Muay Thai vs. Taekwondo
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wow, that guy was fknn him up, I like the sportsmanship of that guy, he waited for him to recover, then continued the azzwhoopinnn....good clip
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Originally Posted by bluewrx82
you dont have to thai to be good, check out ernesto hoost
As for Belfort vs. Silva, you could really attribute Silva's loss to the nature of the UFC octagon and his lack of experience fighting in it. I personally believe that the UFC attracts a lot of grapplers because aside from the first champions being grapplers (Gracie, Shamrock, etc.) that the octagon is better suited for wrestlers especially with the fenced walls. Silva got backed into a wall, then ate a series of straights. Had they fought in a ring with ropes (i.e. Pride), I think Silva could've had a good chance of knocking him out.
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I agree that in this day and age, it's about the fighter more than the style.
My analysis of the clip is that we have a fairly skilled TKD practitioner (at least in terms of physical and technical ability) facing off against a shoddy Muay Thai practitioner. The Muay Thai fighter obviously has little ring experience as apparent in the way he turns his head away and retreats, and in the way that he just doesn't do anything in terms of offense OR defense. The TKD fighter seems to have more ring experience and knows he's facing a weaker opponent as is apparent in his physicial "attitude" (eg hands-down stance, showy techniques, etc.). But one thing that I noticed is that the TKD fighter's kicks while accurate seem to lack power. A good hard kick to the head is usually enough to put someone out cold, and here our hapless little Muay Thai fighter has taken at least 3 to the head and yet is still scampering around.
Conclusion: Here, TKD fighter has more experience than the Muay Thai fighter. Poor overall representation of the styles facing off. My 2 cents.
P.S. Although my personal style is Muay Thai, I've always been a real fan of TKD and believe that with a little bit of modernization TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. TKD is a near perfection of kicking techniques IMHO and if it could incorporate knees and a Thai style roundhouse with its standard speedy roundhouse, TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. With the addition of more upper body techniques (eg punching, elbowing, etc.) and clinching, it'd be a great standup style. But then again, it wouldn't really be TKD anymore huh? Just thinking out loud
My analysis of the clip is that we have a fairly skilled TKD practitioner (at least in terms of physical and technical ability) facing off against a shoddy Muay Thai practitioner. The Muay Thai fighter obviously has little ring experience as apparent in the way he turns his head away and retreats, and in the way that he just doesn't do anything in terms of offense OR defense. The TKD fighter seems to have more ring experience and knows he's facing a weaker opponent as is apparent in his physicial "attitude" (eg hands-down stance, showy techniques, etc.). But one thing that I noticed is that the TKD fighter's kicks while accurate seem to lack power. A good hard kick to the head is usually enough to put someone out cold, and here our hapless little Muay Thai fighter has taken at least 3 to the head and yet is still scampering around.
Conclusion: Here, TKD fighter has more experience than the Muay Thai fighter. Poor overall representation of the styles facing off. My 2 cents.
P.S. Although my personal style is Muay Thai, I've always been a real fan of TKD and believe that with a little bit of modernization TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. TKD is a near perfection of kicking techniques IMHO and if it could incorporate knees and a Thai style roundhouse with its standard speedy roundhouse, TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. With the addition of more upper body techniques (eg punching, elbowing, etc.) and clinching, it'd be a great standup style. But then again, it wouldn't really be TKD anymore huh? Just thinking out loud
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Originally Posted by verc
Hah, well if you watch enough Pride and UFC, and moreso K-1, you will see people get hit (and knocked out) by all sorts of whacked sh.it
Well, I don't think TKD in the WTF form will ever be a real force to be reckoned with. The olympic style has just evolved to be too sport orientated - sacrificing force for speed and precision. The triple flying kick thiny was a great move to catch the guy off guard, but I seriously doubt that third kick did much damage.
What I like about TKD technique: the front kick and side kick. These can be great jabbing type moves since the MT front kick is more of a pushing move than a striking one.
