Obama Smearing by Fox
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I understand what you are getting at, though. But, when was the last time you saw a Muslim outside of the middle east lop off anyone's head?
When was the last time you saw me lop someone's head off because they were a different religion?
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There isn't oppression of women in Mormonism?
I understand what you are getting at, though. But, when was the last time you saw a Muslim outside of the middle east lop off anyone's head?
When was the last time you saw me lop someone's head off because they were a different religion?
I understand what you are getting at, though. But, when was the last time you saw a Muslim outside of the middle east lop off anyone's head?
When was the last time you saw me lop someone's head off because they were a different religion?
Four Sudanese men accused of killing a U.S. aid worker funded the murder with a donation from a Saudi Arabian man and money left over from a failed bomb plot, the Sudanese police's chief investigator told a court on Monday.
Shall I continue?
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Why are we talking about this as it has no bearing on Obama and the election? He has been proven to NOT be a muslim multiple times. Don't like him for his stance on Guns, or school vouchers or taxes but don't bag on him for being a muslim because HE's NOT!!!
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if he is Muslim, it would not make me dislike him any more then I already do, religion should not be that big of a deal, but my question still remains on why he thinks he needs to cover it up?
I think that it says a lot, if he is Muslim (which has not been proven for sure, he even slipped and said "his Muslim faith" and needed to be corrected) why does he feel the need to constantly lie about it?
if he is Muslim, it would not make me dislike him any more then I already do, religion should not be that big of a deal, but my question still remains on why he thinks he needs to cover it up?
if he is Muslim, it would not make me dislike him any more then I already do, religion should not be that big of a deal, but my question still remains on why he thinks he needs to cover it up?
He's not Muslim. What is he covering up?My name is Ryan. Am I secretly Irish, but hiding it from all the people who don't like Irish people?
There is not some secret plot to get him elected. When I go to the musjid, they don't tell me, "Shhhhh... don't tell anyone, but Barak is really a Muslim. All the Muslims know it, but we are hiding it from all the non-believers to get him elected, and then... MMMMMMMMoooooooooooooooooahahahahahha!!! Muslim prayer at schooooooooooooollll!!!"
The Bushies have sure done a good job at making everyone paranoid.
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Why he needs to cover it up? He's not Muslim. What is he covering up?
My name is Ryan. Am I secretly Irish, but hiding it from all the people who don't like Irish people?
There is not some secret plot to get him elected. When I go to the musjid, they don't tell me, "Shhhhh... don't tell anyone, but Barak is really a Muslim. All the Muslims know it, but we are hiding it from all the non-believers to get him elected, and then... MMMMMMMMoooooooooooooooooahahahahahha!!! Muslim prayer at schooooooooooooollll!!!"
The Bushies have sure done a good job at making everyone paranoid.
He's not Muslim. What is he covering up?My name is Ryan. Am I secretly Irish, but hiding it from all the people who don't like Irish people?
There is not some secret plot to get him elected. When I go to the musjid, they don't tell me, "Shhhhh... don't tell anyone, but Barak is really a Muslim. All the Muslims know it, but we are hiding it from all the non-believers to get him elected, and then... MMMMMMMMoooooooooooooooooahahahahahha!!! Muslim prayer at schooooooooooooollll!!!"
The Bushies have sure done a good job at making everyone paranoid.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5354
Originally Posted by Daniel Pipes via frontpagenews.com
In a recent analysis, "Was Barack Obama a Muslim?" I surveyed available evidence and found it suggests "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." In response, David Brock's organization, Media Matters for America (MMfA), which calls itself a "progressive research and information center dedicated to comprehensively monitoring, analyzing, and correcting conservative misinformation in the U.S. media," has criticized one of my sources of information.
MMfA contends in "Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood," that "key aspects" of a March 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times article I quoted were later challenged by another newspaper account, "History of schooling distorted," by Kim Barker in the Chicago Tribune on March 25.
Falsehood? That's a strong word.
