http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/usabalrt.shtm the standard for saying that something is "made in the USA"

this is the best part:

If you believe that a product promoted as "Made in USA" is not America-made or contains significant foreign parts or processing, file a complaint with the FTC. If you are aware of import or export fraud, call the U.S. Customs Service Commercial Fraud Hotline, 1-800-ITS-FAKE.


here's an example on the FTC's site:

Example: All the major components of a computer, including the motherboard and hard drive, are imported. The computer’s components then are put together in a simple "screwdriver" operation in the U.S., are not substantially transformed under the Customs Standard, and must be marked with a foreign country of origin. An "Assembled in U.S." claim without further qualification is deceptive.


"THIS AUTO PART CONSISTS OF 100% FOREIGN PARTS CONTENT AND IS ASSEMBLED IN THE USA"

OR

"We make every widget in our 90000 square foot warehouse, which is NOT located in CHINA!"

lame

Edited Pending Full Turbocharger Test. Results To Follow.

la'me

editedd

Sorry to hear about your frustrations. You mention FP being deceptive --while there are many other companies similar in the automotive parts industry -- so why the projection all on FP?

If this is true, one can hardly blame FP.
Customers are too occupied with low prices & not high quality.
FP has to stay competitive while maintaining a profit to stay in business.
Hence, you get cheap parts.
It seems like FP is simply providing what the market wants.

while I dont agree with the OP projecting all the blame on FP, I do however agree that they are being a "little" deceptive by not divulging where the 18G turbos are from, If in fact that is the case, from a non-reputable source
my 2c

Sorry to hear about your frustrations. You mention FP being deceptive --while there are many other companies similar in the automotive parts industry -- so why the projection all on FP?

Well, there are laws that govern how imported auto parts are labeled. If you go to buy some brake pads from Pep Boys, it says clearly on the box "MADE IN CHINA" or "MADE IN THE USA." It is pretty clear where the parts came from.


It is true that the automotive aftermarket is kind of a grey area when it comes to this, but is that really the way it should be?

It's really a matter of lying about a product to add value. Consider how much a turbo from taiwan is worth versus a turbo that forced performance makes. Big ethical problem, and it's the same one that you see with ebay chinese turbo sellers.

People used to go on ebay and sell "garrett t25" turbos. Well, this was only because you can get more money for a garrett turbo than you can for a chinese t25. How do you increase the value of your product on ebay? Lie about it. Same kind of thing here.

If you went to pep boys and paid extra for the "made in the USA" brake pads because they were made in the USA, wouldn't you feel ripped off just a bit? If the parts cost the same, you would just feel lied to. If you paid a premium for something that was just a lie......

It seems like FP is simply providing what the market wants.

Well, the problem isn't what they are selling, really-it's with how they are doing it. You definitely CAN blame them for decieving customers.

I really don't think that the market wants to be lied to.......

Edited Pending Full Test Of Fp Turbo. Results To Follow.

this is the thread that I posted on NASIOC after I found out that FP was using TW turbos

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1272491

the FP reply, in it's entirety is on there

Is this you?

Turns out he is Brian Smothers the former owner of Momentum Turbo. Just to set the record straight, Momentum was actually not allowed back on NASIOC after repeated attempts to get them to stop fighting with members. The shop itself it also long gone.

Is this you?

(runs for popcorn and beer, turns off television)

Did you buy one of these or know anyone that had issues the the shop they picked it up from, or FP has not fixed?

Is this you?
sooooo waiting on the answer to this..........

Is this you?

Yep, sure is. Like I said, I know my taiwanese turbos.

Before this thread gets way outta control, please post all ad hominem attacks here

http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169890

And like I said before, I don't know anyone at FP, never did business with them, I'm not in business for myself. Nor am I in business with anyone that sells car parts-in fact, some of the people I am friends with actually sell FP turbos.....

Did you buy one of these or know anyone that had issues the the shop they picked it up from, or FP has not fixed?


Are the turbos any good? Probably. Just like the MOMENTUM units-there are plenty of those things still kicking out there. I just don't like FP going around trashing other people's taiwan turbos on other forums just to squash another vendor selling an identical product.....

EDIT: Does FP have good customer service? AFAIK, absolutely. Will any turbo problems be handled immediately? AFAIK, yep. Should FP disclose that their turbos are not mitsubishi turbos? You decide, I guess.

Not attacking you, just trying to get the big picture.

From my point of view, new dude shows up talking poorly about a known/established company/vendor.
Since this new dude knows way more than average joe, he comes across as someone from the industry with an axe to grind.
Do you?
If everything you claim is correct, are you just bitter that they haven't been "caught"?
How can you prove your claims?
It's difficult to follow all the links to all the various forums where you've gone.
Why did Nasioc ban you if you can prove your claims?

I completely agree with you with Taiwanese/Chinese/etc crappy rip off products from pens to turbos. It's down right criminal.

My business neighbor bought...not from me... a "Garret" turbo kit for a vehicle he has; it's a Taiwan knock off & I told him so.
It looks 80% real; no data tag, heavy flashing on the seams, etc.

Who knows how it will last, but one thing is sure, you get what you pay for.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/alerts/usabalrt.shtm the standard for saying that something is "made in the USA"

I got banned because someone reported me for posting that garrett GT30 turbos suck. Jokingly. Do I suck on the forums? Obviously! I closed that thread because I was so PO'd.... which, BTW, is not the best way to get people to try your turbos!


I completely agree with you with Taiwanese/Chinese/etc crappy rip off products from pens to turbos. It's down right criminal.

My business neighbor bought...not from me... a "Garret" turbo kit for a vehicle he has; it's a Taiwan knock off & I told him so.
It looks 80% real; no data tag, heavy flashing on the seams, etc.

Who knows how it will last, but one thing is sure, you get what you pay for.

I don't think it was taiwan-probably china. It is the same kind of thing, though-when you say you're selling a Garrett, it should be a true garrett. If you are selling a mitsubishi, it should be a mitsubishi. If not, make it clear so people know what they are buying.

Even worse, don't try to add value to a product by saying that you make it. No, it's make in Taiwan.

if FP buys the parts and assembles them in the US, then they can technically say that they are assembled in the US or a product of the US.

Ok I finally found it! This is the thread that got me permanently banned for life from NASIOC

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-851517.html

lifetime ban.

Yeah I know, not the best way to sell turbos, but I was totally unprepared for the flame action by far. I actually tried to report the thread to the moderators, but no one would do anything, because two of the people hijacking were moderators. God I hate nasioc!

If anyone wants to know how to get banned on NASIOC, just post this

"MomentumTurbos09-29-2005, 03:32 PM

I would like to restate for the record that you, Roo, are a butthole. Since no one is moderating this thread, I can just attack people, right?"

if FP buys the parts and assembles them in the US, then they can technically say that they are assembled in the US or a product of the US.