What I don't like about TKD technique: I think the spinning hook kick spin back whip thingymajig kick is a big weakness in MMA. (well duh I've never seen anyone pull of of those off) Of course that move isn't just flashy - it's got a lot of power and great knockout potential and a lot of tournament TKD and karate knockouts have come from a non-telegraphed front leg hook kick. The hook is key since cause don't forget kinetic energy goes as the square of velocity. However a guy who trains in boxing has his head protected at all times and the spinning kick just isn't going to cut it. Like I mentioned it's fast and from a physics standpoint delievers huge 'impulse', shock, but has virtually no weight behind it. If you threw a spinning kick against a boxer braced for impact it would mess up your own balance big time.
Another weakness is the roundhouse kick as taught to return to fighting stance. In TKD point sparring (where you can only strike above the waist) you don't want to do a full power roundhouse because you'll land in a square stance (unless you throw it moving forward and the opponent is moving back - then you don't have a fear of getting hit) and be open so you'll throw quick one with your rear leg that snaps and then goes back to stance. That just won't cut it in MMA. TKD is orientated around high mobility to expose the opponent and score points - MMA just isn't like that.
However credit is due. That "triple flying kick thingy"? That move is F'ing hard. Don't forget this movie is in slow-mo. I don't think that many people can pull that one off, bap bap bap. 1.5 seconds to pull off those three kicks. It's not that easy to grab a fast kick, though what the boxers who transition to kickboxing do that is very effective is dropping your guard to bait a kick. (you're crouched) The opponent will aim high, you shrug and stand up and the kick hit's your upper arm. You curl the arm up and grab the kick and go for a takedown. It's too brutal for a fightsport but it would be cool if they allowed headbutts; I bet there'd be a few great reversals from a guy smashing his forehead into the other guy's nose.
However just as people can train to avoid submissions, people can train to have their kicks not be grabbed.
Nevertheless, if the guy did a split step and moved in, the TKD guy could have been f'd. Of course that's a big if. The BIG THING to remember when watching these videos of two different styles in combat is that you're not going to take advantage of an "acrobatic" move's weakness if you don't know what it is. If someone pulls some whacked move on you it's a big gamble to see an "opportunity" and move in - what if it's a trick? I just love it in the rare instance when a guy gets smacked with a spinning backfist in MMA fights - I know they never saw that coming.
Summary: Some TKD moves have great potential as striking hits. But some of TKD's great speed knockout moves just don't have the weight behind them to do real damage against a fortified opponent. TKD's KO roundhouse with a lot of weight put behind it is great of course - but you already know that because you do see some high roundhouse kicks to the head being thrown in Pride and UFC. In TUF season 2, Josh blocked one of Melvin's high roundhouses but it still broke his arm!
Granted you have six pack abs and super core strength, a roundhouse thrown with 100 percent of your WHOLE body strength whipped 180 degrees, I'll bet that's the most damaging move in terms of force delivered a person can deliver. And indeed the MT roundhouse is just that, and very devastating. But too bad they don't do as much damage kicking tree trunk legs.
And here's another thing: some moves wil absolutely f..k up a beginner so people will get fooled into thinking "O this move is so great" but in reality it's only great against people who can't defend against it. But then again the same can be said of all movements. I mean you see so many times a guy just getting out of an armbar for example, because the other wrapped his legs around his head and he knows he's about to get armbarred. The arm bar fails since the "victim" was able to remain in a body position to apply maximum force to resist the submission.
What I like about TKD technique: the front kick and side kick. These can be great jabbing type moves since the MT front kick is more of a pushing move than a striking one.
What I don't like about TKD technique: I think the spinning hook kick spin back whip thingymajig kick is a big weakness in MMA. (well duh I've never seen anyone pull of of those off) Of course that move isn't just flashy - it's got a lot of power and great knockout potential and a lot of tournament TKD and karate knockouts have come from a non-telegraphed front leg hook kick. The hook is key since cause don't forget kinetic energy goes as the square of velocity. However a guy who trains in boxing has his head protected at all times and the spinning kick just isn't going to cut it. Like I mentioned it's fast and from a physics standpoint delievers huge 'impulse', shock, but has virtually no weight behind it. If you threw a spinning kick against a boxer braced for impact it would mess up your own balance big time.
