elise - Sport Compact Car
You forgot to mention that the SCC MR2 was modified and turbocharged with 100whp and 83wtq more than stock: Toyota MR-2 and Lotus Elise - Sport Compact Car
You are right, I left out some details that seemed to make my point. The Lotus is definitely the superior car, but it also costs much more. I have owned/commuted in a 2002 MR-2 Spyder, and spent a good amount of time on tracks (mostly T-Hill) in 2 of the cars. Done a bit of driving in an Elise 190 in the UK and a standard Elise here and they are incredible, but the Toyotas are a ton of fun as well - more scrappy. I guess I thought, for this thread, there was no point in the Lotus (IMHO).
If anyone were given the choice to have either car for free, it would be the Lotus, which is probably obvious - even if it were just because it sounds cooler to have a Lotus.
01-02-2014, 08:58 AM
#47
Yeah... that's really all it is when it comes to these cars... what are they, what are their potential and what are you going to do about it.
In my book... I'll never have a stock car.... ever. So as my budget changes and I get different cars those cars will be modded as well. Just because I don't have the budget for a GT3 right now doesn't mean I never will. And if I do have that budget I'll have the budget to slap different wheels on it and make other upgrades as well.
It's that age old argument...
This car cost $10k and I put $10k in to it and it outperformed this other car that was $40k or whatever. Well that person would just say... well if I put $10k into my $40k car it would outperform your car.
Question is... are you going to do it.
And the real question is.... for $28k can you get a better NEW RWD sports car than the BRZ/FRS as a stand alone platform or a base to modify? And do you like it?
In my book... I'll never have a stock car.... ever. So as my budget changes and I get different cars those cars will be modded as well. Just because I don't have the budget for a GT3 right now doesn't mean I never will. And if I do have that budget I'll have the budget to slap different wheels on it and make other upgrades as well.
It's that age old argument...
This car cost $10k and I put $10k in to it and it outperformed this other car that was $40k or whatever. Well that person would just say... well if I put $10k into my $40k car it would outperform your car.
Question is... are you going to do it.
And the real question is.... for $28k can you get a better NEW RWD sports car than the BRZ/FRS as a stand alone platform or a base to modify? And do you like it?
01-02-2014, 10:04 AM
#49
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SJ
Posts: 2,644
Car Info: 94 Integra beater: one Slow 3 Series RIP EvoX
Yeah... that's really all it is when it comes to these cars... what are they, what are their potential and what are you going to do about it.
In my book... I'll never have a stock car.... ever. So as my budget changes and I get different cars those cars will be modded as well. Just because I don't have the budget for a GT3 right now doesn't mean I never will. And if I do have that budget I'll have the budget to slap different wheels on it and make other upgrades as well.
It's that age old argument...
This car cost $10k and I put $10k in to it and it outperformed this other car that was $40k or whatever. Well that person would just say... well if I put $10k into my $40k car it would outperform your car.
Question is... are you going to do it.
And the real question is.... for $28k can you get a better NEW RWD sports car than the BRZ/FRS as a stand alone platform or a base to modify? And do you like it?
In my book... I'll never have a stock car.... ever. So as my budget changes and I get different cars those cars will be modded as well. Just because I don't have the budget for a GT3 right now doesn't mean I never will. And if I do have that budget I'll have the budget to slap different wheels on it and make other upgrades as well.
It's that age old argument...
This car cost $10k and I put $10k in to it and it outperformed this other car that was $40k or whatever. Well that person would just say... well if I put $10k into my $40k car it would outperform your car.
Question is... are you going to do it.
And the real question is.... for $28k can you get a better NEW RWD sports car than the BRZ/FRS as a stand alone platform or a base to modify? And do you like it?