Well, you're probably correct. However, if they buy mitsubishi parts and assemble the turbo in the US, they can call it a mitsubishi. If they buy china/taiwan parts and call it a mitsubishi.......

Well, you're probably correct. However, if they buy mitsubishi parts and assemble the turbo in the US, they can call it a mitsubishi. If they buy china/taiwan parts and call it a mitsubishi.......

does it say mitsubishi or mitsubishi design?

does it say mitsubishi or mitsubishi design?

Judging by your reply, you have no problem with FP selling stuff made in taiwan?

I wonder how many of these 16/18/20g variants on the market come from the same manufacturer in Taiwan. It would really explain the lack of consistency and numerous unexplained failures. It seems that quality control among most of these turbos is almost non-existent. As far as FP... the only turbos from them I've actually been impressed with are the Green and Red. I wonder if these come from the same sources.

I wonder how many of these 16/18/20g variants on the market come from the same manufacturer in Taiwan. It would really explain the lack of consistency and numerous unexplained failures. It seems that quality control among most of these turbos is almost non-existent. As far as FP... the only turbos from them I've actually been impressed with are the Green and Red. I wonder if these come from the same sources.


The green is definitely now a taiwan turbo. In the past, it was MHI. The red probably is, but it looks like a genuine MHI cover. The easiest way to tell is the color of the bearing housing/turbine housing.

That's pretty much it-the taiwan factories don't have a QC process in place that is from the last 20 years. The only thing they do is take representative samples from inventory and test them.

AFAIK, Deadbolt uses genuine stuff, so does slowboy. Who else is pimping 18/20/16g turbos out there?

I had heard of this problem from another vendor in australia about the TW turbos

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1334960

blouch makes 18g's (i think that is how you spell it)

blouch makes 18g's (i think that is how you spell it)

I don't know for sure, but it looks like blouch uses a OEM mitsubishi compressor housing. Which means that they probably use a full mitsu turbo-if they could just buy the taiwan compressor housing and not machine it, I bet they would. I don't think anyone just buys a mitsubishi compressor housing so they can put a $100 machine job on it just to make it fit.

EDIT: I have never seen the blouch turbo up close-just making a comment based on their website.

I finally found the mark I've been talking about! This mark identifies a turbo as a taiwan turbo.
http://www.turbochargers.com/store/popup_image.php?pID=437

in the upper left, on the housing, behind/ left of the number sequence "49376", there is a logo-it's a "chsh" mark. THAT marks a turbo as a taiwan unit!

If anyone has a FP turbo, or any other "suspect" turbo, look for that mark. Also, note the dark color of the housing-the bearing housing (center housing)is the same color. OEM mitsubishi stuff is a lighter gray due to metal composition.

i am glad i only got a vf-34.

Here's another one

http://www.theturbotrader.com/index.php?cPath=60

Now, the problem here is that the turbo trader says

"This is a factory TD05H-16G with a 7cm2 WRX turbine housing. That has had the stock 90 degree elbow machined off so that it fits perfectly into the stock location. "

Not so much, turbo trader. Yes, the turbo is from a factory, but it's not the mitsubishi factory. If you look at the picture above where it says "turbo upgrades" on the page referenced above, that is a taiwan turbo. 100% Taiwan. I have an associate in town here who will remain nameless that ordered this "factory 16g" and sent it back because it's not a mitsubishi.

I will email the turbo trader to confirm all of this.

EDIT: it would be nice to know where the turbo trader gets his turbos, because that "super 16g" has the most generic looking non-OEM compressor housing ever......

Sent to the turbo trader:

"Hello

I am enquiring about your subaru 16g turbo. It seems to me that your turbo looks suspiciously like the taiwan turbos formerly sold by turbochargers.com and MOMENTUM. Where is your turbo made, and where did you get it from?

Please let me know, as I am very interested.

Brian"

Damn, these things are everywhere!

http://www.turbo-kits.com/wrx_turbo_kits.html

The top one is not a mitsubishi, unless they are selling something that looks different from the picture. Notice, they say that the brand is mitsubishi. We'll see.

"Hello

I am enquiring about your subaru 16g turbo. It seems to me that your turbo looks suspiciously like the taiwan turbos formerly sold by turbochargers.com and MOMENTUM. Where is your turbo made, and where did you get it from?

Please let me know, as I am very interested.

Brian"

unsubscribe.

if the green isn't part of this, and that's what's in the mail, then I don't care.

unsubscribe.

if the green isn't part of this, and that's what's in the mail, then I don't care.

It is. Please see

http://blouchturbo.com/turbos/WRX_TD05H-EVO_III_Big_16G-7CM2/

look at the back of the turbine housing, the shot where you can see the turbine wheel? Look at the letters.

Check out the green turbo

http://store.forcedperformance.net/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=FP&Product_Code=NTWRXFPGREEN

click and enlarge the picture that is the same angle....see the letters?

Look at this-same turbo, but the guy claims he makes them in Japan. Sound like familiar marketing strategy? Taiwan turbo "but we make it in japan."

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SUBARU-EJ20-EJ25-Upgrade-Turbocharger-TD05H-20G-420BHP_W0QQitemZ320153205257QQihZ011QQcategoryZ431 20QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotoh osting

this is interesting


"It is not a Taiwan made turbo... it uses the Mitsubishi compressor
housing
and the IHI exhaust housing... Not familiar with the other turbos
available
for the car, but ours is the "real deal"... let me know if you have any
further questions or would like to order. Thanks!


Please reply with a copy of the original message. Failure to do so may
result in your question not being answered.

Grant
Turbo Kits.com - Boost Your Horsepower
http://www.turbo-kits.com
860.676.2929
grant@turbo-kits.com"

I guess that is possible if they machine the compressor housing to fit. I asked for more pictures.

and turbo trader responded. Keep in mind, this is the guy who sent the turbo to denver and that same turbo was rejected because it was a fake mitsubishi.

"These were ordered directly from Mitsubishi. I do not have any more
instock. I need to take them off the web site.

Thanks

Nick M"


I have asked for more pictures, because I know that this guy has either been lied to or is lying to me.

unsubscribe.

if the green isn't part of this, and that's what's in the mail, then I don't care.

you come to a thread to post "unsubscribe" to something you do not want to be a part of?

:der:

I love the info but sad that my fp td05h-20g is probably made in taiwan and not "in house" hahah oh well it works and not like i'm gonna go take it out and ask my money back (to much work)

you come to a thread to post "unsubscribe" to something you do not want to be a part of?

:der:

it's more of the "forced performance saved my baby from a fire. Don't talk bad about them!" No matter that FP went from using mitsubishi stuff to using taiwan stuff and didn't bother to tell anyone. And then they bash another taiwan turbo like it's below them to use such junk.....

nevermind my turbo was assembled in the USA so at least thats what they claim so i'll just go by that to make myself feel better :peace:

nevermind my turbo was assembled in the USA so at least thats what they claim so i'll just go by that to make myself feel better :peace:

who knows where the hell it is made, really! They could be building them in the USA, for all I know, but come on. Do you really beleive them?