Another weakness is the roundhouse kick as taught to return to fighting stance. In TKD point sparring (where you can only strike above the waist) you don't want to do a full power roundhouse because you'll land in a square stance (unless you throw it moving forward and the opponent is moving back - then you don't have a fear of getting hit) and be open so you'll throw quick one with your rear leg that snaps and then goes back to stance. That just won't cut it in MMA. TKD is orientated around high mobility to expose the opponent and score points - MMA just isn't like that.
However credit is due. That "triple flying kick thingy"? That move is F'ing hard. Don't forget this movie is in slow-mo. I don't think that many people can pull that one off, bap bap bap. 1.5 seconds to pull off those three kicks. It's not that easy to grab a fast kick, though what the boxers who transition to kickboxing do that is very effective is dropping your guard to bait a kick. (you're crouched) The opponent will aim high, you shrug and stand up and the kick hit's your upper arm. You curl the arm up and grab the kick and go for a takedown. It's too brutal for a fightsport but it would be cool if they allowed headbutts; I bet there'd be a few great reversals from a guy smashing his forehead into the other guy's nose.
However just as people can train to avoid submissions, people can train to have their kicks not be grabbed.
Nevertheless, if the guy did a split step and moved in, the TKD guy could have been f'd. Of course that's a big if. The BIG THING to remember when watching these videos of two different styles in combat is that you're not going to take advantage of an "acrobatic" move's weakness if you don't know what it is. If someone pulls some whacked move on you it's a big gamble to see an "opportunity" and move in - what if it's a trick? I just love it in the rare instance when a guy gets smacked with a spinning backfist in MMA fights - I know they never saw that coming.
Summary: Some TKD moves have great potential as striking hits. But some of TKD's great speed knockout moves just don't have the weight behind them to do real damage against a fortified opponent. TKD's KO roundhouse with a lot of weight put behind it is great of course - but you already know that because you do see some high roundhouse kicks to the head being thrown in Pride and UFC. In TUF season 2, Josh blocked one of Melvin's high roundhouses but it still broke his arm!
Granted you have six pack abs and super core strength, a roundhouse thrown with 100 percent of your WHOLE body strength whipped 180 degrees, I'll bet that's the most damaging move in terms of force delivered a person can deliver. And indeed the MT roundhouse is just that, and very devastating. But too bad they don't do as much damage kicking tree trunk legs.
And here's another thing: some moves wil absolutely f..k up a beginner so people will get fooled into thinking "O this move is so great" but in reality it's only great against people who can't defend against it. But then again the same can be said of all movements. I mean you see so many times a guy just getting out of an armbar for example, because the other wrapped his legs around his head and he knows he's about to get armbarred. The arm bar fails since the "victim" was able to remain in a body position to apply maximum force to resist the submission.
Last edited by verc; Nov 30, 2005 at 05:17 PM.
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Originally Posted by bluewrx82
so which one do you guys think would be more effective for self defense? taekwondo or muay thai?
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Originally Posted by wrx02r
wow. that muay thai actually got hit by a triple flying kick thing in the air, i use that move in tekken with hwaorang but didn't think it would actually work in real life!!!
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Originally Posted by [W5]IntoTheWRX
my vote goes to muay thai. right now i think that TKD has turned into a "sport" with their no elbows, head gears, little kid classes, breaking boards, etc. muay thai is definetly more brutal. TKD, Kung fu, Karate can also be bruta such as aiming for the eyes, nuts, bone breaking moves but been turned into a sport and people dont see it for killing anymore.
muay thai if you want to kill
TKD if you want to be in a boardbreaking sport
sounds good
Originally Posted by Choku Dori
I agree that in this day and age, it's about the fighter more than the style.
My analysis of the clip is that we have a fairly skilled TKD practitioner (at least in terms of physical and technical ability) facing off against a shoddy Muay Thai practitioner. The Muay Thai fighter obviously has little ring experience as apparent in the way he turns his head away and retreats, and in the way that he just doesn't do anything in terms of offense OR defense. The TKD fighter seems to have more ring experience and knows he's facing a weaker opponent as is apparent in his physicial "attitude" (eg hands-down stance, showy techniques, etc.). But one thing that I noticed is that the TKD fighter's kicks while accurate seem to lack power. A good hard kick to the head is usually enough to put someone out cold, and here our hapless little Muay Thai fighter has taken at least 3 to the head and yet is still scampering around.