To assess MMfA's claim, let's review its preferred article and examine what Barker has to say on four topics related to Obama's Indonesian years, 1967-71:
1. His attendance at a Catholic school;
2. His attendance at a public school;
3. His step-father, Lolo Soetoro; and
4. His friend, Zulfan Adi.
To start with, about the Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, which Obama attended 1967-70 (words in square brackets are added by me):
Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades. At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said [Israella Pareira] Darmawan, Obama's former [1st-grade] teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.
The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia [including by the Los Angeles Times], also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.
Barack Obama with his public school classmates in Indonesia.
About Obama's time at a public elementary school, 1970-71, variously known as the Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1 or the Basuki school, Barker writes:
When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.
During a recent visit to this public school, Barker found that
Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard. "The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity," said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. "And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It's always been like that."
About Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro and his religiosity, Barker writes:
In their first neighborhood, Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said. But Soetoro usually was too busy working, first for the Indonesian army and later for a Western oil company. "Sometimes Lolo went to the mosque to pray, but he rarely socialized with people," said Fermina Katarina Sinaga, Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family. "Rarely, Barry [a nickname for Barack] went to the mosque with Lolo."
Barker learned from his friends and family that Lolo Soetoro, who died in 1987, was "much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim" and "hardly the image of a pious Muslim."
His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. "He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family," Trisulo recalled.
As for Zulfan Adi, cited in the Los Angeles Times piece:
Zulfan Adi, a former neighborhood playmate of Obama's who has been cited in news reports as saying Obama regularly attended Friday prayers with Soetoro, told the Tribune he was not certain about that when pressed about his recollections. He only knew Obama for a few months, during 1970, when his family moved to the neighborhood.
Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:
* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.
All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."
Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.
Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.
MMfA contends in "Daniel Pipes relied on disputed LA Times article to revive Obama-Muslim falsehood," that "key aspects" of a March 16, 2007, Los Angeles Times article I quoted were later challenged by another newspaper account, "History of schooling distorted," by Kim Barker in the Chicago Tribune on March 25.
Falsehood? That's a strong word.
To assess MMfA's claim, let's review its preferred article and examine what Barker has to say on four topics related to Obama's Indonesian years, 1967-71:
1. His attendance at a Catholic school;
2. His attendance at a public school;
3. His step-father, Lolo Soetoro; and
4. His friend, Zulfan Adi.
To start with, about the Catholic school, Fransiskus Strada Asisia, which Obama attended 1967-70 (words in square brackets are added by me):
Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia, despite being listed as a Muslim on the registration form for the Catholic school, Strada Asisia, where he attended 1st through 3rd grades. At the time, the school most likely registered children based on the religion of their fathers, said [Israella Pareira] Darmawan, Obama's former [1st-grade] teacher. Because Soetoro was a Muslim, Obama was listed as a Muslim, she said.
The enrollment form from the Catholic school, which has been cited as evidence that Obama was a Muslim in Indonesia [including by the Los Angeles Times], also was rife with errors. It listed Obama as an Indonesian, listed his previous school incorrectly and failed to list his mother, Ann, at all.
Barack Obama with his public school classmates in Indonesia.
About Obama's time at a public elementary school, 1970-71, variously known as the Sekolah Dasar Nasional Menteng No. 1 or the Basuki school, Barker writes:
When Obama attended 4th grade in 1971, Muslim children spent two hours a week studying Islam, and Christian children spent those two hours learning about the Christian religion.
During a recent visit to this public school, Barker found that
Weekly religious classes are required for all students, whether Muslims, Christians or Hindus, under the government curriculum. A new shiny mosque is in the corner of the courtyard. "The Muslims learn about Islam, prayer and religious activity," said Hardi Priyono, the vice principal for curriculum. "And for the Christians, during the religious class, they also have a special room teaching Christianity. It's always been like that."
About Obama's step-father, Lolo Soetoro and his religiosity, Barker writes:
In their first neighborhood, Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said. But Soetoro usually was too busy working, first for the Indonesian army and later for a Western oil company. "Sometimes Lolo went to the mosque to pray, but he rarely socialized with people," said Fermina Katarina Sinaga, Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family. "Rarely, Barry [a nickname for Barack] went to the mosque with Lolo."