EDIT: I bet it was assembled in the USA by two medal of honor winners, because that's who forced performance employs, because they are a true american company full of heroes!

BTW, same thread in teh EVOLUTIONM forums? Banned. Thread deleted. Total "Forced performance is so good, they could make turbos out of tumors and they would still be perfect. HOW DARE YOU!"

OMG no wonder my FP 18g blew after 1 week!!! =O crap too bad i didnt take pics but i already sent it back to them to have them evaluate it...the compressor wheel scraped the housing...

greddy 18G?

OMG no wonder my FP 18g blew after 1 week!!! =O crap too bad i didnt take pics but i already sent it back to them to have them evaluate it...the compressor wheel scraped the housing...

Jake

When you talk to them, try and get a VERY detailed description of the problem if you can. Like you posted in your "failure" thread, they said the wheel was "aligned" improperly, which is BS.

Let me ask you, as a customer, do you feel ripped of in any way?

Grant



Thanks for your reply! I would highly reccomend that you change the picture on your website, as it looks EXACTLY like the pictures that tc.com/forced performance has up on their website of a subaru turbo manufactured in Taiwan.



In fact, the reason I contacted you was to sound the alarm, as it were, about what you are selling, as I was sure you were selling the Taiwan version of the MHI core.



Please check out



http://i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169887



Thanks for your time!



Brian

Grant Smith <grant@turbo-kits.com> wrote:

I do not… They are assembled to order so I do not have any pics of them complete… Let me know if you have any further questions or would like to order. Thanks!




Please reply with a copy of the original message. Failure to do so may result in your question not being answered.

Grant
Turbo Kits.com - Boost Your Horsepower
http://www.turbo-kits.com
860.676.2929
grant@turbo-kits.com



PRIVILEGE AND CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE

The information contained in this electronic mail message is proprietary and confidential under applicable law, and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the recipient of this message is not the above-named recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, copy or disclosure of this communication is prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately purge it without making any copy or distribution.





From: Steve Miller [mailto:subaruskie@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 5:01 PM
To: Grant Smith
Subject: RE: Turbo-Kits.com Contact Form - Subaru 16g turbos



Grant



Cool-do you have any better pictures of the turbos?





Grant Smith <grant@turbo-kits.com> wrote:

It is not a Taiwan made turbo... it uses the Mitsubishi compressor housing
and the IHI exhaust housing... Not familiar with the other turbos available
for the car, but ours is the "real deal"... let me know if you have any
further questions or would like to order. Thanks!


Please reply with a copy of the original message. Failure to do so may
result in your question not being answered.

Grant

well ill just wait for what they say...they did not reply back on me on it yet...ill probably call them tomorrow to follow up

well ill just wait for what they say...they did not reply back on me on it yet...ill probably call them tomorrow to follow up

EDITED PENDING FULL TURBOCHARGER TEST.

Guys,

I hope some of you can see thru the fog of slander and defamation that Brian Smothers is slinging against FP. He is motivated soley by his hatred for FP, not some sort of do-gooder, kind samaritan love for the common man origin. He tried selling turbos that were made in Tiawan and they mostly all failed for obvious reasons, just like Brian admits.

For some reason Brian cannot accept the fact that FP actually builds our own turbos, and have for over a decade. That decade has given us more experience in Mitsu based Hybrids than anyone else. Momentums turbos did not fail because they were made up of poor castings, they failed because of poorly made precision rotating parts inside the turbocharger. These precision parts MUST be correct, and not cheap knock offs - this is why we exclusively use MHI bearings and repair kits to build all our turbochargers.

These Tiawanese castings only allow us to reduce our prices and offer you a better product for less money, and that is something everyone is looking for. There are no problems or defects in these castings. Factories in Asia have been making high quality castings for decades, and there is nothing wrong with sourcing aftermarket parts from Tiawan. In fact it allows improvements that would be too expensive to make otherwise.

MHI would not consider making a new part for even FP, even though we were the largest distributor of MHI turbos in 2006 and likely again for 2007, they are just too busy. Sourcing the castings we want out of Tiawan is the perfect solution for obtaining castings that are made the way we want out of the material we want in the quantities we want. And this fact in no way degrades the quality of our turbochargers.

This entire slander campaign is simply due to Brian Smothers needs for revenge and an expression of his feeling that if he can't succeed in turbos then FP damn sure won't either. What he missed in his poorly conceived plan was our tremendous databank of experience regarding what we do best, build the best Mitsu-Garrett Hybrid turbos in the world.

Boost On!
Robert Young

Guys,

I hope some of you can see thru the fog of slander and defamation that Brian Smothers is slinging against FP. He is motivated soley by his hatred for FP, not some sort of do-gooder, kind samaritan love for the common man origin. He tried selling turbos that were made in Tiawan and they mostly all failed for obvious reasons, just like Brian admits.

For some reason Brian cannot accept the fact that FP actually builds our own turbos, and have for over a decade. That decade has given us more experience in Mitsu based Hybrids than anyone else. Momentums turbos did not fail because they were made up of poor castings, they failed because of poorly made precision rotating parts inside the turbocharger. These precision parts MUST be correct, and not cheap knock offs - this is why we exclusively use MHI bearings and repair kits to build all our turbochargers.

These Tiawanese castings only allow us to reduce our prices and offer you a better product for less money, and that is something everyone is looking for. There are no problems or defects in these castings. Factories in Asia have been making high quality castings for decades, and there is nothing wrong with sourcing aftermarket parts from Tiawan. In fact it allows improvements that would be too expensive to make otherwise.

MHI would not consider making a new part for even FP, even though we were the largest distributor of MHI turbos in 2006 and likely again for 2007, they are just too busy. Sourcing the castings we want out of Tiawan is the perfect solution for obtaining castings that are made the way we want out of the material we want in the quantities we want. And this fact in no way degrades the quality of our turbochargers.

This entire slander campaign is simply due to Brian Smothers needs for revenge and an expression of his feeling that if he can't succeed in turbos then FP damn sure won't either. What he missed in his poorly conceived plan was our tremendous databank of experience regarding what we do best, build the best Mitsu-Garrett Hybrid turbos in the world.

Boost On!
Robert Young

Thanks. It is always good to hear the other side of the story. Couple of questions:

1) Are the Taiwanese turbo castings cheaper than the MHI? I assume since you pass on the saving to your customers if you switched from Mitsu parts to Taiwan parts the total assembled turbo price dropped as well. Have there been any price drops from FP due to using the cheaper parts?