Conclusion: Here, TKD fighter has more experience than the Muay Thai fighter. Poor overall representation of the styles facing off. My 2 cents.
P.S. Although my personal style is Muay Thai, I've always been a real fan of TKD and believe that with a little bit of modernization TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. TKD is a near perfection of kicking techniques IMHO and if it could incorporate knees and a Thai style roundhouse with its standard speedy roundhouse, TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. With the addition of more upper body techniques (eg punching, elbowing, etc.) and clinching, it'd be a great standup style. But then again, it wouldn't really be TKD anymore huh? Just thinking out loud
My analysis of the clip is that we have a fairly skilled TKD practitioner (at least in terms of physical and technical ability) facing off against a shoddy Muay Thai practitioner. The Muay Thai fighter obviously has little ring experience as apparent in the way he turns his head away and retreats, and in the way that he just doesn't do anything in terms of offense OR defense. The TKD fighter seems to have more ring experience and knows he's facing a weaker opponent as is apparent in his physicial "attitude" (eg hands-down stance, showy techniques, etc.). But one thing that I noticed is that the TKD fighter's kicks while accurate seem to lack power. A good hard kick to the head is usually enough to put someone out cold, and here our hapless little Muay Thai fighter has taken at least 3 to the head and yet is still scampering around.
Conclusion: Here, TKD fighter has more experience than the Muay Thai fighter. Poor overall representation of the styles facing off. My 2 cents.
P.S. Although my personal style is Muay Thai, I've always been a real fan of TKD and believe that with a little bit of modernization TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. TKD is a near perfection of kicking techniques IMHO and if it could incorporate knees and a Thai style roundhouse with its standard speedy roundhouse, TKD can be a real force to be reckoned with. With the addition of more upper body techniques (eg punching, elbowing, etc.) and clinching, it'd be a great standup style. But then again, it wouldn't really be TKD anymore huh? Just thinking out loud
You pretty much have it spot on,(coming from a tkd guy)
I'd like to see them fight wearing similar attire. ie. both wearing gis' or shorts. Either the guy is totally unexperienced in the ring, or he got worked in rounds prior and the tkd dude is just having fun. Only an idiot would fight like that in any fight other than kyorugi. There are many different forms of tkd, it just so happens that the most popular one happens to be the most marketable.
:rotfl:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52949&q=terada
Last edited by VIBEELEVEN; Dec 1, 2005 at 01:22 PM.
Originally Posted by Choku Dori
Time to start some controversy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59&q=muay+thai
Keep in mind that I do Muay Thai myself, and I'll keep my thoughts on this video to myself for a bit
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59&q=muay+thai
Keep in mind that I do Muay Thai myself, and I'll keep my thoughts on this video to myself for a bit
one sided fight or????
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There are older Korean styles that many don't really practice any more. The more traditional styles like Su Bak Do look alot like Muy Thai. Olympic Tae Kwon Do is not really street fighting any more than UFC is. Grappling is cool and all, but going to ground? I can't think of a more vulnerable position. Being a martial arts practioner with years of pracitce and a black belt in TKD but having dabbled in everying I must say that high kicks aren't really street fighting but one good spinning hook kick will knock anyone out.
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one good spinning hook kick will knock anyone out
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Originally Posted by hatchbuilder
There are older Korean styles that many don't really practice any more. The more traditional styles like Su Bak Do look alot like Muy Thai. Olympic Tae Kwon Do is not really street fighting any more than UFC is. Grappling is cool and all, but going to ground? I can't think of a more vulnerable position. Being a martial arts practioner with years of pracitce and a black belt in TKD but having dabbled in everying I must say that high kicks aren't really street fighting but one good spinning hook kick will knock anyone out.
As for spinning kicks, I can see a spinning back kick to the solarplexus knocking the wind out of someone, but I'm too scared to wheel around like that in a fight
As for the groundfighting, what if you're the one that's pulled down to the ground? Knowing anything from that position is better than not knowing anything right? Even if it's just how to get back up on your feet again with getting pounded right?
Just my 2 cents on all topics
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