Barker learned from his friends and family that Lolo Soetoro, who died in 1987, was "much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim" and "hardly the image of a pious Muslim."
His nephew, Sonny Trisulo, 49, said Soetoro always liked women and alcohol. One of his health problems was a failing liver. "He loved drinking, was a smart and warm person, the naughtiest one in the family," Trisulo recalled.
As for Zulfan Adi, cited in the Los Angeles Times piece:
Zulfan Adi, a former neighborhood playmate of Obama's who has been cited in news reports as saying Obama regularly attended Friday prayers with Soetoro, told the Tribune he was not certain about that when pressed about his recollections. He only knew Obama for a few months, during 1970, when his family moved to the neighborhood.
Does any of the above information from the Chicago Tribune article refute my analysis, as MMfA contends? It raises questions about two details in the Los Angeles Times account (the accuracy of the Catholic school's registration form and the reliability of Zulfan Adi as a source on Obama). But on the larger issue of Obama's religious practices during his Jakarta years, it confirms the Times account. Note in particular three excerpts from Barker's article:
* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.
All this matters, for if Obama once was a Muslim, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed. Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
In sum: Obama was an irregularly practicing Muslim who rarely or occasionally prayed with his step-father in a mosque. This precisely substantiates my statement that he "for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father."
Therefore, what MMfA calls the "Obama-Muslim falsehood" is in fact confirmed by both articles as truthful and accurate.
Calling this a falsehood is in itself a falsehood.
its not paranoia, its just me wondering why he needs to lie about it. I don't care if he is, I just don't like the fact that he feels he needs to lie about his religion (or in the linked article below with cited references that he used to be an irregularly practicing Muslim) to be liked in the US.
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5354
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5354
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its Ok Ryan, let the big people vote, we will take care of everything
I guess I'm just not reading that article close enough. So wait, he lied about going to Islamic school? Or is it that he lied about his father and step father being Muslim? Or is he lying when he says he's Christian?
I didn't see in that article where it said that Obama said anything. The guy in the article said, "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." I don't see where Obama refutes any of this.
I went to church when I was young. Now I am Muslim. Does that mean I am not Muslim, but in fact Christian but lying about it?
I didn't see in that article where it said that Obama said anything. The guy in the article said, "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." I don't see where Obama refutes any of this.
I went to church when I was young. Now I am Muslim. Does that mean I am not Muslim, but in fact Christian but lying about it?
BanHammer™
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I guess I'm just not reading that article close enough. So wait, he lied about going to Islamic school? Or is it that he lied about his father and step father being Muslim? Or is he lying when he says he's Christian?
I didn't see in that article where it said that Obama said anything. The guy in the article said, "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." I don't see where Obama refutes any of this.
I went to church when I was young. Now I am Muslim. Does that mean I am not Muslim, but in fact Christian but lying about it?
I didn't see in that article where it said that Obama said anything. The guy in the article said, "Obama was born a Muslim to a non-practicing Muslim father and for some years had a reasonably Muslim upbringing under the auspices of his Indonesian step-father." I don't see where Obama refutes any of this.
I went to church when I was young. Now I am Muslim. Does that mean I am not Muslim, but in fact Christian but lying about it?
* "Interviews with dozens of former classmates, teachers, neighbors and friends show that Obama was not a regular practicing Muslim when he was in Indonesia" – implying he was an irregularly practicing Muslim.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.
* "Obama occasionally followed his stepfather to the mosque for Friday prayers, a few neighbors said" – confirming that he did pray in the mosque.
* "Obama's 3rd-grade teacher at the Catholic school, who lived near the family [said that] ‘Rarely, Barry went to the mosque with Lolo'" – confirming that Obama attended mosque services.
Does this conclude that at one point that he practiced the Muslim religion? Yes
so why does he have to cover up his past about being a Muslim at one point in his life?
BanHammer™
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you know, honestly at this point, I don't really care who wins.
I don't think the country can get put into the ****ter any more then it already is, and neither of these two candidates can make any difference.
I don't think the country can get put into the ****ter any more then it already is, and neither of these two candidates can make any difference.
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