2) Does your quality control and incoming inspection record lot and batch numbers for at least the critical parts that you described? I think this would help with the case that defends your other parts coming from Japan.

well guys good news...FP is honoring the warranty on my turbo and this is wat robert replied to me with in regards to this topic of FP selling taiwan turbos

There is a guy that seriously hates FP posting a bunch of lies about our turbos being made in Taiwan. This is not true, we make our turbos ourselves in our own building here is Dallas. We buy some castings from Taiwan this is true, from the same place that this angry guy used to buy complete turbos - which failed and made this guy hate life. Those turbos he bought sucked because of the crappy factory in Taiwan building the turbos instead of people that knew what they were doing. They also had exploding compressor wheels in them, you can spot these wheels, they are almost white in color. We do not use these wheels, we use MHI wheels exclusively (appear grey as seen on our website). Our turbos which we build ourselves (we are regular white guys, not chinese guys) in our own plant are the highest quality Mitsu based turbos you can find. I'd appreciate you posting my comments so people will know the truth. I don't have an endless supply of time to bicker on the internet with this unemployed pissed off troll who has stated clearly that his goal is to ruin FP's business since his business failed.

Our turbos are not made in Taiwan.

Best Regards
Robert Young

heres a question, how can you tell if your turbo is a FP, blouch, deadbolt, etc? meaning, if you buy second hand from another i-clubber how do you know what you are really getting?

well guys good news...FP is honoring the warranty on my turbo and this is wat robert replied to me with in regards to this topic of FP selling taiwan turbos
of course they are-as it is stated everywhere in almost every thread online, they stand behind their stuff.

There is a guy that seriously hates FP posting a bunch of lies about our turbos being made in Taiwan. This is not true, we make our turbos ourselves in our own building here is Dallas. We buy some castings from Taiwan this is true, from the same place that this angry guy used to buy complete turbos - which failed and made this guy hate life. Oh jeez, I totally don't hate FP. I don't know them. As stated in the first post, I've never met them. Ever. What I do hate is the lies. They do not just buy some castings, and to say that is all they buy is a total lie! COME ON!!! Those turbos he bought sucked because of the crappy factory in Taiwan building the turbos instead of people that knew what they were doing. They also had exploding compressor wheels in them, you can spot these wheels, they are almost white in color. We do not use these wheels, we use MHI wheels exclusively (appear grey as seen on our website). Yes they did explode, but it was because they were balanced incorrectly-or so I was always told. Keep in mind, the turbo factory in Taiwan lies about everything, so when I stopped selling turbos, it was unclear as to what was really going on. Our turbos which we build ourselves (we are regular white guys, not chinese guys) in our own plant are the highest quality Mitsu based turbos you can find. See, that's what I don't like. What makes them mitsubishi turbos, a compressor wheel? What about the other parts? Isn't that dishonest? These turbos are copies of a mitsubishi design with taiwanese parts, so they are "Mitsubishi based?" I'd appreciate you posting my comments so people will know the truth. I don't have an endless supply of time to bicker on the internet with this unemployed pissed off troll who has stated clearly that his goal is to ruin FP's business since his business failed.
Yikes, that is not my stated goal! My goal is to rally race my car......I don't want to destroy anyone, I just want you all to know what you are buying and come to your own conclusions. For the record, I stopped doing business because the parts I was dealing with were not good enough. I could have just posted some nonsense about how only white people touch our turbos on the forums, but it seemed more ethical to just stop doing it.
Our turbos are not made in Taiwan.So none of the moving parts are taiwanese? Meh....

Guys,

I hope some of you can see thru the fog of slander and defamation that Brian Smothers is slinging against FP. He is motivated soley by his hatred for FP, not some sort of do-gooder, kind samaritan love for the common man origin. He tried selling turbos that were made in Tiawan and they mostly all failed for obvious reasons, just like Brian admits.

For some reason Brian cannot accept the fact that FP actually builds our own turbos, and have for over a decade. That decade has given us more experience in Mitsu based Hybrids than anyone else. Momentums turbos did not fail because they were made up of poor castings, they failed because of poorly made precision rotating parts inside the turbocharger. These precision parts MUST be correct, and not cheap knock offs - this is why we exclusively use MHI bearings and repair kits to build all our turbochargers.

These Tiawanese castings only allow us to reduce our prices and offer you a better product for less money, and that is something everyone is looking for. There are no problems or defects in these castings. Factories in Asia have been making high quality castings for decades, and there is nothing wrong with sourcing aftermarket parts from Tiawan. In fact it allows improvements that would be too expensive to make otherwise.

MHI would not consider making a new part for even FP, even though we were the largest distributor of MHI turbos in 2006 and likely again for 2007, they are just too busy. Sourcing the castings we want out of Tiawan is the perfect solution for obtaining castings that are made the way we want out of the material we want in the quantities we want. And this fact in no way degrades the quality of our turbochargers.

This entire slander campaign is simply due to Brian Smothers needs for revenge and an expression of his feeling that if he can't succeed in turbos then FP damn sure won't either. What he missed in his poorly conceived plan was our tremendous databank of experience regarding what we do best, build the best Mitsu-Garrett Hybrid turbos in the world.

Boost On!
Robert Young

EDITED PENDING FULL TURBOCHARGER TEST.

Thanks. It is always good to hear the other side of the story. Couple of questions:

1) Are the Taiwanese turbo castings cheaper than the MHI? I assume since you pass on the saving to your customers if you switched from Mitsu parts to Taiwan parts the total assembled turbo price dropped as well. Have there been any price drops from FP due to using the cheaper parts?

2) Does your quality control and incoming inspection record lot and batch numbers for at least the critical parts that you described? I think this would help with the case that defends your other parts coming from Japan.

If I may

1)They are actually better than MHI in a lot of ways, but they are not that cheap.

2)I believe that the compressor wheel and bearings are Japanese. I don't question the integrity of FP on this at all. Turbine wheel? Uh, no....

Are the forced performance turbos assembled in the USA? Robert says they are, and as far as I can gather, he is an honest guy. You can come to your own conclusions, I guess, about that.

Guys,

I hope some of you can see thru the fog of slander and defamation that Brian Smothers is slinging against FP. He is motivated soley by his hatred for FP, not some sort of do-gooder, kind samaritan love for the common man origin. He tried selling turbos that were made in Tiawan and they mostly all failed for obvious reasons, just like Brian admits.

For some reason Brian cannot accept the fact that FP actually builds our own turbos, and have for over a decade. That decade has given us more experience in Mitsu based Hybrids than anyone else. Momentums turbos did not fail because they were made up of poor castings, they failed because of poorly made precision rotating parts inside the turbocharger. These precision parts MUST be correct, and not cheap knock offs - this is why we exclusively use MHI bearings and repair kits to build all our turbochargers.

These Tiawanese castings only allow us to reduce our prices and offer you a better product for less money, and that is something everyone is looking for. There are no problems or defects in these castings. Factories in Asia have been making high quality castings for decades, and there is nothing wrong with sourcing aftermarket parts from Tiawan. In fact it allows improvements that would be too expensive to make otherwise.

