Thur Takin Our Jaabs!
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Did you read the article? It states, in very plain English, that we will NOT have enough workers to fill all the jobs that will exist in the future of our growing economy UNLESS we allow and encourage immigrants to come here to work. If the economy can't be supported by the proper number of workers, all wages will crash with the economy.
What the hell is up with this zealous xenaphobia nowadays? I can elicit responses from people who don't even post here just by suggesting that immigrants are good for our economy...wow.
What the hell is up with this zealous xenaphobia nowadays? I can elicit responses from people who don't even post here just by suggesting that immigrants are good for our economy...wow.
Being a 1st Gen American-born citizen, I'm all for legal immigration.
Please re-read the article.
Originally Posted by From Article
Chamber President and CEO Thomas Donohue, at a news conference outlining business prospects in 2006, said the country is ill-prepared to deal with the impending retirement of 77 million baby boomers.
"We have yet to secure an adequate supply of working taxpayers to run a growing economy and support an explosion of retirees," he said in his organization's report on the state of U.S. business....
...He said the Chamber opposed a bill passed by the House in December, which tightens border security and requires employers to verify the legal status of workers but does not address the guest worker issue.
"We have yet to secure an adequate supply of working taxpayers to run a growing economy and support an explosion of retirees," he said in his organization's report on the state of U.S. business....
...He said the Chamber opposed a bill passed by the House in December, which tightens border security and requires employers to verify the legal status of workers but does not address the guest worker issue.
Sorry, if he doesn't support stricter border policies, he's an idiot
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...there was no personal attack there...sorry if I offended you, I really didn't mean to at all.
Most people who are against illegal immigration want to kick out the illegals that are here. This article suggests to me that we should make illegals already here legal (so they pay taxes, etc) AND allow more people to immigrate legally (this will help our economy through giving us the workers we need as well as making illegal immigration less of a problem). The argument that 'immigrants are taking American's jobs' is total propaganda BS.
I don't know why you told me to reread the article that I posted...I understand that "the country is ill-prepared to deal with the impending retirement of 77 million baby boomers."...that's why we need immigrant workers!! When people retire, you have to hire new (younger) people to replace them...the article says we don't have enough to replace them...so what better way to deal with that than to let immigrants work. Being a 1st gen legal immigrant, I would think you could see that point...since I assume your parents joined the American work force and you will or already are a part of the American work force.
And the reason this guy and the Chamber of Commerce didn't like that bill about border control is because it didn't include anything about a guest worker program...which would reduce the # of illegals AND increase our labor pool. So he wants to wait until a border bill comes up that will not only stop illegals, but utilize the fact that we need labor in order to reduce the number of illegal people coming in and increase the # of legal people coming in. He DOES support stricter border policies...just not without allowing more legals in for work purposes.
Before telling me to reread things, I suggest you try and understand them first. And don't be so sensitive...
Most people who are against illegal immigration want to kick out the illegals that are here. This article suggests to me that we should make illegals already here legal (so they pay taxes, etc) AND allow more people to immigrate legally (this will help our economy through giving us the workers we need as well as making illegal immigration less of a problem). The argument that 'immigrants are taking American's jobs' is total propaganda BS.
I don't know why you told me to reread the article that I posted...I understand that "the country is ill-prepared to deal with the impending retirement of 77 million baby boomers."...that's why we need immigrant workers!! When people retire, you have to hire new (younger) people to replace them...the article says we don't have enough to replace them...so what better way to deal with that than to let immigrants work. Being a 1st gen legal immigrant, I would think you could see that point...since I assume your parents joined the American work force and you will or already are a part of the American work force.
And the reason this guy and the Chamber of Commerce didn't like that bill about border control is because it didn't include anything about a guest worker program...which would reduce the # of illegals AND increase our labor pool. So he wants to wait until a border bill comes up that will not only stop illegals, but utilize the fact that we need labor in order to reduce the number of illegal people coming in and increase the # of legal people coming in. He DOES support stricter border policies...just not without allowing more legals in for work purposes.