2.0T Genesis coupe is essentially the power level in brakes/suspension trim the FRS/BRZ should have had from the factory for less than 26k
There's a new Mustang around the corner with a 2.3 Ecoboost option ~300hp and 32 mpg for around 28k
IF ToyoBaru decides to eventually ADD power and engine options like a turbo FA20 like the new WRX, then they would have conceded that the car need more power to compete or keep up with the competition. Even if they dont raise peak power past say 210-220 hp the Tq and engine response goes WAYYYY up and it would be able to climb hills with a tq ~185-200lb-ft
01-02-2014, 11:06 AM
#50
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: The Town / Oakland
Posts: 1,532
Car Info: Black On Black Wingless 05 STI
I think the car is cool, never drove it but they do look good, everyone has their flavors and tastes...
One observation from my end... I see way more FRS's! I seriously have seen maybe a handful of BRZ's out there... seems like the FRS is all over the place though!
One observation from my end... I see way more FRS's! I seriously have seen maybe a handful of BRZ's out there... seems like the FRS is all over the place though!
01-02-2014, 01:36 PM
#52
Base 370z with dealer incentives are around 27k ATM for MY13 as the MY14s are now available.
2.0T Genesis coupe is essentially the power level in brakes/suspension trim the FRS/BRZ should have had from the factory for less than 26k
There's a new Mustang around the corner with a 2.3 Ecoboost option ~300hp and 32 mpg for around 28k
IF ToyoBaru decides to eventually ADD power and engine options like a turbo FA20 like the new WRX, then they would have conceded that the car need more power to compete or keep up with the competition. Even if they dont raise peak power past say 210-220 hp the Tq and engine response goes WAYYYY up and it would be able to climb hills with a tq ~185-200lb-ft
2.0T Genesis coupe is essentially the power level in brakes/suspension trim the FRS/BRZ should have had from the factory for less than 26k
There's a new Mustang around the corner with a 2.3 Ecoboost option ~300hp and 32 mpg for around 28k
IF ToyoBaru decides to eventually ADD power and engine options like a turbo FA20 like the new WRX, then they would have conceded that the car need more power to compete or keep up with the competition. Even if they dont raise peak power past say 210-220 hp the Tq and engine response goes WAYYYY up and it would be able to climb hills with a tq ~185-200lb-ft
No way in hell would I drive a mustang. ESPECIALLY a base model. That is NOT a better car than the BRZ at anything.
Genesis. Yeah it's cheaper. BRZ/FRS is a better car. Genesis isn't all that much cheaper either.
You could say the miata as well... but it's a convertible and the FRS/BRZ is a better car in most every aspect.
370Z... you're comparing a year old "new" car with a new new car. I'm sure with incentives and things like that IF they were around that long you could get the FRS/BRZ for less too. I am pretty much looking at retail prices. And that car. The Z has more power but it also weighs more. I'd rather have the BRZ. Track performance is in the BRZ/FRS favor. Looks are in the BRZ/FRS behavior. Interior... I kinda like the BRZ better but the Z is more refined with some better materials.
All in all... I don't think it's a better car and realistically... it's more expensive.
The genesis is probably the closest comparison and I'd still rather have an FRS or BRZ. The genesis has more ponies but it's also turbo and in my opinion just doesn't have great build quality. I'd rather start with a better vehicle and do a few things to get a few more HP out of it. Even at 250 hp the BRZ is dramatically better.
I'd really like to see them come out with something with a bit more punch as the rest of the car is spot on.
01-02-2014, 01:59 PM
#54
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I wuv imprezeR with all muh heartz. CareBearZ fur
Posts: 582
Car Info: 05' Evo MR w/E85 - 10' Ralliart Sportback w/E85
I guess I conveniently forgot that they turbocharged it. I knew they modded it extensively with suspension/bracing and that the Elise was stock, but did not mention those things because I thought it odd to suggest an Elise (or an Exige?) as a comparable alternative to a BRZ. Also - I need to read it again, but IIRC, the Toyota was around half the cost even with the work, of the stock Lotus. It was not as composed but was able to produce similar performance figures with the same drivers. Indeed it did have more power, but it also weighed more.