MHI would not consider making a new part for even FP, even though we were the largest distributor of MHI turbos in 2006 and likely again for 2007, they are just too busy. Sourcing the castings we want out of Tiawan is the perfect solution for obtaining castings that are made the way we want out of the material we want in the quantities we want. And this fact in no way degrades the quality of our turbochargers.

This entire slander campaign is simply due to Brian Smothers needs for revenge and an expression of his feeling that if he can't succeed in turbos then FP damn sure won't either. What he missed in his poorly conceived plan was our tremendous databank of experience regarding what we do best, build the best Mitsu-Garrett Hybrid turbos in the world.

Boost On!
Robert Young

Also, if you want to promote your proucts, you should register as a vendor here.

Also, if you want to promote your proucts, you should register as a vendor here.

Since when did we make you a moderator? :confused:

I do not consider FP to be selling anything here. They are responding to accusations which is entirely within their rights. It is good for our members to hear both sides of any story and decide for themselves what is true. I hope you can understand that.

Since when did we make you a moderator? :confused:

I do not consider FP to be selling anything here. They are responding to accusations which is entirely within their rights. It is good for our members to hear both sides of any story and decide for themselves what is true. I hope you can understand that.

Sure, no problem. I have to say, i-club is probably the best board I have ever been on when it comes to fairness and moderation, and I would like to take the time to say "Thanks."

I noticed a couple of very significant questions in the midst of the mud slinging (which I am ignoring BTW, switched the troll to "ignore") that I'd like to answer for you guys. But I'd like you all to understand that I am unfamiliar with this sort of "free for all"environment where people can hide behind keyboards. It is unfamiliar to me that a man can call another man a liar and not suffer from it. I have never had a man stand in front of me and call me a liar and I doubt it will ever happen. Perhaps I'm a little old fashioned in that sense.

"1) Are the Taiwanese turbo castings cheaper than the MHI? I assume since you pass on the saving to your customers if you switched from Mitsu parts to Taiwan parts the total assembled turbo price dropped as well. Have there been any price drops from FP due to using the cheaper parts?"

As a matter of fact, yes it sure has. We have been able to drop the price of the very popular FP18g (we have always called our custom turbos by our own name to indicate that we make then ourselves). The FP18g used to cost $874 + $95 for porting. Now due to the improvements in casting supply, we offer it, with NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY, for $699 and in most cases no longer requires porting at all. On top of that it now has a 13-14psi actuator instead of the earlier 7-8psi actuator found on the $874 version.

So the savings is over $270. Wait, did I just say over $270? Yes I did. TWO HUNDRED AND SEVENTY DOLLARS LESS EXPENSIVE WITH NO REDUCTION IN QUALITY. And that is why we did it. What else can you buy for your car with that $270? You can get about 90 gallons of gasoline with it. You can buy a new electronic boost controller with it. You can pay for that hot rod flash tuner guy to flash your new combo a couple of times. You could take your girl out on one hell of a date. Point is I'm sure you can think of lots to do with the $270 you saved, and you'll never have to worry about your castings coming from Tiawan - it'll be the last thing on your mind.

"2) Does your quality control and incoming inspection record lot and batch numbers for at least the critical parts that you described? I think this would help with the case that defends your other parts coming from Japan."

We have always performed very detailed inspections of our Garrett, MHI and now Tiawan parts shipments. Prior to inventory even making it to the shelves random inspections of the lots are performed and signed off on. Not to mention the detailed blueprinting procedure that each turbocharger receives during assembly and balance. This is a procedure we have been honing and evolving for over a decade.

BOOST ON!

Robert Young

dang you both have evos haha

we both have EVO RS cars. Mine is lighter 'cuz it's a 04.

I noticed a couple of very significant questions in the midst of the mud slinging (which I am ignoring BTW, switched the troll to "ignore") that I'd like to answer for you guys. But I'd like you all to understand that I am unfamiliar with this sort of "free for all"environment where people can hide behind keyboards. It is unfamiliar to me that a man can call another man a liar and not suffer from it. I have never had a man stand in front of me and call me a liar and I doubt it will ever happen. Perhaps I'm a little old fashioned in that sense.


EDITED PENDING FULL TURBOCHARGER TEST. RESULTS TO FOLLOW.

And on a lighter note, what happens if FP employs a chinese person? Are they not allowed to touch the turbos because they are not white?

main land chineese people are allowed to work on them

but if they are from the island of taiwan they are fired if they look at the turbo wrong

:lol:

Well this isn't going to work, if I am on ignore ( I assume I am the troll?). I can't even be a e-tough guy if FP won't respond....Oh well, I can see the end of this thread raplidly approaching, eh?

I have no problem with calling FP dishonest to their face, but I am in Denver, so that would take a lot of time or money to do so. That's kind of the advantage of the internet, you can communicate in real time without having to be right next to the person.

Even though FP won't respond, I'll make the analogy again. If you have merchandise that is just a copy of an origional, one way to increase it's value is to lie about either it's brand/trade name, or lie about where it is made. That is why it is illegal to sell fake Rolex watches-the seller creates the impression that you are buying a Rolex, but really you are buying a fake copy that is not as good.

If no one questions where the rolex is made before they buy it, is it still dishonest to let people believe that it is a real rolex, or are you in the clear because your buyer doesn't ask you beforehand "is this a real rolex?"

Or even better, if a company builds a reputation on geniune goods, like a line of trucks, say the Ford F-150, is it dishonest of Ford to start selling a truck called a F-150 that is made in Mexico after they built a reputation on trucks made in the USA? Some of the sources of parts will be different, but the truck is still called a F-150. Is it still the same truck?

In the case of the Ford trucks, it is not all that dishonest, because you can look at the window sticker and see the parts content right there in front of you, and you can see just where the thing is made. The question is, is a Ford F-150 made in Kansas City the same as a Ford F-150 made in Mexico? A ford is a ford is a ford, no?

And what makes a turbo a mitsubishi based turbo? If the bearings and a compressor wheel are mitsubishi, but the bearing housing, turbine wheel, turbine housing, compressor housing, wastegate actuator, and all the misc. nuts and bolts are taiwanese, is that still a mitsubishi based turbo? Or is it just a Forced Performance turbo? That should be enough, but stop calling it a mitsubishi, for god's sake! You can't call a watch a rolex unless it's made by rolex!



And on a lighter note, what happens if FP employs a chinese person? Are they not allowed to touch the turbos because they are not white?

Please take future exchanges with FP to PM or email or :eek: telephone. We don't need your personal issues hashed out on our forum. You've said your peace and FP has provided a response. Anything further will just degenerate into drama. I'd venture to guess that's what got you banned on the other forums and I can tell you that's what will get you banned from this site.

Thank you.