Before telling me to reread things, I suggest you try and understand them first. And don't be so sensitive...
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Ahahhaha yeah. I see how you avoided my 1:1 about a 65 year old being equivalent to a new immigrant grad... very wise and misleading of you!
Originally Posted by HellaDumb
If 70 million old inefficient people retiring makes you worry about the workforce, then you have serious problems. This article has an agenda.
The article does have an agenda...disseminating the words of the Chamber of Commerce of the US to the population. I think you ment to say that the Chamber of Commerce has an agenda...and I agree with that as well...they want the US economy to survive the retirement of the baby boomers.
Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Oh, and by the way, I'm no xenophobe... I happen to like diversity. I think America should stay diverse, rather than becoming a third world nation with self-segregating ethnic populations. That's where we're headed with such insane levels of immigration.
BTW, it's not like I love the Chamber of Commerce...they want to drill in Alaska, and generally they support very conservative legislation. But they have it right on this one...you anti-immigration people are just plain wrong.
Last edited by MVWRX; Jan 5, 2006 at 04:00 PM.
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
I don't mean to be overly harsh, but are you -edited to be nice-?
It states that 77m will retire, but it DOES NOT address the productivity effects of technology or our untapped labor pool that could step up to the plate.
It states that 77m will retire, but it DOES NOT address the productivity effects of technology or our untapped labor pool that could step up to the plate.
You said:
Originally Posted by dissembling bahstard
These articles fail to address the fact that we have enough human resources here to fill these jobs if we put up an imaginary wall around the U.S.
But I pointed out that even if every unemployed person were able to be employed we'd still have a deficit of around 60m workers when the boomers retire.
hella=stuck on stupid.
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This whole argument is fallacious, and just like how "they" said we'd run out of oil by the year 2000. What always proves these naysayers wrong? Technology, innovation, and human adaptation!
While I mentioned the unemployed, I only meant that a small portion of those currently filing for unemployment actually want to work, while many just milk the system. If you know anything about unemployment statistics, they DO NOT capture the amount of potential workers in this nation that are willing to work or have low paying unskilled jobs, workers that would be willing to fill better jobs given the proper opportunity.
The issue of the article was TAXES, was it not? Immigration was the posed solution, but there are other answers. Taxing "guest workers" would barely have an effect, but moving the U.S. workforce up the ladder through education and re-training would result in higher salaries and hence more taxes paid.
Immigration creates more local pollution, overcrowding, inflated property values, impacted school programs, etc, and hence many native citizens lose out.
Most importantly, in a global economy, U.S. incomes may have to be reduced to compete globally, or in-spite-of a large local workforce, our jobs will go overseas. The U.S. needs to find ways to cut costs and reduce spending to lower our dependency on a decreasing tax base. Or, we can just rape the rich tax base.
While I mentioned the unemployed, I only meant that a small portion of those currently filing for unemployment actually want to work, while many just milk the system. If you know anything about unemployment statistics, they DO NOT capture the amount of potential workers in this nation that are willing to work or have low paying unskilled jobs, workers that would be willing to fill better jobs given the proper opportunity.
The issue of the article was TAXES, was it not? Immigration was the posed solution, but there are other answers. Taxing "guest workers" would barely have an effect, but moving the U.S. workforce up the ladder through education and re-training would result in higher salaries and hence more taxes paid.
Immigration creates more local pollution, overcrowding, inflated property values, impacted school programs, etc, and hence many native citizens lose out.
Most importantly, in a global economy, U.S. incomes may have to be reduced to compete globally, or in-spite-of a large local workforce, our jobs will go overseas. The U.S. needs to find ways to cut costs and reduce spending to lower our dependency on a decreasing tax base. Or, we can just rape the rich tax base.
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Originally Posted by LiberalsHateAmerica
This whole argument is fallacious, and just like how "they" said we'd run out of oil by the year 2000. What always proves these naysayers wrong? Technology, innovation, and human adaptation!