You are right, I left out some details that seemed to make my point. The Lotus is definitely the superior car, but it also costs much more. I have owned/commuted in a 2002 MR-2 Spyder, and spent a good amount of time on tracks (mostly T-Hill) in 2 of the cars. Done a bit of driving in an Elise 190 in the UK and a standard Elise here and they are incredible, but the Toyotas are a ton of fun as well - more scrappy. I guess I thought, for this thread, there was no point in the Lotus (IMHO).
If anyone were given the choice to have either car for free, it would be the Lotus, which is probably obvious - even if it were just because it sounds cooler to have a Lotus.
You are right, I left out some details that seemed to make my point. The Lotus is definitely the superior car, but it also costs much more. I have owned/commuted in a 2002 MR-2 Spyder, and spent a good amount of time on tracks (mostly T-Hill) in 2 of the cars. Done a bit of driving in an Elise 190 in the UK and a standard Elise here and they are incredible, but the Toyotas are a ton of fun as well - more scrappy. I guess I thought, for this thread, there was no point in the Lotus (IMHO).
If anyone were given the choice to have either car for free, it would be the Lotus, which is probably obvious - even if it were just because it sounds cooler to have a Lotus.
I actually really like the FRS/BRZ. I understand what the car is about and what it's for. I really do. If I had a little extra money I would get one as an additional car. Even though I know what the car is for and about, I couldn't have it as my only car, mainly because of room and lack of power, but I am slightly skewed in that dept because I own a 500hp Evo 8 and a 400hp Evo 10.
01-02-2014, 04:53 PM
#55
VIP Member
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 7,441
Car Info: 2018 Golf R Variant
Yea I agree with you again. I just wanted to point out that detail because I didn't want people thinking they could go buy a used stock MR2 Spyder for $6,000 and be busting up an Elise on track.
I actually really like the FRS/BRZ. I understand what the car is about and what it's for. I really do. If I had a little extra money I would get one as an additional car. Even though I know what the car is for and about, I couldn't have it as my only car, mainly because of room and lack of power, but I am slightly skewed in that dept because I own a 500hp Evo 8 and a 400hp Evo 10.
I actually really like the FRS/BRZ. I understand what the car is about and what it's for. I really do. If I had a little extra money I would get one as an additional car. Even though I know what the car is for and about, I couldn't have it as my only car, mainly because of room and lack of power, but I am slightly skewed in that dept because I own a 500hp Evo 8 and a 400hp Evo 10.
And.. Can I get a ride?!? Holy crap that must be fun!
01-02-2014, 10:05 PM
#56
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SJ
Posts: 2,644
Car Info: 94 Integra beater: one Slow 3 Series RIP EvoX
The new Mustang will have IRS and much better build quality as it will now be a Gloabl model and platform.
The Genesis Coupe I agree is the closest vehicle to it and saying it has poor build quality with out first hand experience is like interwebs bench racing.
I personally own a Genesis and my cousin owns an FRS while her sister's BF owns a BRZ.
There have been many things that broke off or are issues with BOTH their cars than I can count., while I have never had anything go bad at triple their mileage. 22k vs. ~8k each.
Shifter trim part cracked while shifting on freeway on the FRS, dealer replaced part
Trunk open button stopped working after 1500 miles, bad wiring harness behind button, dealer replaced. I was there laughing at them but then realized they had my beers/ korean bbq ribs in there so the joke was on me
Left tailight developed a bad seal and had bad condesation in the BRZ, dealer repaired under warranty
Thats all I can remember ATM and those cars are not even 12mos old yet while Ive had my genesis since feb '12.
Only thing dealer did was updated software for cold weather starts, though it doesnt matter since it doesnt get below 10 where I live.
The Genesis Coupe I agree is the closest vehicle to it and saying it has poor build quality with out first hand experience is like interwebs bench racing.