Please take future exchanges with FP to PM or email or :eek: telephone. We don't need your personal issues hashed out on our forum. You've said your peace and FP has provided a response. Anything further will just degenerate into drama. I'd venture to guess that's what got you banned on the other forums and I can tell you that's what will get you banned from this site.

Thank you.

No problem, wilco.

However, FP gets to call me a troll, and an unemployed failure and I don't get to respond? Dang! I don't have any personal issues with them, I just don't like being called names....it makes me sad.

That being said, OK.

I have posted what got me banned, for anyone who is following this-just scroll back a few pages, if you are interested.

No problem, wilco.

However, FP gets to call me a troll, and an unemployed failure and I don't get to respond? Dang! I don't have any personal issues with them, I just don't like being called names....it makes me sad.

That being said, OK.

I have posted what got me banned, for anyone who is following this-just scroll back a few pages, if you are interested.

It certainly seems that you do have issues with them, I mean you have constantly stated the same thing over and over regardless of FP's responses.

Whether those issues are personally or not motivated I can see how FP's Robert is taking them personally after all he owns the business and obviously does give a **** about not only his companies image but also his customers.

Just my 0.2c

Mike

It certainly seems that you do have issues with them, I mean you have constantly stated the same thing over and over regardless of FP's responses.

Whether those issues are personally or not motivated I can see how FP's Robert is taking them personally after all he owns the business and obviously does give a **** about not only his companies image but also his customers.

Just my 0.2c

Mike

I understand what you are saying. What is your analysis of the whole situation? Do you think I am lying? Or making things up? or?

I understand what you are saying. What is your analysis of the whole situation? Do you think I am lying? Or making things up? or?

Unless I am missing something you have stated that FP is using parts sourced from Taiwan/China to build turbo's from, also Robert from FP has stated that he is using parts sourced from Taiwan/China to build turbo's from so being as neither is contending that it would seem that your issue is his verbage on his website and how it is worded or how it can be interperated.

To be quite honest given the responses by Robert and the fact that FP clearly has reduced it's prices on certain turbo's due to lower cost to manufacture gained by sourcing the parts elsewhere yet they still assemble the turbo's in house I personally think that the wording on the website is fairly reasonable.

Mike

crap there's a price reduction already i guess i bought at the wrong time =(

"Disclaimer: While all FP turbochargers are built in our Dallas Texas plant, castings may have various countries of origin other than the US. Some castings are made in Japan, Tiawan, and Canada. I'm sure this is no surprise, however due to a recent Slander Campaign against FP claiming that our turbos are made in China we wish to have the facts readily available for all to see. Our quality is second to none, and our heart and soul goes into each of our turbos. We build all our own turbos in our own plant with the exception of the ones listed as MHI or Garrett official part numbers. These Official OEM part numbered turbos are not made by FP, but rather come directly from Garrett or Mitsubishi Turbo, a division of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. "

slander-The oral utterance or spreading of a falsehood harmful to another's reputation.

oh here we go. Textbook example as to why this stuff is important. Remember, the turbine wheels are from taiwan.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169987

Turbine shaft failure, anyone?

oh here we go. Textbook example as to why this stuff is important. Remember, the turbine wheels are from taiwan.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169987

Turbine shaft failure, anyone?
You're now attempting to hijack other threads in an effort to continue your smear campaign against Forced Performance. You've already violated the intent of this particular Vendor Review sub-forum. In case you missed the forum description, here it is:
Feel free to discuss vendor experiences but please don't use the forum as your own private soapbox to perpetually bash specific vendors.
You registered as a member on i-Club with the sole intent to bash FP. I've read your claims that you are just getting the facts out there and doing this as a public service. Bull****. Judging by your posts on the subject, you are not doing this for the benefit of others - you are doing it because you are obsessed with perpetuating yourself on car forums.

When NASIOC and EvolutionM.net shut you down, you just had to find another outlet. Of course, you had to come onto this board and bash the other boards as oppressive and unwilling to let you get the word out to the world, with the implication that if i-Club isn't oppressive like NASIOC, we would allow you to post indefinitely. It doesn't work that way, but nice try at manipulating us to allow you to continue. I didn't visit the other boards to read your linked threads because I don't care what transpired on other message boards. It's the internet! Those are privately-owned message boards. Give your ego a rest, already. Do you think you can do that?

"Disclaimer: While all FP turbochargers are built in our Dallas Texas plant, castings may have various countries of origin other than the US. Some castings are made in Japan, Tiawan, and Canada. I'm sure this is no surprise, however due to a recent Slander Campaign against FP claiming that our turbos are made in China we wish to have the facts readily available for all to see. Our quality is second to none, and our heart and soul goes into each of our turbos. We build all our own turbos in our own plant with the exception of the ones listed as MHI or Garrett official part numbers. These Official OEM part numbered turbos are not made by FP, but rather come directly from Garrett or Mitsubishi Turbo, a division of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries. "

slander-The oral utterance or spreading of a falsehood harmful to another's reputation.


I have never said FP turbos are made in china, and I have never said anything I knew to be false. I also never intended to injure FP's reputation. Actually, FP's reputation has proven to be bullteproof due to their customer service/warranties. All I wanted to do was to get the facts out there. The facts are out there now, even though FP only admits to sourcing "castings," and not a turbine wheel. Oh well.


You guys have all the facts, and now you know exactly what you are buying. It's on the website now.

I thought I told you to stop?

And I thought you agreed to stop?

Go grind your axe somewhere else - you've out stayed your welcome here.

close the thread, close the thread!!!

You're now attempting to hijack other threads in an effort to continue your smear campaign against Forced Performance. You've already violated the intent of this particular Vendor Review sub-forum. In case you missed the forum description, here it is:
Yeah I hijacked the threads that were about compressor surge by asking if the turbo made a noise before it died. You know what, this is crazy. Suddenly the thread is all about me and I'm defending myself. What happened?

You registered as a member on i-Club with the sole intent to bash FP. I've read your claims that you are just getting the facts out there and doing this as a public service. Bull****. Judging by your posts on the subject, you are not doing this for the benefit of others - you are doing it because you are obsessed with perpetuating yourself on car forums.
What is your analysis of what I have stated in this thread?
When NASIOC and EvolutionM.net shut you down, you just had to find another outlet. I am actually banned for life on NASIOC. I started the EVOM thread after I started this one, by about a week. I started this thread because I saw the turbo in person, which was about a month or so after I tried to start the NASIOC thread. Of course, you had to come onto this board and bash the other boards as oppressive and unwilling to let you get the word out to the world, with the implication that if i-Club isn't oppressive like NASIOC, we would allow you to post indefinitely. and now the thread is all about me and what I have done. It doesn't work that way, but nice try at manipulating us to allow you to continue. I didn't visit the other boards to read your linked threads because I don't care what transpired on other message boards. I didn't know that is what I was doing. I thought I was posting in a thread about taiwan sourced turbo parts. A long time ago (2005) I was very much dissapointed with the idea of forums, because I found out that they were not about facts or discussion or ideas or even communication. Way back then, I was pretty bitter when I found out that forums are about people teaming up on someone to call them names, and the Forums, especially the large ones, are more like a hobby for people. It's not about learning or communicating, it's about having fun making posts like "You're such a noob, do a search!"