While I mentioned the unemployed, I only meant that a small portion of those currently filing for unemployment actually want to work, while many just milk the system. If you know anything about unemployment statistics, they DO NOT capture the amount of potential workers in this nation that are willing to work or have low paying unskilled jobs, workers that would be willing to fill better jobs given the proper opportunity.
The issue of the article was TAXES, was it not? Immigration was the posed solution, but there are other answers. Taxing "guest workers" would barely have an effect, but moving the U.S. workforce up the ladder through education and re-training would result in higher salaries and hence more taxes paid.
Immigration creates more local pollution, overcrowding, inflated property values, impacted school programs, etc, and hence many native citizens lose out.
Most importantly, in a global economy, U.S. incomes may have to be reduced to compete globally, or in-spite-of a large local workforce, our jobs will go overseas. The U.S. needs to find ways to cut costs and reduce spending to lower our dependency on a decreasing tax base. Or, we can just rape the rich tax base.
While I mentioned the unemployed, I only meant that a small portion of those currently filing for unemployment actually want to work, while many just milk the system. If you know anything about unemployment statistics, they DO NOT capture the amount of potential workers in this nation that are willing to work or have low paying unskilled jobs, workers that would be willing to fill better jobs given the proper opportunity.
The issue of the article was TAXES, was it not? Immigration was the posed solution, but there are other answers. Taxing "guest workers" would barely have an effect, but moving the U.S. workforce up the ladder through education and re-training would result in higher salaries and hence more taxes paid.
Immigration creates more local pollution, overcrowding, inflated property values, impacted school programs, etc, and hence many native citizens lose out.
Most importantly, in a global economy, U.S. incomes may have to be reduced to compete globally, or in-spite-of a large local workforce, our jobs will go overseas. The U.S. needs to find ways to cut costs and reduce spending to lower our dependency on a decreasing tax base. Or, we can just rape the rich tax base.
Last edited by HellaDumb; Jan 6, 2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by SubyN00by
you guys should just cut the arguing out, and all go have mad ghey sex in the middle of the town with the rest of the men folk...
That way they won't TAKE OUR JAAABS!!!
Finally someone referenced the south park reference...
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Originally Posted by HellaDumb
Taxing "guest workers" would barely have an effect
Where the hell do you get stuff like this. Total conjucture...and you think it's part of a well written diatribe? You really need to expose yourself to things that are actually well written; good writting makes clear deliniations between fact and conjucture (unlike the stuff you write), and when facts are involved they give where a fact was taken from.
Your opinion is that taxing guest workers would barely have an effect. But then in other threads you talk about what a burdon guest workers and illegals (who would become guest workers) are on the system because of our 'insane levels of immigration'. See what I'm saying? You're not even internally coherent in your arguments. Get over yourself.
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
You must be really flexible...you suck your own d*** every single day...
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Originally Posted by MVWRX
Where the hell do you get stuff like this. Get over yourself.
How much money does would it cost to process all the paperwork? Want to have a guess?
Make sense, or do I need to post some random link to make you feel better about it?
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From: UCIrvine
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You don't even know what you're talking about...
http://www.fairmark.com/begin/bracket.htm
Scroll to the bottom. Now pretend you make 5K a year (too low to live on in most places even, so it's a conservative estimate of a low income...)
Tax= $0 + 10% of anything over 0$. So that would be 10% of 5K, or $500. Which is not $0.
Not to mention that if illegals working in this country were made legal as guest workers, their employers would have to pay them the legal minimum wage which would probably put them in an even higher tax bracket.
http://www.fairmark.com/begin/bracket.htm
Scroll to the bottom. Now pretend you make 5K a year (too low to live on in most places even, so it's a conservative estimate of a low income...)
Tax= $0 + 10% of anything over 0$. So that would be 10% of 5K, or $500. Which is not $0.
Not to mention that if illegals working in this country were made legal as guest workers, their employers would have to pay them the legal minimum wage which would probably put them in an even higher tax bracket.
Last edited by MVWRX; Jan 6, 2006 at 01:26 PM.