I personally own a Genesis and my cousin owns an FRS while her sister's BF owns a BRZ.
There have been many things that broke off or are issues with BOTH their cars than I can count., while I have never had anything go bad at triple their mileage. 22k vs. ~8k each.
Shifter trim part cracked while shifting on freeway on the FRS, dealer replaced part
Trunk open button stopped working after 1500 miles, bad wiring harness behind button, dealer replaced. I was there laughing at them but then realized they had my beers/ korean bbq ribs in there so the joke was on me
Left tailight developed a bad seal and had bad condesation in the BRZ, dealer repaired under warranty
Thats all I can remember ATM and those cars are not even 12mos old yet while Ive had my genesis since feb '12.
Only thing dealer did was updated software for cold weather starts, though it doesnt matter since it doesnt get below 10 where I live.
No way in hell would I drive a mustang. ESPECIALLY a base model. That is NOT a better car than the BRZ at anything.
Genesis. Yeah it's cheaper. BRZ/FRS is a better car. Genesis isn't all that much cheaper either.
You could say the miata as well... but it's a convertible and the FRS/BRZ is a better car in most every aspect.
370Z... you're comparing a year old "new" car with a new new car. I'm sure with incentives and things like that IF they were around that long you could get the FRS/BRZ for less too. I am pretty much looking at retail prices. And that car. The Z has more power but it also weighs more. I'd rather have the BRZ. Track performance is in the BRZ/FRS favor. Looks are in the BRZ/FRS behavior. Interior... I kinda like the BRZ better but the Z is more refined with some better materials.
All in all... I don't think it's a better car and realistically... it's more expensive.
The genesis is probably the closest comparison and I'd still rather have an FRS or BRZ. The genesis has more ponies but it's also turbo and in my opinion just doesn't have great build quality. I'd rather start with a better vehicle and do a few things to get a few more HP out of it. Even at 250 hp the BRZ is dramatically better.
I'd really like to see them come out with something with a bit more punch as the rest of the car is spot on.
Genesis. Yeah it's cheaper. BRZ/FRS is a better car. Genesis isn't all that much cheaper either.
You could say the miata as well... but it's a convertible and the FRS/BRZ is a better car in most every aspect.
370Z... you're comparing a year old "new" car with a new new car. I'm sure with incentives and things like that IF they were around that long you could get the FRS/BRZ for less too. I am pretty much looking at retail prices. And that car. The Z has more power but it also weighs more. I'd rather have the BRZ. Track performance is in the BRZ/FRS favor. Looks are in the BRZ/FRS behavior. Interior... I kinda like the BRZ better but the Z is more refined with some better materials.
All in all... I don't think it's a better car and realistically... it's more expensive.
The genesis is probably the closest comparison and I'd still rather have an FRS or BRZ. The genesis has more ponies but it's also turbo and in my opinion just doesn't have great build quality. I'd rather start with a better vehicle and do a few things to get a few more HP out of it. Even at 250 hp the BRZ is dramatically better.
I'd really like to see them come out with something with a bit more punch as the rest of the car is spot on.
01-02-2014, 10:22 PM
#57
pretty sure fr-s is double production of brz and that was only for 2013.
Anyway if you want one call clint at heuberger motors in co springs, CO he has like 50 and will give you a ripping deal, think at least 2k under msrp shipped not including tax/lic
Anyway if you want one call clint at heuberger motors in co springs, CO he has like 50 and will give you a ripping deal, think at least 2k under msrp shipped not including tax/lic
Last edited by slow04wrx; 01-02-2014 at 10:58 PM.
01-03-2014, 10:56 AM
#58
Registered User
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I wuv imprezeR with all muh heartz. CareBearZ fur
Posts: 582
Car Info: 05' Evo MR w/E85 - 10' Ralliart Sportback w/E85
I would imagine somebody could get a good deal right about now since the snow is falling there...