And now it's 2007, and I have realized in the time since I last tried to be active in the forums that the forums are about people anonomously reading threads, gleaning information, and moving on. Look at how many people have viewed this thread, and look at how many people have posted! I would really be interested in finding the opinion of just half of those who have read this thread. Instead, I only get the opinions of those who think I am being a turd, or those who just want to say something clever. That's too bad!

In a world where thousands of like minded enthusiasts can be linked together and communicate with each other, all we can do is post things that no one responds to. To the thousand or so people who have read this thread, please know that who I am or where I have been has nothing to do with any of this. Facts are facts, and I could be the worst person in the world with the worst intentions, but it doesn't change anything in this thread.

I-club, thanks for the space, and thanks for hearing me out.

"And now it's 2007, and I have realized in the time since I last tried to be active in the forums that the forums are about people anonomously reading threads, gleaning information, and moving on. Look at how many people have viewed this thread, and look at how many people have posted! I would really be interested in finding the opinion of just half of those who have read this thread. Instead, I only get the opinions of those who think I am being a turd, or those who just want to say something clever. That's too bad!"

I think that you have already obtained the "opinion of those who read this thread." BTW, stop accusing products from Taiwan are crap. Makes you sound like a racist. I'm sure that certain things from certain Asian countries are not as well made than things made in the US, but there are certain things that are from made in Asia (including Taiwan) that are actually better made than the US. And just to let you know, I am not from Taiwan. But with your tone of voice, I'm sure you'll get a lot of Taiwanese people pissed off. Although I am not from Taiwan, I have visited the country quite a few times so don't tell me how much you think you know about Taiwan. And please watch what you post from now on.

"And now it's 2007, and I have realized in the time since I last tried to be active in the forums that the forums are about people anonomously reading threads, gleaning information, and moving on. Look at how many people have viewed this thread, and look at how many people have posted! I would really be interested in finding the opinion of just half of those who have read this thread. Instead, I only get the opinions of those who think I am being a turd, or those who just want to say something clever. That's too bad!"

I think that you have already obtained the "opinion of those who read this thread." BTW, stop accusing products from Taiwan are crap. Makes you sound like a racist. I'm sure that certain things from certain Asian countries are not as well made than things made in the US, but there are certain things that are from made in Asia (including Taiwan) that are actually better made than the US. And just to let you know, I am not from Taiwan. But with your tone of voice, I'm sure you'll get a lot of Taiwanese people pissed off. Although I am not from Taiwan, I have visited the country quite a few times so don't tell me how much you think you know about Taiwan. And please watch what you post from now on.
HEE LOW haha

i dont think he is saying the taiwaneese people as a whole suck, I think he is saying the people he delt with were shady. The products they made for him were second rate. He admits this is why his turbos blew up

FP said white people making turbos >

In general, Taiwan made products can't be compared quality-wise to US made products.
Having been the plant engineer & QA manager of a heavy manufacturing facility for 7yrs gives the the right to say this.
I have seen various cloned parts from various counties and in every case the cloned parts had a higher failure/reject rate.

Not picking on FP, but I'd like to know how much more FPs turbochargers would cost if all the parts were made here in North America.

Only FP knows what their failure rate is due to Taiwan made parts vs Canadian made parts vs US made parts.
But I'd venture a guess that Taiwan made parts have a higher failure/reject rate.
FP obviously knows what they're doing, having endured/enjoyed many years as a turbo manufacturer.

In general, Taiwan made products can't be compared quality-wise to US made products.
Having been the plant engineer & QA manager of a heavy manufacturing facility for 7yrs gives the the right to say this.
I have seen various cloned parts from various counties and in every case the cloned parts had a higher failure/reject rate.

Not picking on FP, but I'd like to know how much more FPs turbochargers would cost if all the parts were made here in North America.

Only FP knows what their failure rate is due to Taiwan made parts vs Canadian made parts vs US made parts.
But I'd venture a guess that Taiwan made parts have a higher failure/reject rate.
FP obviously knows what they're doing, having endured/enjoyed many years as a turbo manufacturer.
japan > usa in build quality

closer tolerences

I think that you have already obtained the "opinion of those who read this thread." BTW, stop accusing products from Taiwan are crap. Makes you sound like a racist. I'm sure that certain things from certain Asian countries are not as well made than things made in the US, but there are certain things that are from made in Asia (including Taiwan) that are actually better made than the US. And just to let you know, I am not from Taiwan. But with your tone of voice, I'm sure you'll get a lot of Taiwanese people pissed off. Although I am not from Taiwan, I have visited the country quite a few times so don't tell me how much you think you know about Taiwan. And please watch what you post from now on.

I have not obtained the opinion of a huge majority of readers of this thread. If there are 1600 views and 83 posts, most of them by me, that is a pretty low rate of posting, for sure. Don't assume that you or anyone else speaks for the majority of readers.

I am pretty sure that I have a lot of people from taiwan pissed off that are reading this thread, for sure! (Hi Mark!)

I have also been to Taiwan, and the Taiwanese people are cool as hell. It's like anywhere else-taiwan can build to spec. If the specs are crap, so is the product.

Why do you assume that I am a racist? I am pretty sure that the MOMENTUM turbos speak pretty loudly for themselves-when you cut corners and create a corporate culture that is not comitted to perfection, you make crap. Doesn't matter who is making the product where, it happens every time. The product that I sold was crap 20% of the time because of the way the assembly factory was set up. It wasn't because the people were taiwanese!

The Taiwanese people can make a great turbo, but not under the conditions that they are working under. It has nothing to do with race, and everything to do with bad management. The MOMENTUM turbos were 100% made in Taiwan, and they only worked only 80% of the time.

Thank you for clearing that up. I am not saying you literally stated that everything from Taiwan is crap, it's just that all your posts have that tone to it. And yes, I have to agree with Paul@dbtuned that "cloned merchandise" made in Asia cannot be comparable to US made products. But believe it or not Paul, Taiwan does have brand named companies (not the ones that make knockoffs) that make quality products. A lot of their IT products have better technology than us here. That's why a lot of computer products are from Taiwan........they're cheap and the quality is actually pretty darn good. Some people might not even know it, but a lot of computer hardware components in our computers (or other gadgets) have Taiwan made products in them. Okay, with that said I'll stay away from this long dragging thread.

most of the reasons parts are made over there is the price of employees.

Taiwan turbo, do you have some kind of statistics showing that FP turbos are worse now? Any evidence to support trying to turn everyone away from there turbos?

his evidence is the blown turbo threads

and he doesnt have FP stats he doesnt work there

You can pay for that hot rod flash tuner guy to flash your new combo a couple of times.

Mioke needs to make this his title :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

japan > usa in build quality

closer tolerences

That's kinda why we all bought Japanese vehicles rioght?

That's kinda why we all bought Japanese vehicles rioght?
even the mitsu dodge thing you buy the mitsu made dodge

now the n00bs get a USA built subaru :rolleyes:

Who cares where the damn turbo comes from... If the damn thng works. It works.. I dont care one bit. They have good customer service.... They have some good turbos. The I'm sure check each one before its sold..

Once Again... Quit with the witch hunt ..... Who cares....
If it works... Make it in mexico for all I care.


<-- I use Deadbolt turbos and Power Enterprise..

I think 06Sti hit the nail on the head
It shouldn't be about where the darn thing is made, as long as the product does what its promised to do and perform to the customer's expectations, it's a good product.
having worked in the Electronics world for the last 7 yrs, I can relate to this since everybody loves sony, and sony HD tvs are made in Mexico, doesn't mean they are bad products with astronomical fail rates
my 2Cents

PikkaGTR, I totally agree with ya!

Hi,

My name is Bruce Kwartler and I am new to this board. I just purchased a 2002 WRX wagon which I love.

I have been dealing with Robert Young at FP for almost 10 years now with my DSMs. I currently have a FP 3065 turbo on my 92 Talon that has run 10.5 @ 137 mph. I have been dealing with Robert so long -- even when he was back with Texas Rebuild.

I would highly reccomend doing business with FP and Rob. I have had only good experiences with 5 or 6 different FP turbos.

I want to upgrade the turbo on my WRX -- and when I do -- I will go to FP for a 16G.

--Bruce Kwartler
www.punisher-racer.com

lame

oh, dang! no, you're a loser. yep, I'm an ex customer-I bought nuclear weapons smuggled in through pakistan from them, and they JILTED me. Allah Akbar!

^^ Dude get a life.. ^^

I bet if I searched hard enough... I'd find your a pissed off x employee or a pos customer...

But I'm not a loser such as yourself and dont have time to dig up and start ****.

even the mitsu dodge thing you buy the mitsu made dodge

now the n00bs get a USA built subaru :rolleyes:

hey, I have a mitsu dodge srt4, it's a fast car! But the engine is made in Mexico, and it's the "global" turbo engine that Hyundai also sells. USA!USA!USA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Engine_Manufacturing_Alliance

most of the reasons parts are made over there is the price of employees.

Taiwan turbo, do you have some kind of statistics showing that FP turbos are worse now? Any evidence to support trying to turn everyone away from there turbos?


:RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: No, but I have evidence about flying twin engine airplanes into the pentagon......:RockOn - not mine:

Taiwan Turbo:
Let me just say that the few threads that you have provided as proof are hardly damning evidence that Fp is using inferior products. Of all the turbochargers they sell, some will obviously fail, its the nature of man made product, a small percentage fails. But so long as a mojority operate as intended who gives a s*$t if they come from taiwan or assembled in the us, or any other combination of origin and assembly.

So long as the product works, im taken care of if the product dosen't work, they could have chimps make them for all i care.

You sound as if you have a personal vendetta against FP. You say you dont but all this effort is intended to prove a point. I hope this thread gets deleted sometime soon.

Gay!!!

Taiwan Turbo:
Let me just say that the few threads that you have provided as proof are hardly damning evidence that Fp is using inferior products. Of all the turbochargers they sell, some will obviously fail, its the nature of man made product, a small percentage fails. But so long as a mojority operate as intended who gives a s*$t if they come from taiwan or assembled in the us, or any other combination of origin and assembly.

So long as the product works, im taken care of if the product dosen't work, they could have chimps make them for all i care.

You sound as if you have a personal vendetta against FP. You say you dont but all this effort is intended to prove a point. I hope this thread gets deleted sometime soon.

yep, personal vendetta. I was a paratrooper with the 203rd airborne, in Panama, and FP damn near got me killed by a sniper when he called me "Colonel" really loud at the base...Ever since that day, I vowed to destroy them....

NO! Didn't happen!

Taiwan Turbo:
Let me just say that the few threads that you have provided as proof are hardly damning evidence that Fp is using inferior products. Of all the turbochargers they sell, some will obviously fail, its the nature of man made product, a small percentage fails. But so long as a mojority operate as intended who gives a s*$t if they come from taiwan or assembled in the us, or any other combination of origin and assembly.

So long as the product works, im taken care of if the product dosen't work, they could have chimps make them for all i care.

You sound as if you have a personal vendetta against FP. You say you dont but all this effort is intended to prove a point. I hope this thread gets deleted sometime soon.

GAH! White people don't make all the parts, so I hate the turbos. Big time!

:RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: No, but I have evidence about flying twin engine airplanes into the pentagon......:RockOn - not mine:

Now your acting like a 12YR. old .......

All if any Credibility you had seems to be gone now....you should be gone now!!

where's Dre???

yep, personal vendetta. I was a paratrooper with the 203rd airborne, in Panama, and FP damn near got me killed by a sniper when he called me "Colonel" really loud at the base...Ever since that day, I vowed to destroy them....

NO! Didn't happen!

:RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: :RockOn - not mine: No, but I have evidence about flying twin engine airplanes into the pentagon......:RockOn - not mine:

hey, I have a mitsu dodge srt4, it's a fast car! But the engine is made in Mexico, and it's the "global" turbo engine that Hyundai also sells. USA!USA!USA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Engine_Manufacturing_Alliance

oh, dang! no, you're a loser. yep, I'm an ex customer-I bought nuclear weapons smuggled in through pakistan from them, and they JILTED me. Allah Akbar!

Your profile says you're 47 years old. Was that a data entry error on your part?

hey, did you guys hear that the FP turbos were made in Taiwan??

Now your acting like a 12YR. old .......

All if any Credibility you had seems to be gone now....you should be gone now!!
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.swf

i did not make it i do not endorse it

but it raises a few good questions

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.swf

i did not make it i do not endorse it

but it raises a few good questions

Please start a separate thread for this crap with your buddy itchybong.

Mod Fight!!!!

Mod Fight!!!!
haha caps filter got you

hey, did you guys hear that the FP turbos were made in Taiwan??

No, I heard they were made in the USA. Right?

where's Dre???

nowadays, everybody want to talk like they got something to say, but NOTHING comes out when they move their lips "**** this, and **** that" like they forgot about DRE!

^^ +1 for a ban ^^

^^ +1 for a ban ^^

It's much more fun to watch this guy make a fool of himself. It pretty much negates everything he had to say and proves why he was banned on other forums.

But I am going to close the thread to preserve the posts. I think all that can be said has been said.